Ron

#1. Unless you have proof that the SS didn't tell him to stay put....I am gonna have to bet they did. And unless you know more about military tactics than I do...Im gonna go with my feelings. #2. I doubt anyone could have reacted in 30 seconds.....He was just told that he is now the president of a country at war. And it has been attacked. An attack that was the worse on US soil since WWII. If he needed 5 min to compose himself...Good. I needed a couple of days. How long where you messed up? #3 I'd rather have a guy in office that thinks before he starts launching nukes....You may not.. Thats just scarry. You lefties will find fault with anything the man does.... He is still a man, and I bet no one else would have handled that situation better. You clearly don't know squat about being a human. You spend to much time with computers. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Big difference between the White House and some school in SRQ.....The WHOLE White House is locked tight. If he were in the White House I don't think he would have had the luxury of sitting anywhere...The Secret Service would have moved him for his saftey. Any idea what the VP was doing at that time? If he did jump up and start reacting right then....what could he have done? You remember Pearl Harbor? We didn't just jump up and start bombing shit 5 min later...And we were pretty much ready to fight then....This was a sucker punch. No one REALLY saw it comming. 1st. I think the SS told him to stay put till they had checked the exit plan again. He is the CiC of the Armed forces....So it is kinda important that he does not end up with a bullet in his head. A sudden change in normal operations opens gaps that can be used to hit him. 2nd. I think there was frankly a shock value...I know when I was told while in the Army at a military school...No one believed the cadre when they told us. I think honestly that he wanted to freak out..I would have...You the most powerful man in the world has just been told that your country is under attack...An attack that was not forseen, and the worse since WWII. I don't think ANYONE would have been able to react to that news in 30 seconds. 3rd. You have to think before you react. You can't attack when you don't know where or who to attack. I'm glad he just didn't start dropping nukes. I don't want a knee jerk reaction starting WWIII. I can't blame the man. So unless you KNOW the SS didn't tell him to sit and hold. And unless you think YOU would have handled the situation better (And I don't think ANYONE could have). And unless you want a guy that does not think before he acts sitting on the largest supply of nukes.... I would say you should not have a problem with 5 min. There is NOTHING he could have done anyway. He cant hop into his Limo with a Flux capacitor speed to 88 MPH and go back in time, hop in an attack jet and shoot down the planes. I have no issue with 5 min. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ya know...You would have bitched at him if he had jumped up, removed his suit, put on his superman outfit, flown around the world backwards went back into time and personally flew aboard each plane and saved all the people. The President HEADS the armed forces...He does not fly a fighter jet anymore. The Defense system is in place and designed to run without him....He guides it, not operates it. My neighbors have keys....See how easy that was? I have a plan in place, just like the whole US defense force does. We don't have 500,000 troops waiting for a word from one guy...We have preplanned actions to take in emergency situations. Can you see EVERY person on his detail? Can you see if someone gave him a signal to stay put? Like I said even if he was Superman you would slam him. And I would like to know your level of military or police training as well. You are talking about something you know nothing about. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Stay with the student. An Instructor should always stay with the students... Now if there are two instructors...Only one has to stay. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No you are grasping...You have no facts..But to act like he didn't care is more fun I guess? What, if any, military or police "special package" training or knowledge do you have? Other than renting "Delta Force" 10 times? Were you there in SRQ when it happened? Do you have one of those cool little ear pieces the Secret Service have? So I think you are grasping at straws. Simple facts: 1. There was nothing Bush could have done at that time. The National defense system works without the President. He guides it, but he does not operate it. 2. Even if he was in the White House when it happened (Which if he was in the White House he would have been doing a quick exit stage left) There was really nothing he could have done at that time without more information. 3. Any change in plan compromises the security of the President. ANYTHING from taking him out of that room to removing all the kids from that room. In that situation: An off site location without permanent contingency plans..The safest thing to do is bunker down till you have a solid escape plan that can be executed at YOUR pace. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

10 way speed. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah, I would not complain if your rule was in place... My only complaint is the simple fact that we make people move up if they win Advanced, but if a jumper placed in OPEN (A much higher level of skydiving) they can sandbag and compete in Advanced. And to be honest I have no issue with PC teams...as long as they are in open. No one has yet given me ONE good reason that a PC team can't get the same benefits of a PC if they went open...The only reason to go Advanced is to try and buy a medal. You could not hire a PRO in any other sport to compete in a lower level. Why can you in skydiving? Johns rule would work well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I refer you to this. I'm willing to bet that the Secret Service was not going to let him leave a secured area until they had a good escape plan. I know guys in the SS...They will not talk about stuff like this in particular, but we have talked about general security issues before. It's safer to keep a guy in a secure place than move him on any contigency plan you might have. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Uh....Like every 4 years? The Nation was quite divided on Clinton. It hapens every time it comes near to an election. DO I think Bush is the greatest thing? Nope. But he has shown good leadership in some very hard times. I bet Gore was glad he didn't win on 9/11. Any man would not want that. I don't think Bush has done bad as a leader. Im not sure ANYONE could have done as well. Sometimes being a leader means people are not going to like you. I'd rather have a guy that does what he thinks is right, than have a guy that tries to please everyone. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hey Bill...There is a fire at a DZ...Quick do something to save us. However you don't know which DZ, or what other DZ's might be on fire. So what do you do? Run around and scream? No, you have to get info before you attack back. Who Attacked us? Delta? American Airlines? OBL? Saddam? Should be send in Special Forces to Delta's corp headquarters? Also..one thing I bet you never thought of....Ya know a very well used way to assasinate someone? Get them to break the protection plan they have in place. Someone like the President has a very well rehearsed protection plan....The best way to find get to him is make them break the standard plan. He then becomes more of an open target....Ya think maybe the Secret Service told him to stay put till they secured the exit plan? If I was on his detail I would not let him just get up and run out. I'd have him stay put till I could secure the area...I bet all the details senses were on MAX. Something for you to consider before you claim he did nothing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thanks... The walk is April 24th at the University of Tampa. I have been told 4-6 miles is the distance. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1st jump on an elliptical.. was around 100. It was one jump a high pull and I was given a very good block of instruction. (Thanks Winsor). I didn't jump an ellitical again until around jump # 260ish. It was a 97 Stiletto...Not smart, but I didn't die. I bought a ST120 and jumped it on jump # 370...I hooked it in on jump # 373. I would hope that you don't follow my stupid example. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I bought mine for 2 grand. Rent is 300.00 if you don't do 20 jumps, 200.00 if you do 20 .Staff its 175.00. Electric is extra, water is included. Phone hook ups are available. Wireless internet is available. I don't know of any available right now....But I might be selling my place in the near future. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No seperate issue. Peep

Ok... Funny story. The VP of my reigion and my division were comming in town. They flew in on the Corp jet and held a small meeting with just the Managers and staff guys. We had about 8 folks in the meeting for these two. They give the traditional speaches..Actually they were pretty good. But they danced around the recent Voulantary Seperation package, and early retirement that we just had...And the fact that about double the people took it than they thought would.....One of the managers asks him about it...kind of vaguely. He does a good job of dancing all around the question without touching it. So I ask point blank about it..."Why did so many people take the package? Was it due to the fact that the amount of money they got paid was not equal to the amount of stress put on them? And what is the company going to do about it?" He could not tap dance around that one...But he of course still gave a half answer. The manager that asked the first question told me later "Damn! you hit him with both barrels". My Sr.Manager told me the same. My Manager told me I was not harsh enough....He told my Sr. Manager that I should be sent to a course to be more assertive. The look on the Sr's face was great. I'm a direct kind of guy.....Which is why I keep turning down managment jobs....I can talk to peers like that, but not people under me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I say things like I see them. I would rather tell the truth than surgar coat it. I would rather you be pissed at me and listen, than ignore me and die. And he started off not talking about gear...his first comment was to call me a snob. When I have a guy attack me...I tend to attack back. You don't like it don't read it. I don't aplologize about not letting people walk on me. There was a wire that the rigger crushed while putting new batteries in it. When they turned it on...It fired. However there was a fire in DeLand about a mth ago at 3,000 feet, that has not been explained yet. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Final post on this. I'm not sure this is an attack, or a statment. This could be part of the problem....I took your calling me a snob as an attack. Maybe you ment that as a complement? It's not Tabu...But a bunch of folks that went to work and were typing had nothing to do with the attack. You said: And I said I know no one that has died from an accident that involved typing. You came back with 9/11....A terroist attack has NOTHING to do with typing or new skydiving gear being untested and sometimes dangerous. Don't know...But I can reduce the chances of skydiving gear killing me by jumping trusted gear. And old joke goes: A recipe for disaster. You drive to the DZ in your Ford Pinto (A car known for exploding if hit in an accident). Get in a Queen Air (A plane known for losing an engine). With a drunk pilot. You jump your Nova (a Main known to collapse on final). In your Reflex with a catupult (The Catupult was know to casue some proplems). While you are wearing a Sentinal (An AAD known to missfire) With a Micro Raven (a reserve known to break lines, and rip apart). Or you could choose to get into your Volvo ( a car know to be very safe) To a DZ with a well maintained Otter. With a sober pilot. While jumping a Specter in a Vector 3 with a PD 126 and a CYPRES. Now...Which is more safe? Skydiving is about eliminating the risks as much as you can. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

9/11 was a TERRORIST attack...Not a typing accident. Stop acting like an idiot. Nope you can have opinions all day...But with less than 200 jumps...You opinions about skydiving equipment, and techniques are not very good. Im done with this 100 jump wonder. He clearly "knows it all". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not that extreme really... However, it would kill a lot of Jr. 4 way teams. And without a venue for them to compete...It will hurt RW in whole. I don't have a problem with JR classes...I have a problem with people taking advantage of the stupidity in the USPA and taking World class jumpers a into lower classes just so they can get a medal. Can anyone give me ONE reason why a PC team can't go in open and still get all the benefits that a PC can provide EXCEPT for the chance to medal? I bet not. So its clear people hire PC to try and buy a medal. Thats wrong as hell. You don't see a college football team being allowed to hire an EX NFL player. Or a College Basketball team being allowed to pick up a NBA PRO. Same in hockey, baseball, golf...ect. USPA wants to act like skydiving is a viable sport...But they don't act like every other sport organization out there. But they want to make a "move up" rule if you win...But they let people who have PROVEN they are some of the best move down if they want...That makes no fucking sense. The answer is really simple. A. Everyone is an amateur..Until they win a class, or medal in a higher class...Then they are ineligible to ever compete in that class, or a lower class again. OR B. They get rid of the stupid move up rule. Those are the two answers to this... USPA you want to act like the big guys...Stop playing like a child. All those that hire PC teams can take them to Open class...And get every benefit to having a PRO with them...Except they just can't medal in the amateur class. I don't follow the USPA logic...You can only take one guy that has ever won advanced back into advanced...But you could take PD Blue with Chris Irwin in Shannons place and have them compete in Advanced? Stupid USPA...real fucking stupid. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah...I can't compete with any other that has ever won Advanced...But I could hire ALL of PD Blue (Except Shannon) and Go advanced. The highest that has ever won advanced was a 14.9....Before that it was right around 13.5 since the advanced class was created. Only ONE of any of those jumpers can go back to Advanced EVER...But 4 guys that have won a silver in OPEN can compete in Advanced? Like I said...Stupid USPA, real fucking stupid. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And only a handful of Novas killed people. Just cause its only a few units...does not make it OK. But the risk of jumping unproven equipment is dealing with new issues....From minor ones, to possibly dangerous ones. This is a minor one. But I would still be pissed if I spent 1200.00 bucks on the thing and it was messed up. And its their problem...THEY should pay to fix it...not expect the customer to pay even the shipping. If I was Airtec...With the Vigil out..I would be bending over to help out those that bought my new CYPRES...Not hanging them out to dry. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Preliminary from http://www.skyleague.com/ And Danny Page. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well they had some minor rule changes. They have decided to keep player coaches since they see them as a "net benefit". But they didn't change the defend your title rule... So you can hire World Class jumpers and compete in Advanced, but you can't take the same team that won last year or even a combination of guys that have won in past years. So you can take 4 guys with a Silver in OPEN, but not even 2 that have won advanced. Again thats just fucked up. Stupid USPA, real fucking stupid. From the NCAA about questions to ask if a team is professional. I see Advanced as a NON professional event...Whay let PROS participate? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

One question...Are you happy that you bought a CYPRES 2 that has this problem? Would you be happier if you had waited 6 mths to a year and this was then not an issue? I'm pretty sure this issue is fixed by now. And this was a SMALL issue...More of an incovienance than a danger...But would you still be OK with the purchase if it yanked you out at 6 grand? When you get unproven things in this sport you risk your life on them. Some of them are less risk than others...Altimeters Helmuts, jumpsuits...ect. Some are riskier Canopies and rigs.... Some are unknown AAD's. When you go spend your hard earned money on the latest and greatest stuff, and it does not live up to the hype is that OK? What if it kills you? I know several that thought the Nova and Crossfire were the best things in the world....Until they started killing people. I know folks that said the catupult was the BEST thing to come out....Now most don't The ASTRA was going to run CYPRES out of business....Anyone bought one of them today? And the attitude of "It's OK send it in on the next 4year" is crap. Its the risks of buying the new toys first...You get to be a test jumper...And if you like that kind of thing, and don't mind PAYING to do it...Then go ahead. I don't. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I know no one that has died from an accident that involved typing. I know plenty of folks that have been hurt or killed from "new"gear. Look you have