Ron

Bingo. Maybe the poster should quit expecting treatment like Disney or Carnival at a DZ. It is not that kind of business. In fact most of his/her rant seems to be because he/she is not being treated like a dollar sign. If he/she was only seen as a dollar sign his/her ass would be kissed all the time. Like it or not, this sport see's plenty of young hotshots show up, brag about how they will be the best, and then disappear and are forgotten. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This belief is not correct. They save more lives than they take, but please don't ignore that they add complexity and HAVE contributed or even flat out caused injuries and fatalities. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ignoring the possible dangers makes little sense. Any balanced approach to a subject should list the good AND the bad and let the listener/reader decide. To ignore one side of the subject is not being honest. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I can only remember being asked about a log book 4 times. Two of those were at Perris. I have a log book.... I have not used it in years. My Neptune keeps track of my jumps and I keep a log in XL of my work jumps for pay issues. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thats OK, they multiplied by 3 to get the number they gave you But seriously.... You think it is much harder to lie, than just fill out a few extra jumps in your logbook? What proof does anyone really have if I present a logbook with 7k jumps in it? It is an honor thing.... both ways. And I would always rather be known as the guy that was really good for 100 jumps, than the guy that sucked with 5k. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree... The fact is that no one was insulting anyone except the son insulting others. The fact that the thread was locked is silly. But, there really was nothing else to learn and it was NOT a skydiving accident. Any further debate would be better on a ballooning forum. But, I have seen stuff like this happen before. Maybe you should ask the mod who closed it WHY before you assume it was just since the guy asked? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That is a really good point. Another thing that pisses me off is the guy that will skip buying an AAD talking about the cost, but will drop 1k dollars on tunnel time. While we are on it... people who spend several thousand a year and then don't have health insurance claiming it is too expensive. Some people's priorities are messed up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh, you are not the only one who ever talked about doing this....But like most things it is funny only in discussions around the bonfire and most likely would not be funny in real life. Not AFF rated are you? The chance of you pulling that off is close to zero if the AFF guy has half a clue. I had gone to places where people have treated me like a 'student' and I just never told them otherwise. One example was on of my female friends had this guy chasing her at a bar. He decided that he could get some 'safe' face time with her if we played a doubles game of darts.... Me and my GF and of course him and my female friend. Well... I don't play darts. Sure I know the concept of throwing a pointy thing at something and had thrown darts at a dart board before, but I know nothing about the games and had only tried to hit what I was aiming at. So when he asked me if I knew how to play, I honestly said "No". When my GF and I beat them, he looked a little pissed and challenged me that I said I had never played before... I told him I never have played before. He looked a little upset and challenged teams in a game of pool.... I broke and ran the table. He didn't look very happy, I just looked at him and said, "I have played pool before." It was funny, but going out and going to extremes to make someone look foolish is not cool IMO. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And we are skydivers and pilots and resent you saying we 'fly like jerks'. A smart person would not move next to an airport and then complain about airplane noise. Unless she owned her property before the 1940's... the airport was there first. As for caring about the quality of life.... She is only concerned with HER quality of life. She does not seem to care about the pilots and the skydivers that use that airport, or the pilots and skydivers that work at that airport. For HER quality of life... I suggest she move away from the noise. The airport was there first and the FAA and city have already pretty much said she has no case. And so does she. Luckily, we have the FAA and the city behind us. (BTW, I don't even live anywhere near there, and have never jumped in CO at all). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, because you can turn a radio down. If you 'turn the props down' you get a plane landing on your head. Also a teenager with a car stereo is not bringing much money into the local economy..... Can't say that about a busy airport. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Any satisfactory conclusion to this? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Move, I'll bet the airport was there first. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, it is the BOD is STILL failing today. I and others have been involved longer than you. Tried other routes.... was ignored. Only an idiot keeps trying to do something when the powers that be ignore them. Now you might have a little clue about how we feel when dealing with the BOD. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Leave it to Michael to wrap it up perfectly. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

NAUI Master diver Cave. Furthest back 2,400 feet, Longest Traverse 4,423 feet (Peacock). Wreck... South FL has just tons of them (Hydro Atlantic, Lowrance, Sucre..Etc) Hypoxic Trimix. Deepest 280 feet (Eagles Nest, FL). The pic is from Ginnie Springs. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A half measure and 10 years behind. And it does nothing to prevent a guy passing the class on a 1:1 loaded navigator and then jumping on a 2:1 Velo. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Funny, I never said at the expense of... I said the BOD favors and follows PIA and DZO's. That is not what you are claiming I am saying. But hey, others seem to understand what I am saying even if you don't and they seem to be agreeing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If the DZO's and PIA dont want something the BOD will not do it. And that is backed up by history. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That's one..... Congrats! But the majority are for the DZO's and PIA. If the jumpers get a benefit that is not the same as looking out for the jumpers. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Most schools (Read: DZO's) liked it. Yep, good for DZO's... That was kinda my point. The fact that jumpers also benefited was nice but the major restriction would have been on DZO's. Oh lord, that was for the DZO's and you know it. The fact that jumpers benefited was a nice addition but the restriction was going to hurt DZO's. I'll give you half credit for the 180 repack cycle... But last I checked the majority of the PIA wanted it. Again, the PIA supported it. Nice try. But I think you really just proved my point. "Show me some examples of the BOD representing jumpers and not the DZO's or PIA". Your examples have benefited DZO's or the PIA and to some extent jumpers, but not the jumpers over the DZO's or PIA. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The BOD's actions do not represent that. Like I said before show me some examples of the BOD representing jumpers and not the DZO's or PIA. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe, and I would hope so... But I have what 10k+ posts and have been around 18+ years, worked at 6+ DZ's...Etc. But when faced with a controversy you have two real public options: 1. Say nothing. 2. Take positive action like Tylenol did during the 1982 murders. #2 is easy if you have the funds and KNOW you are wrong (or will be seen as wrong). In this case I can see how the guy is not 100% sure he is guilty and he spent the money already. That makes #2 difficult. If I were him, I'd offer a refund minus shipping costs, or offer the 600 bucks back. But I can write a check for it and I am betting he can't. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Too bad that is not what I said. What I said is the BOD (note, not ALL the individual members, the collective board) cares more about representing the PIA and the DZO's than the individual jumpers. But I would welcome you to point out where the BOD sided with the jumpers and not the PIA or DZO's....... Nationals Competitors are not in position to pass rules to make canopy coaching mandatory.... So that is why they have not done it. The BOD IS and still has not done it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And weren't you also a part of the W/L BSR???? Not much action on that. We the jumpers need to realize that the BOD does not really care about the jumpers anymore. The USPA is an organization that, not by mandate but by history and by makeup, is for the DZO's and the manufacturer's. The reason is simple, only the DZO's and manufacturer reps can afford the time off to be on the board for the most part. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just search "Wingload BSR". Very easy to do and you will see I have been talking about the problem and what to do since 2003 that's almost 10 years now. Which is why the USPA should have started 10 years ago and actually done something not something half assed. Day late and a dollar short sound familiar? No it is not when they have been ignoring the problem and suggestions from its members for 10 years I have been involved... Mostly been ignored. I am tired of the USPA being owned by the DZO's, PIA and the manufacturers. My first suggestion was sent to the USPA almost 10 years ago. And you may remember that I had thrown my hat into the ring for the SERD position. I figured that *might* be the only way to get the USPA BOD out of the bed of the PIA and manufacturers..... But you will notice the guy selected happens to WORK for PD... So much for that huh? Nothing against AL... But the USPA just made a selection that shows how much PD owns the USPA BOD. Call me in 10 years and tell me about 'effort'... My phone number should not be hard to find, it was in your email inbox. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334