Ron

Of course! Wait for someone to insult you and then let it rip! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then I guess I should have seen you on the World Record 16 way last year.... Which one were you? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Those that know you (even if just from scuttlebutt), think you are. But not everyone knows you. Yes, but wasn't this aimed at people who are not in that world and therefore maybe not know who is who? I don't dispute your ability.... I just think that someone who does not know you or is not in the circle asking for more information should be bashed for asking a simple and relevant question. I think you will pull it off, but that is only because I know of you and what you have done. I think Spence will pull off his boogie, but only because I know of him doing it before. But I don't see asking for qualifications as a ridiculous question worthy of being bashed. Look, I think it is a GREAT idea. I think you have the skills to organize it, and the people to pull it off and I support the effort. I just think that bashing a person who asks a question will scare off the EXACT people you are trying to do this for. Attitudes like that are the reason I have not done a big way since a 100 way in 1997. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

See my post here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4235091;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have seen a few of them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Possible, but it should be easy to correct if it was noticed at all. Both. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then your choice should be Zhills. If it is there, you will be allowed to jump it. They have a staff of packers... It is one of the more difficult jobs to break into at a big DZ. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The video guys main was: Green/White/Pink The guy with the kite's was: Purple/Yellow It seems the main that was entangled was the *other* jumpers. And that is pretty understandable. At one point you can see a yellow reserve, no one on the jump had an all yellow main. I had close to the same thing happen to me, guy I was docking on went into brakes suddenly and all hell broke loose. I had lines wrapped all around me fouling my pack. If I had cutaway, I think the same thing that happened in the video would have happened to me. Looks like the guy cutaway from HIS canopy, but did not get clear of the OTHER main before he pulled the reserve and his reserve deployed through some of the other guys main. when the other guys main did clear off of the jumper, it grabbed the slider of the reserve and pulled it back up... Basically giving the jumper a snivel that can't be fixed. Someone asked if you could climb up..... Well, there have been stories of guys doing that, but I think that the guys actually pulled the ball of crap DOWN and not climbed up. Most people would not be able to pull themselves that far UP lines like we use. This can work if the drag on the ball of crap is LESS than our suspended weight. The fact this guy had a main AND a reserve out makes me think that very few people would have been able to climb up/pull down that ball of crap. CRW experience would have helped... I heard no communication during the wrap, and sometimes it is better to trap the crap, than try to cutaway.... That being said, in that situation it is fluid and you need to react FAST and EITHER "solution" could have been worse. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Direct link to the tunnel, it is in Orlando, which is fairly close to Zhills or DeLand. A bit further from Sebastian. http://www.iflyorlando.com/ifly-indoor-skydiving One of the people that sell tunnel time and provide coaching http://www.tunnelcoach.com/home.php There are other options, I know some coaches in DeLand that also coach in the tunnel, but they do not have a website. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You can start by reading these: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=WL+BSR&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=Ron&sb=score&mh=25 If you have any questions about my thoughts after reading all or even just a few of those... Feel free to ask for clarification. My issue is your post was full of blame for the CANOPY and not the pilot. With the exception of the G-Lock example EVERY one of your other examples was the failure of the PILOT, not the equipment. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I guess you missed the part where I have more jumps AND more tunnel than you? Someone has been on the sidelines, it was just not me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you are 100% correct that the Alti is a much better answer. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Claiming "you can jump rsl's, skyhooks all day since you probably will need it" is a lame attempt at a PA... Just admit it, everyone else can see it. Well, Sangi was not a FATALITY now was he? See, I have been on this board 10? years and been skydiving 18..... BTW you might want to read: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1673856;search_string=2005;#1673856 And http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=869327#869327 So I track all the accidents (not just fatalities) and have for 18 years.... I just don't care to report them anymore. Not when you are low due to losing track of altitude..... Like I have said, I have CUTAWAY at 750-800 feet. It is a much better bet than a guy with 10 times LESS experience. Ah, how cute... another lame attempt at a PA. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

We get that idea, because that is what you said: "Well I guess that's why folks with a couple hundred jumps, no ratings, and 1000's of tunnel hours were on the last HD World Record. Because they lacked the skydiving skills." Skydiving skills includes things like canopy control, spotting, malfunctions... etc. "Tunnel Time will have you outperforming those who only jump from planes very quickly. " Not at spotting, flying a canopy, swooping to a formation, malfunctions... etc. So when they guy asked "Would you count a minute in the tunnel as a jump, half a jump, no jump...?" And John answered that it is not a jump and even mentioned "The only thing that a wind tunnel and a jump have in common is "freefall", and even that isn't really the same." And you even screwed up his math.... "If your only goal is to learn 4-way point transitions, then I'd give it a .9" .9, that is .1 from *equal*... But you jumped on him with: "You sound like one of those skydivers that refuse to accept tunnels.... So why would you rate a minute of tunnel as equal to .01 jump? Is that ignorance or arrogance? " So you seem to have an agenda to support tunnels and that has blinded you to what was actually said. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Can't say I know the guy.... I only know that he and you sure act the same based on your posts. And if you can't take a man at his word... Well...? Well, it goes to show that I have 10+ times the experience that you claim to have. And I have brought valid arguments that you have not answered. Then maybe you should avoid them? 1. A lame attempt at a personal attack. 2. you clearly have no idea of my position on RSL's 3. I have PROVEN I don't need RSL's by having 7 times the number of malfunctions without one than you have. And it is OK to have an opinion. But you seem to think your opinion is more valid than a guy with 10 times your experience. And that somehow your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong. I'll put any of your canopy skills up against mine ANY day. And I'll put my experience up against yours any day. The wise would bet on me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

As opposed to the arrogance of telling people not to ask a valid question? Asking a guy that you know nothing about for some of his history is a perfectly valid question. For example..... If I tried to arrange a boogie out of thin air, my lack of exp would be a hindrance. You however would be qualified and have the TRACK RECORD of pulling it off. Same thing with a 4 or 8 way team... I'd bet that I could build one easier than you could based on a proven track record. So, asking a person who they are is a VALID question before someone gets excited about a project. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wrong, you can also look at the ground. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That is due to not cutting away, not running out of altitude. And again..... Loss of altitude awareness does not really matter what altitude you are AT... It only matters that you THINK you have enough time. And if you don't lose altitude awareness it really does not matter. I have chopped from 750-800 feet before, AAD's fire the reserve at 750 feet. Again, I have more jumps on 'Modern canopies' than you have jumps. Fact is I most likely have more jumps on old canopies than you have jumps.... you still have not proven your points. Sangi said the same thing.... funny huh? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well if it HAS, then it CAN BE. Maybe, but the same landing techniques were used under 120 Sabres without issue. The point being that even if I grant you your point, it is STILL not the canopies fault. No I didn't. He said that "Any canopy that can cause a cutaway from a brake fire is by definition lethal." And I have seen a Raven "cause a cutaway". I have had brake fires on 107 Stiletto's, 96 Velo's, and 88 FX's.... None required a cutaway, most brake fires don't. He was trying to blame canopies for the faults of the PILOTS.... It is clear he had an agenda and frankly I found most of it to be crap without any basis in reality. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not every accident gets reported to anyone. Add in that this might have been a few years ago and it was much worse. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He also said he would be fine and that we didn't know him and how good he was. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There were two parts. 1. Raising pull altitudes will do nothing for entanglements since it was not a deployment problem, it was a pattern problem. 2. It will not save people from bouncing since... As you claimed "but i also knew i've had plenty of altitude before i would hit dirt" You don't think each and every person who pounded in under nothing or a deploying reserve had that EXACT same thought? If they HAD known where they were, they would have deployed a reserve faster. The insidious thing about losing altitude awareness means you THINK you have enough time. And that can happen no mater how much time you ACTUALLY have. That is an opinion.... I have more exits below that than you have jumps. Are you trying to say that you know more than someone with 10X your experience? The point is that you have provided nothing to back up your claim that: A. Higher will prevent people who have lost track of altitude from bouncing. B. 2500 feet is "stupid low" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He is more current than you. He knows more about modern canopies than you. I'd feel safer with him in the air than with you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The Bonanza does not require a type rating. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Raising pull altitudes will not change the entanglement issues. And most of those are people that lost track of altitude.... So it *might* help, but what WOULD help is making them more altitude aware "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334