Ron

That jumper is probably not dead DUE to his experience. If he had less skill he might have died...As it stands he just got hurt. There is a big difference between hurt and dead. I work on ending dead first... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

sure a "D"..But that means 200 jumps. NOW it means 500. 200 jumps is still not a lot. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Im not a rigger, but what if I just wanted to expand the question? And I know plenty of BASE guys that know lots about gear. Plus, I have more historical information than a freshly minted rigger. The biggest problem I see with that is this: Then people with 100 jumps might not be able to ask a question to the right people. The big issue I have is the 100 jump wonder giving advice...Not the 100 jump wonder asking questions...I like to answer questions. That one of the three things I do here. They are in order: 1. Answer questions and try to provide information to make this sport safer. 2. Try to keep 100 jump wonders from giving bad advice. 3. Start shit. JK don't ban me! But who would do the checking? I know several folks that have 10,000 jumps listed in their profile..And they ahve been jumping less than a year. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

and there are not. Look at it this way....The PRO's..Guys that jump for a living, that even swoop for a living are jumping everyday and they jump canopies around 90-100 SF....What makes anyone think they are able to jump the same canopy as a PRO? I don't see many people flying Extra 300's. Or many weekend riders with the SAME type of race bikes as the racers do. I have been driving a car for 15 years and I have NEVER driven a formula 1 racecar. What makes a weekend fun jumper think he is able to fly the same canopy that a PRO does? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Chuck said it best. I'm only adding this part...Chuck or me, hell almost anyone could not "Max out" ANY new canopy in 200 jumps. I had 1500 jumps before I ever tried to land an accuracy canopy...I sucked at it. I did 160 jumps in ONE MTH, and I was still not hitting dead center all the time. In my time jumping an accuracy canopy (That was a big, boatlike, 7 cell) I maybe put 500-600 jumps on it in 3 years...And I still didn't "Max it out". And that was just trying to do ONE thing well. and I was still not perfect. CRW jumpers do hundereds of CRW jumps a year..and they would take more than 200 jumps to max out a canopy. Some guy with 300 total jumps is not going to Max out a canopy in 200 jumps. Think about it....Thats only 200 landings. Thats not alot. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Jumpers with less than 1,000 jumps get killed MUCH more than jumpers with over 1,000. Its a fact. Just look at the fatality reports. You would have to be dense to not see a problem. You would have to be blind to not see how many 300 jump wonders are under canopies that are to HP and to high of a WL for their amount of EXPERIENCE.... You can fly around all day under canopy...But with 300 jumps you only have 300 LANDINGS. Except with all those you do not start a series of events that WILL end with your death. They only become fatal if you really screw up...With skydiving it is fatal unless you perform correctly. And with those other sports you can stop and think. Not so with skydiving. Aviation and skydiving have many of the same common risks and skill sets. Guess what skydiving is an AVIATION activity. Three reasons. 1. They are most likley to be the ones that don't have any or less expereince. Who would do better on a Velocity 90 me or you? 2. You should not take away rigths from someone once they have them...Just like when the national drinking age went from 18 to 21...If you were already 18 you could still drink. 3. The new folks will learn this new way from the start...We would not have to "convince" them..They would know no other way. Delelop a test and give it to me...I'll pass it. as will most folks that already have 1,000 jumps...Why waste the time? Last year 11 people died under canopy...That was more than the 9 years from 1983 to 1992 That clearly shows a problem. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No offense , but almost everyone thinks they are better than average. Again, no offense ...You only think you can max out that canopy...I have almost 2,000 on my canopy and am still learning on it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Plus I only have a 12.5 avg at point...So I am sure she can do that slot better than me. Its the one slot I don't like/don't do. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well. I would not say that I can look down and say "I'm at 325.6 feet". It's more like.."If I hook now, I won't splat". Example" When you are drinving your car and you pull into a parking space...You turn in and your bumper looks really close to the other car...But somehow you "know" you will fit....You can't say "I am 3 inches away". But you know you will fit. Its the same thing. BTW...When I did drink...I liked Corona with LIME...does that save me from being a wanker? Edit cause I really suck at spelling..Its BUMPER, not Bumber.. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My two cents on the issue: I think the moderators do a fair job of keeping the crap out. I would like to see people having to fill out the Profile. For example..I don't hide who I am. My ID is my name, my profile is filled out..Blah, blah, blah. There are some people on here that you have no idea who they are..And you could never find out anyway. I take all those people and I don't trust them...If they are not willing to be able to be identified...Then everything they say is suspect to me. I don't like the idea of a voted "rating" system. Quite frankly I'm sure my rating would suck. That does not make my words less true. But it would make them LOOK less true. I would hate to think an "unpopular" person who has all the crap I have (Ratings, time in sport, experience...ect) Be "rated" less than a "popular" person with 5 tandem jumps. Get rid of the post number rating system....It just encourages people to waste bandwidth, and gives people false qualifications. Number of times you have hit "post reply" does not mean anything. BillBooth (I know you love how we use him as an example) has less posts than me, but I shut up and listen when he talks. I just think the moderators need to be a little more agressive at times...Like when a 100 jump wonder is giving canopy advice. If you have to get more greenies that you trust. Great place, great job....and I don't really miss TB to be honest. Although I am watching the "serious" threads get TB2 like now. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I hate to say this...I agree with you Popularity contests are about as important as post numbers when determining content "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

In that case I understand. But that is not the case here..yet anyway. So it could be in effect till we did have a "user feedback" section. As you guys say "We can jump off that bridge when we come to it". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How hard is it to re-register? I could do it in less than one minute on this site. If we got rid of the "PW Labels" it would not matter at all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

These are all SKYDIVING related...And this is a SKYDIVING website. It is NOT a Republican or Democratic support page...you can go to: http://www.georgewbush.com or http://www.johnkerry.com/ to read all you want about politics. http://www.cnn.com has tons of good stuff also. You want to know about Guns?..The NRA has a website as well. There are way to many sex and dating sites to list...Try (and I'm just typing this, but I bet they are real sites) www.hotbabes.com and www.matchmaker.com If the political threads, Gun threads, Sex threads slow or even shut down the site...They should go away...Issues related to SKYDIVING (Including political related to skydiving such as Las Vegas and Skydiving laws. , chute and shoot Such as the one Zhills held, and well things like rape on the DZ) should be here. But BS like Bush or Kerry in 04 belong elsewhere...Like on a political forum. How long do you think www.politics.com would let us post about hook turns? (I made that one up too...but I bet someone clicked it.) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

First group exits a round with 3 out and only one in. They build it a little towards the back of the plane, leaving as much room for the 2nd group... The second group launches a Diamond and they can run it out, or if you are really ballsy you can launch a stairstep with two guys floating. The first group leaves, and the second group launches right after. The keys to pulling this off: The first group MUST NOT FUNNEL You could even Launch a two way and let the other two swoop if you want. You have time, the second group is leaving about 2 seconds later. They have to turn points then still swoop to the first group. If the second group gets there first (This has yet to EVER happen) They just lurk slots and dock as soon as the first group is done. The last point of the bottom 4way should be something easy to detemine where the swoopers slot is...(Don't do a round) Like maybe build a zipper and let the first two from the second group build a star with the 1st two and have the last two build zippers on their guys. So the end formation is a 4way star with two guys from each group with flakes. Open this to a round. Saftey issues: This is clearly not a dive for low experienced people. There is not an "easy slot" in this dive. ALL parties have to be very aware of the possible break off issues. Remember Vertical speed KILLS. So...In the diver 4way there should be a "No Go" altitude that if you don't have your points it does not matter..You start swooping to the base anyway just to build the 8way so you have a safer break off. Id say around 9-10 grand. If the group does not have the 8way at break off. Both groups should know the direction of the other group and NOT track that way. They should ALSO have altitude difference. The base group should pull around 2 grand the dive group around 3 grand if they are not in the same space at break off. Not an easy jump and it does carry a higher risk than many other types of dives...Due to this it is NOT recomended that you just try it. If you are down in the Hills let me know and I will try to put one together. It also helps if you have some chicks on the jump for some "extra altitude" if ya know what I mean. I have other dives that will help with your swooping...This is NOT a good dive to do just to practice swooping. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I still think people think its important. I would: 1. Remove all rankings. People would quit trying to "earn" a higher rating by PWing. It could be replaced with jump # or skydive ratings...I personally would eliminate ALL titles. 2. Delete usernames that have never posted. I had a Username that I created years ago that when I "rediscovered" the site I forgot all about. I have looked at some of the lists and saw HUNDREDS of "never logged on" names. 3. Don't log on in a year...Username is deleted. 4. I would not allow politcs, religion, sex into the forum. There are better places to get your real world news than DZ.com. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

While I think its great to introduce yourself to the new people...The new people have to take some of the responsibility. You go to a new DZ to meet people...so meet them. Don't expect them to come up to you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, I call it my Falcon and Eagle dive. I have done it a few times. The first group launches a 4way and starts turning 4 points. The second group dives out a diamond and turns 4 points, then swoops to the first group. (For saftey the second group should stop turning points at say 8 grand and swoop to the first formation to get the group together if they have the points or not.) Both groups then form an 8way and turn two points. So you get your (old) Falcon and Eagle on one jump. Not easy, but yes it can (and has) been done. Edit to add: My 2,000 jump was like this...sort of. I was doing an 8way. I asked to go last. When the group was climbing out I turned to the student (30 jumps) behind me and asked him if he wanted to launch a two way. My group left, we gave them about 5-6 seconds and the student and I left in a two way. I then waved good bye and tracked A VERY LONG WAY....I mean, My God a long way! And swooped to my slot. When I say it was a long swoop....I mean a LONG swoop. The student pulled at 6 grand (and we had horizontal seperation anyway) And my group thought it was very funny. Although they were a little upset that no one was able to dump me out. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you are in Zhills...I'll just charge slot. RW only..I don't freefly. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

REALLY?!!??!!?!?! USPA is based on self regulation? Go take a buddy out to a DZ and try just taking him on a freefall jump without training, an AAD, RSL or a helmet. Without rated instructors. And try to let him jump in winds above 20 MPH. Start pulling at 1300 feet. Try to do Demos without a PRO rating. Start teaching without an I rating. Wingloading limits would be in this same spirit. Ground him. Sure he may go someplace else...But atleast he will not get blood on your DZ. Yep and if he really is gifted...Then he could pass a test and prove it. Then he would be allowed to go as fast as jis skills and experience will let him...Not go as fast as his checkbook will let him. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That why I had this part of my post: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Every regulation I supported was both. There was a jump number to wingload rule for those that didn't want to try and exceed the "norm". Not everyone wants to push it, and lets face it jump numbers equals the number of times you have landed a canopy. The one I used was borrowed from Brian Germain, and I like it. 100 jumps 1.1 MAX 200 jumps 1.2 MAX 300 jumps 1.3 MAX ect. It could go to the "D", or all the way to 1,000 jumps...I personally like the 1,000 jumps. This chart IS being used at some DZ's already..And others have even MORE restrictive ones. However if you wanted to push it some...Thats cool there would be a PRACTICAL test you had to pass. I didn't like just having a canopy control course since it really is about being able to do it...not just know how to do it. If it was just knowledge...We would be able to just teach the FJC and then put people on freefall. The test I liked was a test that could be given by an S&TA or I. It was so simple in standards that a whuffo could understand it. The "PRO rating" test. If you can take your current canopy and land 10 times out of 10 standing in a 30 foot circle. Then you have the ability to fly that canopy fairly well. If you can't, then it is clear you still have more to learn on that canopy. Its not an easy test, but if you are "Advanced" and ready to move to a higher wingload...Then you should be able to do it. If not then you still have more to learn under that canopy. With BOTH of these you have a limit on wingload that raises with experience And that can be exceeded if you pass a PRACTICAL test. It is the best of both worlds. Natural progression AND the possibility to test out to a higher level. No, you have the right to an opinion, but when it comes to skydiving it weighs less than a person with more experience. Well, in my opinon while jump numbers are not a perfect way of judging skill...It is 99% of the time fairly accurate. We already use them now. 500 jumps to get a Tandem I. 100 Jumps for the old SL JM. Ect.... The bonus of my plan was if you really were better than your jump #'s...Then you could PROVE it and move ahead as fast as you can PROVE it. So if they ARE better...then they can PROVE it and move on. But there IS a normal progression model. MOST people do fit in that model. If you are really better, then it should be easy to prove it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I had several officers and NCO's from both the 82nd, and SF telling me that they are not. Plus I was actually IN the unit once. See that over there..Thats what is left of that horse. I think its dead. Wait it moved!!!! Nope its dead. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I am wrong...And I live in Tampa...Come find me if you want to talk. BTW the shut your lip was not a threat. You can't listen if you are talking. But then again you still think the 82nd is Special Ops right? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Regulation. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334