Ron

They still work and are close to the same as sport gear. They are noway near the military set up. Which work very well still...a reserve saves your life, and it is better to have a round than a square ina dual out situation. Making people do a PLF can make them more likley to do it when the nee to...How many broken ankles could have been prevented? You were also in ROTC in school....Thats kinda military like huh? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I said they didn't teach you anything about modern sport skydiving....If they were still applicable we would have students jump them. As it is the only people that still jump that setup are the military type operations. My 34 Military jumps taught me nothing about skydiving...Other than PLF's and rounds suck. And you skipped this whole part: So you think that only skills count and not jump #'s, but military SL have nothing in common with Modern sport jumping and gear. So why would you count them? Just to add jump #'s which you say don't matter? Military SL's don't teach ANY skills on the A card. (OK, maybe PLF's) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If I do something and you warn me...Then I do it again and you fine me...I them mock you and continue doing the same things that got me (and you) fined, and get fined again, and again, and again, and again, and again...Then the group get serious and lays heavy fines on me (And you).. Hell I would expect to get fired. Im surprized they kept him that long...Oh wait no I'm not...He made them money. He made money. He used shock and sex to make millions...He made them and now the FCC said enough...Clear Channel didn't HAVE to fire him..you issue should be with Clear Channel for letting him do it for profit, then slamming him when he did what he was getting paid (well) to do. Not the FCC for doing its JOB. In fact if I were Howard, I would sue Clear Channel...I would show how Clear Channel paid me good money to do what I did, and then I would show how they fired me for the very same thing the paid me to do. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Never on my Stiletto..I have flown it close to a stall, but on an elliptical canopy its a bad idea to do a full stall. My Ex GF had her first chop when she did a full stall and it spun up on her. Full stalls are not a good idea to do below your hard deck on ANY canopy. But the can be loads of fun on other canopies...I used to stall and collapse my canopy all the time when I had a big 7 cell canopy. Guys would start to spiral, and Id just collapse it and fall right by them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

They would need at least 5 jumps. USPA thinks it is: Yep, but the skills learned doing a mass exit at 800 feet on SL with round are TOTALLY different than freefall under a modern square, or even a SL under a modern square. Since most deaths are under canopy I don't see how you can compare a round that you can't even steer, to a square. Don't know...I only know what it was like 2 years ago. But I do know what sport parachuting has been like for the past 11 years...And in my 11 years I have found nothing new or useful in my 3 years of military jumping other than PLF's. And my first military jump was a joke. And sport gear and military gear is totally different. The canopies and emergency procedures are totally different...Such as not cutting away from a mal, a reserve mounted on your belly, not your back. Other than the guts to step out of a plane, getting really good at PLF's and maybe a little of the correct mindset (And I say a little since I know plenty of troopers that would NEVER sport jump...Its a job). You learned no SKILLS that are applicable to sport parachuting...And as you said its about performance, not jump number. So if the gear is so different, the performance measures so different, why should SL military jumps count? Its all about performance right? If it was applicable why don't we make new students do it at some time? They are skydives, but the teach nothing about canopy control, and they don't fill out you beloved A card at all.. Can you make all 25 jumps under a round today and still get your license? Nope, can't do the canopy control stuff now can you? Can you learn how to use three rings with capewells? Nope. Do you learn to spot? Nope. Attitudes yes, SKILLS no. And you said it was all about SKILLS right? And that jump #'s should not matter right? Well SL military jumps don't teach any SKILLS applicable to sport parachuting, so they should not count then right? If you want to contine this..PM me. The question asked has been answered "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, so 5 jumps...You need 5 two ways according to the license. OK 5 jumps just like I had said above. I know 10 year olds with no jumps that can do all that. I would not care...However he will learn NONE of those things doing SL military jumps. And thats why they should not count...They teach none of ths skills needed in SPORT parachuting Yeah on the wrong type of gear, And they know VERY little about gear. Thats why they have JM do J and PI. Yeah 800 feet at night. not the same thing. Under a round vs a square...Totally different. Yep, thats the ONE thing that is the same. It is completely fair. And very accurate. Military jumpers know nothing about square parachutes. A T10 you can't even turn it to change the view. You can't flair, and they know nothing about spotting. The only thing you can give them credit for is PLF's and the ability to have the balls to leave aplane in flight.... I just spent a few years jumping for Uncle Sam. And a few years teaching freefall to Military jumers...They know nothing about squares or freefall. Like I said all they know is PLF's. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ok fine 32 Military jumps and some tunnel time. The point is that military SL have about as much in common to sport skydiving as being a passenger on a bus has to NASCAR "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is a guy I think out of Sanford. He was down in Lake Wales giving rides...He told me he also gives instruction in it...I'll look for his number. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Enough that I have lost two relationships because I was honest when they asked me questions. One asked me if I thought her downsizing was a good idea...I told her no. She told me I should support ANY choices she makes...I asked "Even if I think its a bad idea?" She said ALL of her choices..I told her bye. The other tried to make me pick her or my friends (That used to be here friends also)...I told her that she was wrong in her disagreement with her old friends..(Cause she was)..Well that ended that one. I'd rather have honestly in my friends and in my relationships than lies just to make people feel good. Comeon...Those that read anything from me know how I feel. I don't sugar coat or lie to make people feel warm and fuzzy. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh, I logged my Base and my military as well...But for me, not the USPA. And thats my issue...I don't really care after the guy has passed the skillset. But a guy with 30 military static line jumps and just passed AFF level 7 should not be quailified for an A. But he could if you count military SL jumps. Like I said I consider them jumps..and most people don't have 100 military SL jumps anyway. So it really does not matter. I just don't think they should be counted for lisences.....Since the reason to have a certain jump # requirement is to show expereince...And military SL jumps are not even close to the same thing as sport jumps. A cargo crate can ride a military chute down...And most troopers are nothing more than cargo anyway...Hell I knew guys that closed their eyes as soon as they got to the door and didn't open them till they landed. That teaches no skills. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you are comming to Zhills let me know. I even have a trailer you can use "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Kinda like the audible debate? It would help if you gave a price range. You say he already has a headset? Well if its a cheapie...Get him a good one. David Clarks are very nice..even the cheap ones. A GPS is a good idea...Its a neat wizbang toy, and it can be a very good save your ass toy. And like I said they are fun to play with. One things that is very nice and kinda cheap is a license plaque: http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=1754 You could also just help him out some with his instrument ticket if he plans on going on. Acro lessons are great...I am getting ready to start getting some time in an Extra here soon. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Read what I wrote: Now as for why...Ever do a military SL jump? I have 30+ Military SL courtisy of the 82nd Airborne. It takes ZERO skill to do a military SL jump. In fact I know of one guy that did two jumps in division without having been to Jump school. All you have to do is hook up and walk out a door. You can't control the canopy, and trust me body position does not matter on exit. A military SL jump has nothing in common with sport skydiving. 100 military SL jumps teaches you nothing about sport skydiving. So they should not count towards any sport ratings or awards. My 1500 freefalls didn't count in the military for that same reason. While both involve using a parachute to safely land after leaving an aircraft...The similarities end there. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK I was told they don't count. If they do...Is tll don't care either way... I didn't make a military jump till I had 1500 anyway. I personally log them, and BASE jumps anyway. But I don't think a military SL should count.... But once again the USPA makes stupid choices. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

SL jumps count. They used to not count when it was you needed 20 Freefalls....Now its just 25 jumps. Military FF's count...SL didn't And I dont think they do still. The BSR said they had to be done in accordance with BSR's...an 800 foot exit is NOT in accordance with BSR's. However it also says right below it: And the BSR's state" So my take is No, Military SL do not count. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It gives a better feel of the canopy due to the fact the control lines go almost directly from the tail to the toggle. On a regular set up the line has to go to the riser, then to the toggle. That lessens the amount of direct control. They are MORE responsive, not less...You just like the more restricted feeling. The only better way to have a more direct controll line would be have zoo toggles...And thats just not practical for skydiving. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I love my tripple risers. I have 2,000 jumps on them and have had only one problem with them...And it was cause I made them wrong, not the design. It took 5 min and they were back to being great. Some don't like them, I love mine. Not a good idea for a first rig though. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This has been talked about on here before...Its not a supposed fire it WAS a fire. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=928743#928743 The person I got my info from I trust very much. But it is not listed in the document from them? All of the issues I have HEARD about. A fire on the French 4way team. (Beta unit.) A low pull fire and a ground fire that was later said to be a wire problem. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=916354#916354 3 ground fires: And a battery issue: I would like to know what the deal was on the fire in Deland....Its safe to say I will not be buying one anytime soon. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You first email said the will be connected...thats sharing. Id rather the USPA protect skydiving...And they do a shit job of that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There was a fire in DeLand..... That was at 3,000 feet. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes but this is the part that bothers me: And this part: How about this: Sure seems like the USPA is REALLY involved. And this makes me feel good: My real question is this...When the museum does not support itself (And it will not). Is it going to: A. Close and sell the land that it shares with the USPA. B. Have the USPA save it using money that would be better spent on training and yes, even lobby efforts. We all know it will be "B" that happens. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I knew that much...But I was wondering if Vigil is paying for the new cutters and repacks of these misfires? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Which they have not done much at all in that area...When 911 happend the USPA called the AOPA...The AOPA got us flying again. About as serious as they take us now.....Hint they don't care. I know that Mullins offered the USPA some land in Memphis...for free. But Memphis is not as cool as DC. Also salarys in Memphis are MUCH less than DC. Enough so that it would help cover some of the travel fees. And the FREE land would go a long way as well. Don't be so obtuse to not see that the USPA and the people in it are all about promoting themselves. They only care about the sport as much as it is a paycheck and some glory. Their actions...Or in most cases lack of actions hinder this sport. The reason they are in DC..They want to be. The reason that they don't get involved in small DZ issues...No glory in it. Thay have little control over anything in Congress. We as skydivers don't have enough of avoice to be more than a whisper in DC. The USPA should be spending its time trying to make the sport safer, and improving its image...They should be trying to make training programs match the real world issues. If the sport was safer we would not have some of the airport problems we have now. We would not have the giant insurance issues. A Museum is a giant waste of money. They would have done much better to create a portable display to be taken to State Fairs, Airshows...ect than a building in VA. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Did we ever get an answer on this? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Static charge from packing? Thats kinda lame. Don't pay to be a test jumper folks. Even the CYPRES2 has some issues...But I have yet to hear of a misfire. BTW I really do hope the Vigil or the Mpad or another GOOD AAD comes out. I am not happy with the CYPRES when it comes to service life. When I bought mine it did not have a life span. So when this CYPRES "dies" I will have to think about what I am going to do...Airtec has offered in my opinion a crappy deal for the trade in. I remember an AD that said something as "the last AAD you will ever need", and "it will last longer than you jump". So I really do hope to have a good option instead of an Airtec product... But I am not going to buy a sub standard product, or be a test jumper. Did Vigil pick up the cost of the cutter and new repack? So thats 3 ground fires, and one misfire at 3 grand right? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334