Ron

Then everyone should open close to the same altitude and have each person plan on landing in WL order. I have done this on 12 ways with a mix of canopies from Velos to Star Trac II's. It *can* be done if people are willing to do it, or are forced to do it. Further, assigned landing areas could be given to each group in the plane... Just like we do on 100+ ways with sectors. The answers to avoiding canopy collisions are already out there. 1. LOOK! 2. High Performance landing areas. 3. Stack the landings. 4. Separate landing zones for each group. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Uh, only if you think the 'best' means they do not have the required maintenance done and got fined 600K+ for the lack of maintenance. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Fact is that FFE did once already EXACTLY what they are trying to do now. Make no mistake, I think it is a vindictive move now.... But it was no nicer back then. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Phil..... Get a life. YISkyDive.... Not the smartest thing... But you already know that. I don't really see a problem. He has a "D" license, pulled 2kish, had a malfunction, handled the mal, landed out in a field. I'd say you did pretty well.... Except when an AFF student is spinning, you hook the *trailing* leg, not the leading leg Better would have been to pull 5-6 seconds after the student... But that is 'best practice', I saw no violation in the video. He did nothing 'wrong'. He could have done things better.... But he did nothing wrong. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It should be noted that it works great only if you are doing solos. When in traffic it is MUCH more important to look around than get the perfect swoop. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Freefall separation is secondary to getting out of the plane fast. Do as the pilot says. Unless he gives you other instruction, get out as fast as you can. Once in freefall, I like to build a big star if possible. It gets everyone together. I have been in a DC3 with an engine out. The pilot brought it around at 10k and told us to exit as normal. I have been in a Queen Air with an engine out and the pilot told us to get out without putting floaters out. We built a star with the whole load. I have been in a Cessna 185 with an engine out and the pilot told us to get out as fast as possible. We were at 4 so we just pulled out the door including the AFF I have been in a porter with a trim running wild. The pilot told us to get out as fast as we could. We just pulled out the door including the AFF students. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I disagree... the jumper in question put the velcro together and had the bridle routed correctly. Fact is that sometimes crazy things that are 1/million happen. And due to that you cannot claim that "Pilot chute in tows ARE preventable" you could claim that MOST are, but that was not the claim that was made. And again, you could claim that MOST malfunctions are preventable * bad packing * bad maintenance * bad body position * bad gear selection "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

From the data in just this one poll, that seems to be a supported statement. I would be very interested in the real numbers of people who had an Argus and cannot afford another AAD that refuse to jump. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You started it in this thread, don't blame me for calling you on it as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I'd say most, but not all. I saw one where the pin punched through the bridle.... Never saw that coming and there was nothing we could have imagined to prevent it. Of course I would say most malfunctions are avoidable, but not all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Both. It is also more common with younger jumpers than with people that have been around a long time. But I still have more positive feelings for DZ's that I have been a local at.... It most likely has to do with the benefits being a local can normally provide... and knowing the whole story as opposed to just a section of it. But it is pretty common to defend your friends and some people think of a DZ as a friend. So yes, it is normal and yes it is more common at certain DZ's That is kinda a bad example to use.... There is a long and history between the three DZ's. But, it is not uncommon for the DZO of DeLand to be flying jumpers in Zhills..... So it is pretty clear there is no bad blood between ZHills and DeLand. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Incorrect, it (might) cut a loop. It will not pull for them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Only if you have an AAD. And don't you agree that people should plan on pulling handles and not rely on an AAD to pull for them? So: If you do not think that people should just wait for an AAD to pull for them. Then it is not incorrect to say that you are dead unless you perform correctly.... And the car analogy would only work on a course that ends with a brick wall and your car only has two speeds: full and brake. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

They all had plenty of warning... they asked me to be on that jump and I said there was no way in hell I would do it because of the risk. I like AAD's I don't like that people do not avoid the dangerous situations in the first place. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Doing the thing because you have an AAD is stupid. And if you would do the more dangerous thing that you should really just avoid IS stupid and allowing the AAD to run your decision. But hey, I do not expect you to admit that. And what the hell would I know about skydiving anyway? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Most DZ's I have worked at have staff rates Most staff is the same... I have seen office staff get a better rate than the jumping staff. Not where I work now, but at other places I have worked, yes. No. I'd bet the number of staff jumps made do not really account for much and that most staff rates are above or at break even for the slot. Don't think I should say my current discount... But it has normally been the break even point for a full plane load. That number has adjusted based on costs. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your earlier comments say otherwise.... But hey, I don't know why you are trying to prove yourself to some guy you don't know. You will do more dangerous things because you have an AAD. I avoid doing the dangerous things AND have AAD. Significant difference, but I do not expect you to admit that. Have fun, this has gotten old. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This is EXACTLY the answer he was trying to ignore and prompted his 'question'. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, that you will do more dangerous things when you have an AAD that you would without it. The step that I do that you ignore is trying to PREVENT the accident by making choices to avoid the situation. As for my plan if I get knocked out... Does not matter what my 'plan' is... I would not be awake and therefore not able to execute any plan. So it is a silly question that does not answer jack. My plan is to avoid dangerous situations first, then have an AAD in the 1 in 10 chance a 'save' was actually due to being knocked out. The difference is I use good judgement to avoid situations where you use an AAD to go it more dangerous situations. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Clearly that is all you want to hear, and that is why it is all you hear. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I am sure. But it has never been an issue before. I could I've fixed it, I half assed fixed it. I should have popped the pin and done just like you suggested. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

To quote you: So instead of avoiding the danger, you decided to get an AAD and do them anyway. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oooh, I have a good one from yesterday. Yes, I know I am an idiot. So, I get to the DZ and do a gear check. When checking my main pin I see that I do not have color showing in my window. So I actually pull the pilot chute out and check to see if it is cocked. I find that it is 'mostly' cocked and it does inflate. I pull the apex and try to cock it a bit more. But I did not want to close the rig again, so I didn't pop the pin and give it a proper cocking. I was on an AFF L1 and the student did OK. They pulled about 5.5 and I was main, so I left once the students PC was out and the main bag launched. I tracked about 6 seconds and pulled.... Of course, nothing. I thought: * Huh? * Crap. * I have plenty of Altitude/time * Crap! * I HATE pilot chute in tow malfunctions.... Really. * Didn't we just discuss this on DZ.com? * I guess I should have popped the pin and re-cocked the PC * Well, I guess I better do something. All that took honestly a few seconds, but I pulled above 4 so I had plenty of time. I did a few tricks to try and get the pin to pop (hit the rig, rolled left and right, tried to grab the bridle). Nothing seemed to work so it came time to stop the skydive. Funny thing, I keep saying that I will just pull the reserve and I always imagined that I would do a modified reserve pull and use my right hand for stability.... Nope. BOTH hands went to my handles. I thought: * I HATE pilot chute in tow malfunctions. * I guess I should have actually re-cocked the PC. * Why did I grab my cutaway, I am not going to pull it? * Hey, what was that? Sweet, my bag launched!!!! I was open above 2k. Managed to get back and get a 360 hook. But if I had pulled at my normal altitude, if the student have delayed, if this had been a fun jump..... I would have pulled my reserve and had to face my worst malfunction situation. My next jump? A tandem, so I basically went from a PC in tow: Bad, to PC in tow: planned. I had to sit and think about the situation at the end of the day. I got complacent. I am sure that I had done the same basic thing before, but this time it didn't work like normal. Lesson: 1. Pilot chutes are an awful a lot like a woman and pregnancy. They either are, or they are not.... there is no 'sorta'. 2. Knowing you could have an issue and going anyway is stupid. 3. Half fixes are full stupid. Learn from my stupidity. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Because you said you would not do the big WS jumps without the AAD, but will with it. Not a difficult concept: 1. Without the AAD you would avoid the situation. 2. With the AAD you will not. Windsor said it best... An AAD is like carrying a handgun. Could be really great to have if you are in a bad place. But if you go to the bad place because you have a handgun.... you are an idiot. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is nothing to prevent the AAD makers from raising the firing altitudes. There is nothing to prevent DZ's from raising their min pull altitudes. There is nothing to prevent individuals from raising their personal pull altitudes. Someone already mentioned CYPRES can adjust your altitude for you if you ask. So everything you want could be done without forcing everyone else to change. And the point still stands... When do you stop? Having AAD's fire at 1500 feet just has to be safer than 1000 feet. I mean you could fly a normal pattern right? And most people are pulling at 3k anyway right? An AAD is a backup, yet more and more I see people wanting to change how they skydive to make the AAD happier. Some do it, like you, to try to make things safer.... Others do it so they can do more dangerous things. AAD's are a last ditch hail Mary. They seem to be working pretty well for that. No, they will not save everyone, but they have been saving MOST people. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334