Ron

Then please explain why chuteless jumps are not much more common? They have been done, they have been done by a few people, they are repeatable. Fact is only time will tell, but I don't see this being anything more than a stunt and I very much doubt it will become a "reliably repeatable activity" like the other poster mentioned BASE. Time will only tell, but my money is on no. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

As skydiving becomes more "mainstream" older, less fit, and less athletic people participate. When you get older, you get hurt more. If you are out of shape, you can't be as active without risking injury. and if you are not athletic (I almost wrote coordinated instead) then you have a higher chance of making a mistake. Very few 80 year olds made a static line round first jump. Very few grossly out of shape people made a static line round jump. Very few uncoordinated people made a static line round jump. Add more people jumping, older people jumping, less fit people jumping, and less athletic people jumping and accidents are sure to rise. Add in that a student canopy of today would be considered ultra high performance 30 years ago and high performance 20 years ago. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Here is the point: "The first fixed object jumps (before Carl) were stunts also. Look at the activity now, it is a reliably repeatable activity" Landing a WS like this will never be a "reliably repeatable activity". And then looking at all the jumps made without a chute and putting it on in freefall... Those are a "reliably repeatable activity" and they really didn't change the sport at all either. Yes, it showed what was possible but it still remains a stunt. This will be a cool stunt and if he survives it may get others to try something similar, but I don't see it becoming anything like BASE and being a "reliably repeatable activity". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't see this as 'bringing new boundaries'. This is a stunt being pulled off by a stuntman in perfect conditions with some specialized equipment and a specialized setup. This is a cool stunt, but not something that will change the face of the sport IMO. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1. Be honest about your skills. You think we assume that at 30 jumps you are a rockstar? Anyone that has organized or worked with students has a pretty realistic expectation of younger jumpers abilities. 2. Don't do zoo loads. It is better to do a two way than a clusterfuck 10 way. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Jim is in CA... San Diego Dave is in TX... Tyler I think. Pm me your contact info and I will send it to them "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wow! Maybe in the 80s it was. Today its unacceptable and dangerous in the pattern to do s turns. They are unpredictable and do not fit in the standard pattern. Why are s turns bad, but a 270 ok? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So therefore it is a pointless bandaid? Nothing more than a PR exercise? Not pointless. 1. Bigger turns build more energy, screw up and you get hurt more 2. Bigger turns require more skill And the big one IMO 3. Bigger turns cause a bigger traffic problem. A 90* turn is safer for traffic than a 270* turn. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It also shows mile high to be antagonistic. So before when the dorks at quiet skies were saying the plane was buzzing them, I tended to think the dorks at quiet skies were full of it. But now that mile high has shown an antagonistic streak..... I may believe the QS folks a bit about MH's actions being antagonistic. So, MH has lost some of its deny-ability and QS has gained some believability. None of this might matter in the end, but a poor winner gloating is never a good move. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.dailycamera.com/...es-over-prank-i-love Stupid move by Mile high..... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Normally I don't like lurkers. If I have video, I hate lurkers. The reason is simple, too often the lurker turns the other persons skydiving into THEIR skydive. I have seen lurkers fly between the tandem and the camera and geek the camera, I have seen lurkers start trying to show off how fast they can turn a 360*. Tandem skydives should be about the PAX no one else. But, if you are going to jump with me as TM.... You will be personally vetted by me. I will personally know your skills and will know your ego. Jump numbers does not really matter to me, I had two hotshots almost kill me on a tandem with their friend... Both very experienced jumpers but a solid min of thinking these idiots were going to kill me. I would have pulled to get away, but one was always above us. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The fact we have not had an accident in two months means absolutely nothing statistically speaking. Wendy is correct, swooping needs to go the way of CRW. As for how we see death.... When a guy with 3-4k jumps hooks it in under a 2.0-1 loaded canopy. I see that as a sad situation, but he knew the risks and had the experience to make the call to do what he did. When a guy with 300 jumps dies on a 2.0-1 loaded canopy, I see that as a failure of the sport, a failure of the USPA, a failure of his friends. But until you can get the USPA, and his friends to care more about his health than his ego BEFORE the accident.... You are not going to change anything. USPA has dropped the ball on this for over 10 years. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your memory is faulty. I don't see anyone bashing you, I do see you admitting that others might know more than you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

An unsolicited note in support of these camps: My wife is addicted to these camps... I think she has done 3 and has a 4th planned. She always comes back happy. As a personal note..... Hell, I have Open 8way experience (Silver medal in Open) and I thought about going to these just because it looks like fun. Where else are you going to be able to tunnel with World Class folks and learn some great skills with little to no organizing effort on your part? I ran an 8way team for two years (Dallas Rogue), and have coached 8way teams for years and both enterprises took a BUNCH of organization.... It is a very attractive idea to let someone else do all the BS and just show up and have fun. If you have ANY interest in 8way... This will simply be the best learning environment you could hope for and will be some of the fastest and best 8way you will ever do, unless you enlist. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Both programs have benefits and both have drawbacks. SL costs less than AFF. SL has a slower learning curve than AFF (I think this is a benefit, some see it as a drawback). SL focuses MUCH more on canopy control at the early levels (again, I see this as a benefit). If you have low clouds, you can often still do hop n pops and AFF students will be stuck on the ground. SL is often less expensive. AFF focuses much more on freefall skills. AFF has the benefit of an instructor that can physically help you while in freefall. AFF normally has a faster progression. No matter what method you take.... You will most likely consider it to be the best method. I learned SL and have instructor ratings in SL, AFF, and Tandem. If I had a child that wanted to learn to jump... This is the program they would go through (If I didn't have a tunnel near me): 1. 2 Tandem jumps with me. This would teach them basic freefall position and freefall turns, pulling and canopy control and pattern. This would also let them experience skydiving and decide if they want to continue. 2. 5 Static line jumps working on deployment and canopy control. 3. AFF starting at level 4/5. 4. 10 hop n pops to work on canopy control. If there was a tunnel..... All the above steps would still be there, but I would add 30 mins of tunnel at step 2. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Definition of a skygod. A Person that does not Have the experience yet claims he is 'smarter' or 'better' and therfore he is the expert without the real credentials to back it up. That is you. Ah, so you are unwilling to actually put your money where your mouth is..... Another charictaristic of a skygod. And that is PURE crap. I never said you were not entitled to have an opinion. I simply said that since you have. I relevant experience then your opinion is not worth as much as someone that has that experience.... Simple logic really. You are entitled to an opinion, I think your opinion is not based in facts. Simply put.... You are a guy with a strong opinion and nothing but ego and hot air to back it up. As soon as Someone dares challenge your superiority, you insult them. The fact I offered you a deal and you negotiated in bad faith and then even backed out says all I need to know about you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If the plane was registered as a light sport, then three things have to be taken into consideration: 1. The rating of the pilot. If the jumper was paying, or the pilot recieved compensation, then the pilot needs a commercial rating. The FAA does not play with this... To go so far as me as a private pilot cannot even get free gas to fly for a charity. But it is perfectly legal for me to take you up as a private pilot as long as I pay my 'fair share' of the cost of the flight. 2. The certification of the plane. Without going into great detail, there are two basic types of Light Sport planes; Factory built and Amateur built. You can only do commercial ops in a factory built. But if they are not paying, this does not apply. 3. The operational limitations of the aircraft. For example, my plane spells it out specifically that I cannot tow a glider, banner, or use it as a jump plane. So, you could not jump my plane period... Now, I could petition the FAA for a new letter and they might give it to me.... Or not. So if this was a light sport, the operational limitations letter would have to be looked at to see if it is allowed or prohibited. Then the pay/free aspect would have to be looked at. Depending on that would depend on what type of aircraft catagory and then what type of pilot rating "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Tell ya what... I'll make this deal. I'll STILL donate my 'fat tax' income ALL YEAR with the condition that you match it. Or, I'll donate my 'fat tax' income and all you have to do is admit that it is impossible to truly know what something requires without having done it. Basically admit you were wrong. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

CA Dave is a super qualified instructor. Havi g worked at SDD for 3 years I can tell you that in all my 19 years of skydiving you would be very hard pressed to find a more professional DZ. the student program there is the best I have ever worked in short of the military. And the simple answer to your question is: No and yes. No, you are just as likely to get hurt on a solo jump and maybe more likey to get hurt... My wife broke her ankle with something like 70 jumps. You just do not have the depth perception and timing yet... This is why we would put you on really big canopies that are more forgiving. But, the fact of 4 legs trying to land at once... Well, that complicates things as well. I'd bet that if you compared the number of tandem jumps to the number of solo student jumps.... You would find less broken tandem students "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ok so for 1 year: I will forward any 'fat tax' payment and you will forward the difference between a sport pack and a tandem pack for every tandem pack you do? Of course this depends on me still doing tandems (which I do) and you still packing them. Do you? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Perfect, so how long of a period? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Unless the SHIPPER requests something like that... It is not going to happen. Imagine this: I knew you were getting a new canopy, so I called claiming to be you and asked it to be shipped instead to the vacant house down the street from me. If FedEx did that, then they would be responsible for the loss.... And that is not even taking the shipment out of the Country which requires a lot of customs paperwork (CI, SED if over 2.5k... etc). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Again unlike you, I have never called you a name, nor even hinted at it. I have simply said that logic dictates that you cannot be truly knowledgeable about something you have not done or experienced. I have asked you to admit that, which you have refused to do. For you to claim that a bigger person is not more work enough to warrant a larger compensation would be the same level of argument if I claimed that a tandem packjob is not anymore difficult and therefore not worth the extra pay. But again, I'll make the offer. YOU pick the time period and we BOTH will contribute to the charity of YOUR choice the difference between every tandem/sport packjob you do and a big/normal tandem jump that I do... Deal? Wanna make it a year? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Uh, yeah, You are using ONE data point, and even that data point is flawed. So the only thing that matters is the amount of money the DZ gets? Doesn't that sound even worse since your only concern is money? Guess what? The DZ makes more when they charge the fat tax as well... Using your own logic, then it is fine. "Pretty fucking good" != to actual knowledge. So if I claimed that since I have seen 20 sport packjobs in a day that I am experienced enough to know what packing 20 tandems is like... You would accept that? And if I then made the claim that packing 20 tandems is not nearly as difficult as say... cleaning a toilet, you would accept my "knowledge" of the subject? I call BS. And that sentence speaks your attitude perfectly. You have not done it, but you THINK you know more than people who have, and if people do not agree with you, you insult them. Again: One big difference between us..... I have not tried to call you names. I have not tried to belittle your work , claiming to know more than you. I have not said you have bad morals. Well the real definition of skygod is claiming you know more than you do. And that is really simple...And the same reason you charge more for a tandem packjob. It is more work. But again, I'll make the offer. YOU pick the time period and we BOTH will contribute to the charity of YOUR choice the difference between a tandem/sport packjob you do and a big/normal tandem jump that I do... Deal? Wanna make it a year? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah, I didn't get where we was coming from either. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334