Ron

Well living in Zhills you will know a few more things. 1. The City never asked the people on 6th street what they thought...They should have been asked. A 1987 ordinance that deals with requests for street name changes. The ordinance says any property owner living on a street, or whose property abuts the street, may request a name change. It also says ALL property owners on the street must approve the name change. Not ALL of them wanted the name change...It should have stopped right there. 2. I have never been to a city where MLK was in a good neighborhood...And trust me 6th ave by the Airport, the Otis Moody neihborhood, is NOT a good neighborhood. (Unless you like crack). and several people were afraid that that would lower home values....And it did. When the street did get changed several homes on that street went up for sale. 3. The petition that was started to rename the street. was started by a woman, Irene Dobson, didn't even LIVE in the city limits. And it had only 100 signatures...Most of which were from people who DID NOT live in the city...Why would a petition from non residents of a city be taken into account to change a CITY street? I say we start a petition to change Pennsivlana Ave. in DC. to Freefall lane. 4. The opposition got almost 500 people who LIVE in the city to sign a petition to block it... A woman who didn't live in the City got a petition of 100 people most of which did not live in the City to change a name of a street in a city they didn't live in. The name change was done against a City ordanance, and in fact it was a surprise to some of the people who lived on the street. 500 people (Who lived in the city) signed a petition to change it back. Council members lost elections over this and the next board changed it back. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

RSL's have also killed people. Do a search. And in EVERY fatality that an RSL could have prevented...Better training could have done the same thing...But in EVERY RSL death, the guy did everthing right and the RSL still killed them. A saftey device that is not needed, and can be replaced by better training that can kill you...I don't think is all that safe. Here I did if for you Man I love RWS...Better training not just added saftey devices. Also RSL's have casued fatalities. Just pointing this out...Do a search...I have said all I am gonna say...Hell when it comes to RSL's I have said it about 100 times. Like I said this has been beaten to death...do a search. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And how many times have you done it? I bet not many. And it is not natural. It will be the last thing you think about in a high stress situation. And how many people have you seen not collapse their slider cause they forgot when they first started jumping them? Many. In a high stress situation I really doubt that a person will have the presence of mind to think "Hey, I have two out...I'd better disconnect that RSL!" It will be more like..."OH SHIT!!!! WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT!!!!" It is for this very reason that pilots have checklists for emergencies...It has been shown time and time again that in a high stress situation that we focus on the serious issue, and glaze over the tiny steps... You don't have a checklist. People scew up the normal cutaway...Do you really think that you will remember to disconnect something that you never dissconnect under canopy, when in a very rare malfunction, while being super stressed.... I'm not sure I would remember, in fact I doubt I would. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about an option for its a stupid program, a waste of time, and a waste of students money? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Al Queeda are not the only people killing people. Think west bank. Yes, yes Jihad has two parts self and others...I could not care about people doing anything to themselves, I DO have an issue with a guy strapping a bomb on himself and killing peope at a bus stop....Thats not an internal Jihad. You know exactly what form of Jihad I was talking about. Hey, as soon as they quit trying to kill me I'll quit trying to defend myself by killing them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you do CRW? Do you jump a high loaded eliptical? Is it a shyhook? Do you jump a camera? Do you have an AAD? A. do search. B. Well, I would say keep it until you have a cutaway and pull both handles. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Last time I'm going to type this here. To be a religious war you only need one side "doing it for God". The Muslim estremists...In your view the Sunni's only, are waging a JIHAD (A religious term) against anyone not Muslim. All I have ever said is the MUSLIM EXTREMISTS will need to be wipped out. Not ALL muslims, but the ones that wish to engauge in JIHAD. And yes pictures of kids with both arms being blow off will not make our job easier and it will make Al Queeda's much simpler. Just as the next AQ attack on the US will encite us to push harder. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

See now thats what I was thinking. Right, I mean if one goes and you don't know why yet...I'd get the hell down. I mean if it was a fuel contamination (Which I knw this was not), your other engine could crap out as well...Gee I wonder if you sweat more with both fans out in a twin than just the one in a single? This is not just a lesson in academics for me...I am most likley going to start work on my twin rating here soon. Hench the question. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There are enough that the US went into Afganistan. There are enough that there has been hundreds of years of bloodshed over the "holy land". Seems to be that there is enough. No, its a war of Islam extremists vs anyone thats not an Islamic extremist. If one side attacks another over religion, and the other just defends itself and destroys the threat. all the time not caring about any religious aspect of it...As long as one side keeps fighting in the name of God..Its a religious war. Maybe OBL has other motives...(As do ALL religious leaders in my opinion) but they guys who flew the jets into the towers were doing it in the name of Allah, not to end dictatorship, capitalism, ect...they did it in the name of God, and that makes it religious. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Cause you let them get you riled up. The simple fact is my take on this is just like any other medical condition...Get cleared to jump before you jump. And Doctor know more than me, you, them on the subject. Me saying they are safe to skydive on Zoloft or depressed is uneducated at best, and possibly criminaly negligent. You or their opinions are also not as good as a Dr's. Simple fact is people jump when they are injured or sick and know damn good and well they should not. Only a DOCTOR can make the call as to if the person is mentally healthy enough or if the meds could pose a problem. In this case...As with ANY medical condition the answer to the question of "Can I jump on "X" med or with "X" condition?" My answer is ALWAYS "Check with your Doctor". How hard is that to grasp? You and I don't know enough to make that call...Only your Doctor can. Any responsable Instructor would make a student on ANY medication, or ANY medical condition that could cause problems to get a release from their Doctor...It really is that simple, and that really is my only issue. Whats wrong with this raising a red flag? Bring up the concern, and if the person has been cleared to jump by his Doc...Then there is no issue...If he can't get cleared by his doc, then his doc knows better than you, I, them, and a thousand others who are not Doctors. Look I'm done with this...It's clear some people are taking this as a personal attack on them...(Michele comes to mind). Fact is if you are a licensed jumper. It's none of my buisness what you are taking..But as an instructor, if you are my student it IS my concern. And I treat Depression just as I would treat any other illness...Lets compare to Diabeties which I know all about. (I'm a type II). If a student came to me and said "I am diabetic/clinicly depressed and I have to take meds". I would ask for a Dr's note before I take them up. I would not try to play Dr. and diagnose the problem, and possible issues...I would let a DOCTOR do that. Like I said I'm done here...It is a medical condition that only a Doctor can make the call on if it is safe to jump while experiencing, or under medication for. Students don't know enough of skydiving to say its OK, and Instructors don't know enough about depression and medications to say it's OK...Only a Dr. can make that call. Whats wrong with making them make that call? Answer: Some are afraid that their Doctor would not clear them, so they would rather not ask. Has your doc cleared you? I will not relpy to it, but I would like to know... Anyone else want to bitch, bicker, complain, send death threats...ect send it to PM. I'm done. By now I would hope everyone knows my stand and why. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Did I say to use them? No I said "It may come down to that" Fact is I think we are all fucked. I think that this war between Muslim extremists and the people they attack will plundge us into a world war. Muslim VS Christian. They are trying to get nuclear weapons...some say they have them (Which I don't buy into...If they had them, they would have used them already.) It will take one side eradicating the other. Im not saying lets nuke them...but I am saying they are not going to go away, or leave us alone. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You still have not shown that there was no credible threat of WMD's...And the simple thing is SH was not playing nice and ignoring the UN. So your "Illegitimate war" is still invalid as the first time you said it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well the world didn't end from the two on Japan now did it? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Did I say scare me? But there is a line between threat and having done damage I would rather be on the safe side of. I would have rather prevented 9/11 then reacted to it. No, but the lives of the people killed while we wait...their world does end. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But one of the reasons they hate us is Cause we are Christain...And they think we are corrupt. They also feel that it is their duty to convert or kill us. OBL's letter makes that quite clear. Now if we didn't support the occupation of what they consider to be the holy land (Which everyone seems to think they own). If we did not have a presence in their lands... Well it would DELAY the fighting. But the extremeists do hate us, and feel they need to kill us. So it's now instead of later. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I know at least one really good skydiver who is on Anti-depressants...He is in my opinion one of the best in the world. However, he was cleared to jump by his Dr. I'm not saying that the FAA is right about selective serotonin reuptake inhibiting (SSRI) medications being an automatic grounding. But a person who is on them has two strikes against them: 1. They are depressed. Depression makes people do really stupid things. 2. They are on medications that can have very negative effects. And worse changes in medication can have negative effects. If a person can produce documentation (or the FAA changes its position) then I would have no problem letting someone taking SSRI's on a jump. However, until then due to the possible dangers, and the very real danger of loosing a law suit exactly like night jumps wrote. What I can't understand is how people think that it is any different than any other illness that might ground someone. And I really don't get how people think that a STUDENT with this issues is OK. The thing is I do understand it...Since a good number of people have been or are on Anti-depressants they seem to think its ok. Well like I have said before if they can show me a Dr's note saying they are OK, then its OK...Just like every other illness. If the USPA wanted to earn so of its keep...Maybe they should try and get the FAA to allow SSRI's for a class three, or just let them sign off a medicall for skydiving. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Lets take this to PM. remove the PM block on me please. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bingo....Just like any other illness that might limit participation in this sport. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bingo.....But then again I have had a medical since I was 20. So I would not go on Meds that would make me lose it anyway. And you think someone that is depressed and unmotivated should be learning to skydive? And how about this: Should a guy that feels like a vegtable be allowed to jump? So have them bring a note...I already said that if they brought clearance from the Dr's I would take them, but not before. You think that there might be a reason they are not allowed? No, I am biased against people who might be a risk. If they can produce evidence that they are not a risk..Then cool beans. But I would not take a person up who has any other medical condition that could kill them (heart disease ect)...why would I just accept Depression? Nope, but then again an alcoholic is only really dangerous when they are drinking..And I would not let someone on the plane that was drinking if I could help it. Such as?????? Heart disease...Unless you have medical signature,not getting on my plane. Epilepsy...With out a clean bill of health not getting on the plane. Diabeties (Which I have, and have a medical) not getting on the plane. What part of this being a high risk, high speed sport that people with known medical problems should be cleared to participate in before they start is hard to understand? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wrong didn't you post OBLs' letter to America? Seems like more than just land to me. Seems like he is telling us to convert or die. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh I don't know huh? Well I could say the exact same to you. You can't see the dangers since you are in the middle of it. you can't look objectivly on this topic (Just like the out of shape topic mths ago) since you feel its a personal attack on you. I think you would rather be right in your thoughts that you are a capable student and in defending that you are glossing over that while YOU may not have thought about killing yourself, or maybe not doing it jumping the earlier link I posted showed that MANY have done that. You can't see the clear logic in not letting someone who is depressed learn to skydive since you think its all about you. Its about: 1. A higher risk of suicide. 2. A danger of survival complacency. 3. Possible negative reactions to meds, or to changing of meds. 4. The litigation that would surley follow a suicide of a depressed person if the DZO and Instructors knew. If skydiving is OK while clinicly depressd what is your peoblem with makeing the person get a release? Simple, cause it would not happen. No Dr. is going to sign off for a depressed person to learn to skydive. I would have never taken you as a student. The risk is to high for both you and me. I'm glad someone took you, but I would not risk it. You think your high number of accidents has anything to do with your physical, and mental state...I do. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Gee which is worse, a guy sitting in an office (Bush) while some guy kills innocents, or the guy pulling the trigger (Kerry)... Gee I think the guy that pulls the trigger is worse. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I only want to kill the nutbags that want to kill me....I could not care if they are Muslim or not. However, the Muslim nutbags would kill me given the chance even though I am not religious. Simple way to live life...Leave me alone, and I will leave you alone. Mess with me, and I'll kill you. No its not enough to just be pissed off.. But to raise arms against us, or fund or support terroism against us, IS enough for me. I think a lot of that is sick individuals that are given absolute power over another..It happens all the time. Also having served in the military I can attest that we didn't get the best training. It was not bad, but it was not the best. And even the best training is nothing compared to war. I don't know how I would handle a guy that killed my friends. How would you handle a known killer of Americans...Lets say you were the guard that was watching over the Iraq's that killed, hung and burned the people in Fulijah (SP?). And I told you that sleep depravation and humiliation were allowed?... I can see how people could get carried away, that does not mean I approve of it, but I do understand it. He did lie about it...Either back then he lied about what he did and saw, or he is lying today about him not doing all of that...Both ways he is lying for political gain. Oh so just cause its been going on for 2000 years we should not do anything about it? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The difference is that those nut cases are killing specific people for actions those people did. The Islamic nutbags want to kill me for not praying to the same god. They are willing to kill as many as they need. All I'm saying is those that wish to harm us will have to be destroyed..I never said to kill all muslims..I said we are going to have to exterminate the radicals. They will never quit. I don't think you do..they chose their fate. Doing bad things when you have to, and doing bad things cause you can are different. Besides I don't want any man who when he has all that power to be a man that has willingly killed innocent people with his own hands, cause he could. And then lied about it for political gain. Very different. If it comes to that then we were forced. They don't need to kill 1% to get my attention...3000 people was enough,and knowing they would kill 3,000 a day if we let them is enough. You are saying Muslims...And I amsaying Islamic extremists..There is a big differeance between the two. Just like there is abig difference between a Christain and a Dr. killer. The battles ended...But the War is still raging today. Or do you think the whole Isam Vs. Jew's/Christian's is a new thing? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I never said it was not...But this is a religious war...For them it is a way to get into heaven and get a lot of virgins...Jihad is not about winning a war for them, its about fighting one. How do you fight an ememy that does not care if he wins as long as he takes a bunch of you out, he is doing his mission? This is not about land, or money. Its about them securing a place in the after life. Sometimes in war you have to do bad things...Simple fact is we are one of the only countries that play by the rules...Yes, we wrote most of them it seems, but here is a real life situation for you: You are walking down some street in Iraq. A crowd starts to split. In the middle of this split is a group of women and children. You are taking fire, not from them, but from the gunners HIDING behind them and shooting from between their legs. They are using the women and children as COVER. And the women are not being held there...They are standing there as a human shield....Do you shoot back? Do you risk killing the shields? Or do you stand there and seek cover yourself..(Hint: if you are the recipient of a close ambush...There will be none to be found). While your men and yourself get cut to pieces? Answer...you kill them, before they kill you. Now the US would never use women for shields (And the insurgents would not care anyway), but it is happening everyday in Iraq. Then they claim we just opened up on "civilians" "For no reason". War is fucked up, but when against an enemy that only wants to destroy you in anyway possible...shit happens. It may simply come to one of us...Christains or radical Muslims will have to dissapear. When one side decides to declare war based on religion, not money or land...Then it will not end till one of the religions are gone. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334