Ron

One more time...What they hell do you think "Serious consequences" are? Inspectors didn't work...We knoew he had WMD in 95 and the UN did nothing. The UN let him boot out the Inspectors in 98. The French never complied with the Embargo and sold stuff to Iraq all the time. Members of the UN were getting money from Iraq in the "food for Oil" program. Nothing the UN has done has worked. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

In 95 he was making new weapons...and the UN inspection team found that. In 98 they were booted out of the country. France was selling Iraq things against the embargo. So, those didn't work now did they? Uh, like they would just stick their hands up and come out? Nope, to get them we would have to go get them...just like we did. They can now stand trial. So you would want to try the same things we have been trying for 12 years that didn't work? Ya know my favorite definition of insanity? Doing the same thing time after time and expecting a different result. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It might give you some ideas...But you are missing the largest part....Try to explain skydiving to a whuffo. You can't. Without the experience...You are just making lame attempts to understand. It was not illegal...The UN voted for it, and so did the US Congress...So much for illegal. The UN is a paper tiger. They backed down and did nothing for 12 years. Wrong. the "cause" was Saddam not complying, and the UN doing nothing about it for 12 years. Look at the root cause...The international community not letting the coalition go into baghdad in 91. Then the UN doing nothing about it for 12 years. And you know nothing about those troops and honor. He never complied...EVER. He may have done some of the parts of the sanctions..But he had to PROVE it. And he never did. Plus, like I have said before the UN should have done something about it in 95 and not ignore it. I think they are a good idea in theory...But the application sucks. You have guys in the UN getting paid by Saddam, then Frence selling Iraq materials against the UN sanctions, and Members of the civil rights section are some of the worse on cilvil rights in the world. So I like the idea, but the application is shit. I also don't like the idea of a International body calling all the shots. So, I don't support or recognize the UN as jack shit. Then let the UN cry about it. They will never DO anything about it. Well again we don't agree...Where is the surprized emotiocon? That would mean that you would stop them by killing them if you had to? Would you protect your loved ones? I will. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What is "serious consequences" in your opinion? Sanctions? Already did that. Bombing? did it. Inspectors? Tried it. What else is there? Step 1...Got authorization from Congress...Congress is elected by the people...so step one done. Step 2. Who says we have to have permission from anyone? Did Saddam have permission to invade in 91? I must have missed him asking. Did The 13 colonies get permission to seek independence? Nope. You don't need permission from the international anybody to go to war. That is a choice reserved for the Government of that country. It is a sad day when a country gives up its rights as a country to an international group...One I might add that had members in violation of it's onw sanctions against Iraq. The UN, or the Hague only have as much power as the countries give them. Iraq was told to play nice and they didn't. They are organizations that only have the amount of power that you give them....And they can be told to pund sand if you like. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Point is he kicked out one team of UN inspectors...He did not want to comply and was doing everything he could to hide. We tried sanctions which France ignored. We tried Inspectors...Which he chased out. We tried threats...Which he ignored. For 12 years he could have complied....He didn't what part of ALLOW THE PRESIDENT TO USE FORCE is not easy to underrstand? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thoughts that have no experience in that area....So you make comments about subjects you don't know about often? As does the videos of people getting their heads chopped off. No, to comply he had to SHOW us he got rid of them...He never did that. In fact he did everything he could to make it impossible to prove he had done anything. United Nations Special Commission, or UNSCOM: From 1995: They even admitted to it. Charles Duelfer was the deputy executive chairman of the United Nations Special Commission. So they TOLD the UN they had them in 95. Also Saddam maneuvered UNSCOM out of his country in 1998, weapons inspectors had found a sizable portion of his arsenal but were vexed by what they couldn't find. It was his job to show what he did...But he booted the inspectors out. So HE DID NOT COMPLY. He had 12 years....Most people don't think he was ever going to comply. The UN and Congress didn't think he would without force. People make that choice everyday. Judges, Juries, leaders in combat. That is one part of the equation. Another is a basic religious difference. Another is economic. If your Boss tells you to do something and you don't....You get fired. People tend to not keep around people who don't follow orders or have the same set of ideas. Your boss wants you to do this, and you tell him you want to do that...You might just get fired. Nope, unless it gets to the point that you sit around while others are hurt and you will not do anything about it. If someone broke into your house....Would you stop them by force? We waited 12 years to really start shooting. I'll give anyone the chance at peace....But they do have to follow the rules laid out...Something that you seem to overlook is that Saddam was not following the rules. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

All he had to do was work with us...I mean if he DID comply what did he have to hide? Sanctions France ignored. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Anyone else find this funny: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The world waited 12 YEARS for Saddam to comply. The UN voted to use force. The US Congress voted to use force. If at anytime they didn't want to go down that path...They could have voted no. They didn't. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Same could be said for the young punk under a fast canopy...But I am still going to try and hold him together...Like I have several times before. Have compassion. Stupid people deserve some. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Saddam ignored the resolutions since day one. He had no intention of following them. In fact he only started to play along while troops were preparing to invade. And if they had not gone in and had gone home...He would have continued to ignore the rest of the worlds demands. Funny that some claim that the US launched an illegal war according to the UN...But that we went in based off of the UN not doing shit about their own rule for 12 years. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree with you 100%... How can ANYONE call the US attack not justified? He had 12 YEARS to follow the terms of the UN resolution. The UN backed down in part due to the "food for Oil" program linning the pockets of the UN members. One of the largest countries that was against the war was France...A country that was selling Iraq parts against the econiomic sanctions. Gee I wonder why France didn't want to go to war with Saddam? Answer: $$$$$$$ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You know nothing about the military. You know nothing about honor and giving of yourself so others have it better. Your "education" missed some very important lessons if you think the Military is like the movies you learned it from. You are speaking about an area you know nothing about. So given the choice you would rather which one die? An American or someone from another country? You have to pick one....Not picking is not an option. I would rather NO ONE die...But if I have to pick I'll side with the US to live. I don't care what issues you have with me. And I do think that your personal issue with me makes it so you will bicker with me on anything...I could say the sky is blue and you would have a different opinion. You have no proof that anyone knew they were false. My friends that have come back from the region have told me that they are quite happy. Maybe you should get some info other than what Moores movies? And it was an act of war. I don't hold them as "evil" for killing those people. They did what they thought was right. However people do have to live with the actions they set into motion. And since most people are not happy about them killing all those people, they will have to pay a price for it. They started a religious war...RELIGION is a true evil. More people have died in the name of "My God over yours"...Than any other reason. Man get off the oil Bull Shit. That and the 200 election...Move on. You might want to use that as your new personal slogan...MOVE ON. Simple fact: If Bush 41 had handled it, or Clinton, or the UN had not ignored the situation for 12 YEARS, or Saddam had actually complied with the resolution....We would never have had to do anything. If Bush had waited...How long? Another 12 YEARS? Not all Managers are leaders. Managers organize, plan budgets, delegate tasks, ect. Thats bad, but still not tough...Try who lives and who dies. Oh since you have TAKEN CLASSES you are able to understand?...Again..Bull Shit. Classes give you tools, and ideas, but that does not mean they take in your brain, or you understand the big picture. You have had the oportunity to sit in a class and listen to a teacher talk about hard choices and leadership. You have read books about it maybe...But that does not mean you can do it. You should seek a job hugging a tree not at all conected with the real world. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What like another UN resolution that he can ignore? Economic sanctions that France can violate? Wait another 12 years? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Clear proof you were never in the military....People die in war. It's OK some people can't handle that simple fact. Simple fact....If SH had followed the UN resolution...none of this would have happend. Whatever...You will never understand leadership or hard choices. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You clearly have no idea about politics...If you make a threat and dont back it up...you are nothing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well if he had done what he was supposed to 12 years ago this whole issue would not matter huh? I don't believe that for a second. Really? I have not seen one attack in the US. Il give you a simple primer. Kerry COMMITED war crimes. Bush had soldiers under him do bad things. Kerry voted to do that. Kerry again. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

your party supports it...And wants to give them health care and drivers licenses. Maybe you know folks that would rather sit on welfare than get lower paying jobs? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your party supports it. Hell while they are here lets give them heath care and drivers licenses. Maybe you know that several Americans would rather sit on welfare than work lower paying jobs? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Uh he HAD WMD's....We have dead bodies to prove that. He had kept the ability to make more...And most importantly...He never complied with the UN resolution. Uh, he palyed the game for 12 YEARS!!!!! What makes you think he would play ball in two mths? And you and your type would have opposed action in two mths, ten mths, two years or another 12 years. Im glad we have a President that puts value on protecting the US from enemies. But I bet you would rather have a President that commited war crimes? Turned his back on his fellow soldiers? Can't make a choice and stick with it? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe you should get on John for his generalizations? I am a Rebublican and I don't want illegal aliens here to work in my company. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well if you gave that 7 year old 12 years to put his shoes away, and him having not put away those shoes could kill many people....Then its not the same thing is it? Its not that small. SH had WMD's he was supposed to give them up and PROVE to us he did. He didn't do that. they are doing it anyway. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Call me silly, I tend to put my fellow citizens over others. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That does not make it illegal. The UN thinks to highly of itself. And thats funny when you consider that the UN has proven to be all hot air and nothing else. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, the intel said that he had WMD's...now that may have been wrong. But you can't claim he didn't have them, and you can't claim he didn't support terrorism. You also can't claim he abbided by the resolution since we had to chase him around to get the truth....And even then he was not giving it freely. Is it that hard for you to understand this? 1. He had WMD's and never showed what he did with them. Thus he was in violation of the resolutions FOR 12 YEARS. It was not our job to seach for them, it was his job to show us. AND there was intel that he still had them...Lets see, if I had something and was told to give it up, but never showed you I did it, and then a guy told you I still had it....Simple leap of logic there. 2. He supported Terroism. Or do you claim he did not? There are other reasons to remove him...But I don't need more than he never complied with the resolution, was suspected of WMD's, and supported terrorism. Still less than 9/11 Maybe, maybe not. You don't know. Thats the great thing...We have not had an attack on US soil...So would we have if Bush had not done anything? I only KNOW we have not. I also know we will have another. But you can't say that we are LESS secure. I know people that would disagree. Most are glad SH is gone. Now you just have the folks that are trying to grab power. Quote "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334