Ron

And who would know better? The person who wants to skydive, or a Doctor? Which Dr. would know more about the effects of drugs and the extreme environment of skydiving or flying? I would go with the Aviation Dr. every time. I never said they were. However, they are at a higher risk than someone that is not depressed. The fact that they are depressed may make it so they are not in a healthy enough mental state to safely skydive. Even if others are at a greater risk...The people on anti-depressants are waving a red flag that others are not. I never took offense to it. I would not take a dangerously overweight or out of shape person. (I have no idea how in shape or "chubby" as you call it you are.) Or I would not take a person who I deemed as a danger to themselves, or someone else. This sport is not for everyone...And it should not be. There are real dangers and being unhealthy while trying to perform in a high stress, high speed and unforgiving environment just adds to the danger. It is even more dangerous to be unhealthy while trying to LEARN a dangerous activity. But there is a giant red flag being waived when people know you are on anti-depessants that is not there for someone who might be depressed but not doing anything about it. I comend you for your desire to get better, but the simple fact is that some health issues are a deterent to saftey while skydiving. If someone had epilepsy, no matter how much they may want to skydive, I would not take them. I have heard some DZ's say that they can jump as long as they have an AAD....Thats wrong. While a person who is seaking treatment might be better off than someone who does not know they are imbalanced...Can you imagine the legal issues if I took a student who I knew had a heart problem, or was depressed and they died due to heart failure or suicide? Again skydiving is a high risk, high speed, unforgiving sport. Not everyone can safley do it, nor should they be allowed to do it if they have health issues. They have tried, but she continues to place herself in unhealthy situations...And her failure to reliably take her meds is an issue only she can fix...She is almost 40 years old, you can't force someone to do something if they chose not to. And what about when someone who is on meds, and they get a RX change...You don't know how the meds will work , or if they will work. So again they are in danger. Except people with diabeties (Which I have), sickle cell anemia or arthritis don't sometimes kill themselves due to it. The problem with depression is not always suicide...But just not careing if the person lives or dies...Its not an active suicide, but a passive one. Skydiving and a person who is not happy with their life and is indifferent as to if they live or die do not go together well. And like I said if he/she/you came to me and brought letters from the Dr's saying you are not a risk...Well then you could train. But not until. And part of that education should be the link I posted that shows the number of people who have commited suicide in this sport. I would ask anyone that has thougths of suicide to get help...call a friend, call a professional, talk to cleargy...Get help. If you feel you MUST end your life...don't do it in such a way as to hurt the sport you claim to love. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

More enlightened? Maybe less private pilots and a less of a sue happy culture...But more enlightend? Lets not forget that a good number of people are on anti depressants to counter a low so bad they have contiplated or attempted suicide. I don't want a guy that could not care if he lives of dies skydiving, or worse flying me or my family. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No he is calling Islamic extremists "Ragheads". He is not trying to kill as many as he can so he can get a bunch of virgins. The Islamic extremists are calling the US "the Great Satan", AND killing people. One is much worse....I'll let you pick which one, the guy that says the non-Politically correct thing, or the guy that goes around killing people since they don't pray to the same God. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This says it pretty well. We all jump to have fun, and some of us really want to do good jumps. Newbies don't seem to grasp that while they may want to jump with people who are going to push them, the people they want to jump with also want to jump with people who are go push them. I spend time working with low timers...I did a two way this weekend with someone. But I also want to get pushed. And like this poster said I don't have a money tree. If I did we would all have a lot more jumps. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If everyone that said "I'm voting for anyone but X" could decide on a canidate. And they are as numerous as they claim...Then you never know. Besides if more people voted for a 3rd party while it may not win this election, it could start support for it on the next election. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think a large diffence MAY be the fact they are wanting to kill non-muslims in a religious war...I could be wrong, but I don't remember the US attacking anyone over religious differences. It may come down to that. To bitch about name calling is childish. To compare two groups that are at war with each other to each other is strategy. Not disagreeing with you on his poor use of words. But just pointing out how "they" do the same to "us". And them killing anyone that does not look/act/pray like them will make people hate them as well. I think they are being lumped together just as they lump us together. Right or wrong its fact. Only because you are trying to make it so. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How did Al Queda tell the difference between the people in the WTC that were not trying to destroy Islam from those that did? Oh wait, they didn't care. While the term "ragheads" may not have been needed...And maybe not accurate. Every pic I have seen of OBL has him wearing one. His classification of all "ragheads" as evil, or their classification as the whole US as evil...Same thing really. Nope. I looked at it, and it had some good (Although already known) info. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Clinicly depressed people have been know to commit suicide. We don't need someone to take themselves out and leave a black mark on the sport. Great, glad for you, but unless you came to me with a statment from your shrink or an Aviation doc...maybe both. you would not be in the student program at any DZ I was S&TA or DZO. After you get your license thats your buisness. In this case a shrink does not know enough about the sport to tell if the person can do it...An Aviation medical doc knows what meds are approved...In this case I'd make them come back with letters from both. Plus you could always stop taking the meds, or change them and who knows what effects they will have...My GF's sister just tried to off herself. She quit taking her meds and instead took 30 sleeping pills. This is serious shit folks...People die doing it, and if you have a medical condition that might cause problems (Suicide for being depressed fit in here), or taking medications that could effect your performance...you should not jump till you are cleared. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Uh this is an AVIATION activity. From the FAR's A FLIGHT Doc is the only one that can really tell you what meds are allowed. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would have some issues taking a clinicly depressed person on a skydive. I would have the same issues with teaching them how to shoot a weapon. I would ask an aviation Doc. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

3:2:0 3...need I really get into that? 2 jumps a tandem and a two way with HeatherB. 0...I don't drink "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah in a single engine plane with me as the pilot... You know that thing up front is just a big fan to keep the pilot cool right???...don't believe me? Just watch him sweat if it stops turning. Any Muti pilots want to explane to a single fan guy why you would keep flying on one engine instead of finding an airport and putting it down? I would think the wear on a pilot over 1.5 hours of fighting a twin on one would become a pain in the ass. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

One reason is that when in flight the loop is held open and right by the toggle...I have heard of this a couple of times. It is this reason I don't grab for anything I don't see. I don't even stow the extra line...I just make damn sure to clear it before I grab my toggles. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The excess brake line went into a knot and that caught on the guide ring on the riser correct? Sounds like you need to make sure that not only do you finger trap the line, but that you also tack it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are already getting your answers from everyone else here. If you want to do FF...Then do FF and learn to coach that. Leave the RW coaching to those that want to be good at RW and want to teach it. My answer to what level do you need to be? Well I'll just say this...If you are looking to have the MINUMUM skills needed...You are not at the level I would give you a student to work with. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree flips just add to the danger, add to the wear on the gear, bad for the video and most students have no clue you did one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep thats it...Not a BIG issue, but still an issue. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Already served. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

While I agree with your rant....Comparing the same indicies over different periods will give you a basic idea of if they are getting better or worse. These numbers show that the unemployment rate is going down. As long as they use the same data to record both numbers then it is good data even if it does not give the whole picture. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, I think that it is MOSTY cycle..Both up and down. (Of course Im not Greenspan so what the hell do I know?) I DO think that policies can limit the effects of the drop or rise. I also think that it takes time for any policy to have an impact. The only really quick way to adjust the ecomony is something like a terror attack..And it did. However some people think that we were starting into a dip even in the last days of Clintons Addm. Again, While I can grasp ideas and have opinions I'm not all that when it comes to economics. This post was just to see you guys jump through hoops saying it means nothing, and that Bush had nothing to do with it...And I find it funny that you particulary blame Bush for everything that happens, but will not give him any positive credit. Its his fault that the prison in Iraq had some soldiers doing stupid things, but the better economy is not his doing? That is a giant double standard you have. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its this kind of thing that screws up polls... What part of this was hard to understand? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I try to get stable and get the drouge out as fast as I can. I want that drouge out there as soon as I can. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ah, no. Yes I have said that the economy is effected by many things..Such as war. And I have said that policies need time to take effect. Do I think the Bush plan had something to do with this recovery? Some yes, all no. In fact if you had READ the first post you will see. Where in there did I say it was all Bush's plans? I reread it, and I still can't find it. In fact I say Partly due to a normal cycle. Which I really do believe. Do I think that Bush's ADMINISTRATION has had some positive influance in the economy...Yes, but the real test will be next year or even the next two years, not right after a program is put into place. I think we are just begining to see a recovery based off of the plans, and like I said the normal cycle. But if you Bush haters want to blame him for everything, then you need to give him credit for the good stuff..Some thing they and you just can't seem to do. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Meet the press. About a mth ago. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

ding ding correct. And I'll have you know I have had that a LONG time, and a Whuffo friend gave it to me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334