Ron

Short answer: Yes. Longer answer: Most likely yes, but it depends on a BUNCH of factors. Density altitude, exp, type of canopy, currency, and your attitude all play into it. And each of those factors pay with and against each other. For example I knew a guy that was current as hell and got a canopy that was maybe a bit more than he needed. Well, then he got uncurrent and the canopy WAS more than he needed when he wanted to jump again. The fear of the canopy made coming back suck for him. His ego would not let him upsize. He eventually quit. So yes, 1.2 is too high in most cases. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I posted there as "crater bait". But I never got into it, just used it to get info about incidents. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have already shown you to be wrong. You took things and read only what you WANTED to read. Then you started the personal BS... If that is the best you can do, and I suspect it is... Then I am done wasting my time with you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, that might be what you WANTED to read. But I said that accidents were higher in the last few years. I don't expect you to admit you were wrong however. You claimed as long as other people don't get hurt... Just because you brought it up does not mean I can't use it. Cite my sources??? Ok dz.com fatality database. And knowing many of the people that died. Ah yes... You just continue. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well you tried to claim they were going DOWN... The facts show you to be wrong. You tried to claim that as long as no one else gets hurt... the facts show you that the rate of accidents where someone collides with another person have gone UP. So you are wrong there as well. Ah, yes... This is what happens when you run out of intellectual discourse. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Email and call the BOD. I have been in discussions with a few members of the BOD and email exchanges with Ed Scott. If you have any question about this idea... Let your voice be heard. Without your input, they will do what they and they alone think best. Let me be 100% clear on a few points. 1. I have no issue with the U.S. Demo team idea. In concept the idea has merit. My issue is that this team already has been put at the head of the line for a demo job in front of the general membership. I see this as a conflict of interest of a member supported organization. 2. I have no issue with Jim Hayhurst. Some of his ideas for the actual demo program were flat out fantastic. I respect his accomplishments and do not question his intentions at all. I do have issue with the potential unintended consequences of creating a team that is viewed as "Official" by the general population. I know that if I were looking for a demo team and you gave me the option of some random person or the team that was backed by the USPA... I'd pick the USPA team. I'll bet others would make the same choice. I see this as a conflict of interest. If this team were created with donations from individuals instead of the USPA membership money, if the leader was someone unconnected to the USPA, and the USPA did not act like a booking agent for this team... I would have zero issues at all with the idea. But as it stands now the illusion of this team being the "official" USPA team and the fact that you can get this team by calling the USPA.... Seems like a gigantic conflict of interest to me and many others. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You have to look at more than just two years worth of data.... Care to tell the class how many collisions happened by year for the last 10 years? Or maybe just how many were 5 years ago? For example... Canopy collisions in the US in 2004: ZERO 2005: 2 fatalities 2006: One 2007: 4 fatalities 2008: 4 fatalities 2009: One 2010: 6 2011: 4 So there is a trend, from ZERO to 4 deaths. Even just using your selective year trick there was more in 2004 any year prior 2007. So, yes, there is a trend. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

More normal IMO. It SEEMED short, but that is due to time twisting in high stress than the actual event. As I stated, I was watching and making mental notes. He opened and went behind some buildings (from my perspective). He was quite a distance away and that makes someone look lower due to perspective. The lesson is really to not jump when you are hurt. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There are no Federal Laws... They are USPA rules. The SAME as are being proposed about canopy WL issues. You must have missed where canopy collisions are growing, thus affecting innocents ... Try re-reading my post again. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I talked to the jumper. The only important part of the discussion was him jumping with a wrist injury that prevented full control and a pillow handle. Without the wrist injury he might have been fine. Without the pillow handle he might have been fine. With the wrist injury and a pillow handle, he was lucky to have an AAD. I watched him from cutaway till reserve PC launch.... I was already making mental notes for the accident report. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So are pull altitudes... you going to complain about them? So is students needing an RSL and AAD... you going to complain about those? I don't want to legislate to protect you from you... I want some legislation to protect OTHERS from you. Currently people being 'responsible for themselves' is ending with them hitting and killing others. Again, feel free to kill yourself. I will not be happy about it, but hey it is your right. But you are NOT free to risk OTHERS lives. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you are jumping out of your own aircraft onto your own property by yourself.... You are free to do pretty much whatever you want. But when you are jumping with others.... It becomes a group problem. When you are jumping out of someone else's aircraft onto someone else's property... It becomes their problem. They are free to allow it if they want. In 2011, in the US alone, four deaths were due to a collision. In 2010 in the US: Six. So it is a group problem unless you are by yourself on your own property out of your own aircraft. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I am aware of that... I was at the Nationals. There were many pickup teams, just as there are every year. For example: Throw Down - Kyle more than doubled his jumps for the year at the Nationals Oldspeed - One training jump and that was with Orla in for BC. DNR - They did 14-20 jumps training. Team Captain - They had less than 10 jumps. Animal Unleashed - They formed pretty much right before Nationals. In addition, I know Karl who was on Old Greg with Mikhail. But, the question asked was "were you at USPA NAtionals ?" And all I did was provide the answer (yes) and his 'teams' performance (10.3-11.3) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

First 8way was jump #8 in 1993 Jump #34 I did a 2 point 8way in Hazen, AR. back in 1994 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.omniskore.com/comp/2011/usnats/fs/307.asp Looks like they did a 10.3 average. However, looking at the scores it seems like they might have lost a few points to video (10). This might be wrong, but that many busts at the start of a jump often are due to video. If so, then they would have had an 11.3 average. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

SDU is one of the top programs in the US. The only thing I don't understand is why the need for the L1 (Cat A) and L2 (Cat B) dives. I'd start you on L3 (Cat C) depending on how you did in the tunnel One military program I worked on we went from the tunnel right to L4 (cat D), single jump master. But they did get 30 mins of tunnel and by the end of the week over an hr of tunnel. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Slow down..... No offense but you don't know enough to know what you want and we don't know enough about you to make a decent recommendation. You might be 7 feet tall and weigh 100# or be 3 feet tall and weigh 200# both recommendations would be vastly different. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I'd prefer jump numbers on type.... That way an aggressive pilot that is jumping a bunch can advance at a fast rate, but not the guy making 50 jumps a year for 4 years. And I am still a big fan of a practical test administered by the S&TA. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Saturday night I was chatting with some current and former members of the US team and over the last year they often only had 5 dollars in their pocket. They might have been lying to me, but I doubt it. They also might just be REALLY bad with money. I know I had to loan some money to one US team member to buy a plane ticket to go compete. I also know that I had to help some others with some discounts. So, maybe I am wrong.... But maybe not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well the RSL would have just replaced the AAD fire. Substitution of one dependance for another is not the answer. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thanks!!!! The GodFrog was great to be a part of the history (and glad to have my name with yours on it). Any idea why it was not awarded in 96??? The best was the judges choice.... I actually planed the dives over a year ago. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My letter to Ed Scott I have been following the announcement of the USPA funding another organization designed to create a Demo team... So far I have just been trying to gather information about this program. I talked to Jim Hayhurst at the end of the ceremony at the Nationals and I was very disturbed by the information that he gave me. Let me just state that I am for trying to get corporate sponsorship... It is a shame that our would class athletes are living at a wage less than the average American and are forced to pay out of pocket to represent the United States at the World meets. That being said, the proposed solution by Hayhurst and the actions taken by the USPA have me more than a bit worried. A bad solution to a problem is often worse than the problem. 1. Was there any collateral for this 10,000 dollar loan? If not, then what are we going to do if this new organization folds? 2. Who is going to run this new organization? Who will they answer to? 3. Why is a member funded organization supporting another organization that will take jobs from current members in good standing AND have passed the organizations own demo certification? I'll admit, this is a major sticking point for me. Hayhurst told me that someone called the USPA and asked who could perform a demo on 9/11 and that the USPA recommended his new organization (with absolutely no track record) .... In essence the USPA was used exactly like skyride but with only ONE participating demo program. Hayhurst said he was glad that this happened and that he hopes that that would become the standard. I feel that this is an inappropriate action by the USPA. Hayhurst used the example of how civilian demo teams have to compete against the Golden Knights.... Yes, but I do not support the Golden Knights with my membership dollars, and the Golden Knights did not certify me to be able to perform demos either. 4. Hayhurst being on the competition committee and (if I am correct) also a member of this new organization is a gigantic conflict of interest. His participation on the team is also a conflict of interest. When asked these questions, Hayhurst became upset and aggressive. I had to ask him to clam down three times or we would have to stop the discussion. He finally insulted me as being "afraid and short sighted". This kind of attitude from a member of the USPA to one of its members who wanted to hear about the official actions of the USPA is troubling. It became clear to me during my conversation with Hayhurst that his goal is to create a demo team made up of a close group of people (including himself) that is either the "official" USPA demo team or that at the very least creates the illusion of being the official USPA demo team. And that his team is the only one that would be recommended by the USPA, and that this team will openly compete against the membership. I feel this is a clear conflict of interest and that it goes against the very core of ethical behavior. Ways to increase sponsorship is a very good idea, creating a demo team to compete against the general membership is not a good idea to me. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Other DZ's have done 7-10 jumps in a day for the Nationals. AZ also had bad weather.... Just like some other Nationals events. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

While this is bad.... The USPA should NEVER help start an organization that will hurt its existing members. The WORST part is how Hayhurst admitted that he wanted the USPA to direct ALL calls to the USPA requesting infromation on who can do a demo to HIS TEAM AND HIS TEAM ALONE. He has said this has ALREADY happened. In effect make the USPA his booking agent. So if someone calls the USPA and asks who to contact to get a demo done and it is in your backyard... He wants the USPA to not give them your info, but instead send them to his team. And again, this has ALREADY happened and he wants it to become the standard. So, if are the USPA and you just loaned 10k to an organization that is going to help you support your goals.... Who are you going to recommend? A. The local member with a PRO rating. B. An organization that you loaned money to and whos end goal is to help you support your charter? Hell, I'd select "B" as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And Hayhurst was completely unapologetic about that when we talked. He kept saying how I support the GK team.... Yes, but I do not VOLUNTARILY join an organization to have my dues money used to support a team to compete against me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334