Ron

I have a Submariner. It is a functional watch that can be worn on a dive (I have taken it to 280 feet) or with a Tux (Last month). I received a bonus from work, so I bought it from a buddy used. I wear it pretty much every day. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

For me it seems that when each system is 'confused' that each system has a different reaction. to me it seems when a Vigil gets confused it fires. I don't like that. It seems that the Cypres shuts down. I personally would prefer it not fire than fire unexpectedly. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your WL would have been good information to give. A lightly loaded diablo might be fine, a mid to high loaded one would not be. If you are jumping a 170 now..... Going down to a 150 might not be a great idea on such a different canopy. The reports that it is very fast on toggles is bang on and if you are not used to it, it will not be something you enjoy. If you were looking at a 170, that might be a different subject. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do not buy anything till after AFF except for the gear the instructor tells you to buy. As for goggles and altimeter.... Never heard of a DZ telling a student they needed to buy an alti, you might want to check that information again. It would be very strange. Goggles, YES... Alti, strange. And no, I would not let you do AFF with a full face helmet. I would REALLY not let you do AFF with a flip up helmet. I have seen experts forget to close it or not close it correctly and I don't want you fussing around with trying to get it flipped up when you should be flying your canopy. Last reason, you don't know what you don't know yet. It would be VERY easy to waste money buying crap that you will never use again or find that you like something else much better once you know more. I wasted a bunch of money on a bunch of very stupid things... I would have been better off waiting a bit and buying once. There is a training program for a reason, follow it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Get them, they will not be a big deal. Yes they are more powerful, but not something that is impossible to learn. Just do two and three ways till you get used to them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Having lived in GA, FL, and NC.... In the summer they all suck and are hot unless you are in the mountains. I'd head to FL..... There are many DZ's to choose from and most are as large and as busy as the largest DZ in either NC or GA. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, your WORDS said that. "How can you possibly review processes and procedures if none exist? " By reading what you wrote. I have, and you clearly said, "And that was his intention and suggestion for procedure review" in post #34 of this thread To which I replied "You're assuming that there is not a process." To which you quoted and replied in post #44 of this thread, "How can you possibly review processes and procedures if none exist? " So YOU are the one off base here. YOU replied to ME about and QUOTED MY comment about there BEING a process while saying there was not one. So, you either forgot you said it, communicated like crap, or are trying to be difficult for some reason. Again, the student had THREE reviews and TWO appeals. Just because he didn't SEE it does not mean it didn't happen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about this process: 1. Instructor decides that the student is dangerous. 2. Instructors get together and discuss the situation. 3. Instructor tells student of their decision. 4. Instructor and student talk to Head Instructor 5. Student and Head Instructor talk to DZM and DZO. Wait.... That is EXACTLY what happened. #2 Consensus review. #4 Student pleads his case to supervisor #5 Student pleads his case to manager and owner. The student had THREE reviews and TWO appeals. Again, just because he didn't SEE it does not mean it didn't happen. You seem to act like if it is not on paper and does not end in a review board with some governmental power like the NLRA and NTSB that it just could not exist. Nope. Well, there is the first "review" of the appeals process. No, you are way off base here. You claimed it when you said, "How can you possibly review processes and procedures if none exist? " He claims there was no review. There WAS a review he just didn't SEE the process. YOU also didn't see that there was a process since apparently there were not forms filled out in triplicate and no one had to wear a robe to judge the case. Just because he and YOU didn't see there was a process.... Does not equal there was no process. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Without video for us to look at.... Well you get what you get. It is possible you are causing it.... There are other possible reasons as well. 1. Is tail getting down on exit, or is (s)he in the way of IC and ridding high? 2. Are you getting yanked out the door? This can cause a whip reaction that puts energy into the formation? First thing we need to do is get rid of the idea that exits are static events. They are fluid and ever changing. If you think there is only one move on exit.... Your wrong. There is an *ideal* move, but lets be honest ideal rarely happens. If we approached blocks like most people do exits, we would have 4 people doing their own thing and totally ignoring what the other three are doing and totally ignoring what the formation is doing. We just don't do that, we have pictures that we are looking for during a block move and we adjust our move from *ideal* based on what picture we see at each stage. The best teams constantly adjust and have no set pictures... They have so much awareness and so much experience that they are constantly making adjustments...... You do this too, think of all the fall rate adjustments you make on a skydive. They, being PRO's, just do more and better. I am willing to bet you could have airspeed line up in the door and allow me to just push them out without an exit count and they will still pull off the exit. It is because they know that an exit count is just a guide and that the real exit happens as it happens and they "make the play" to make it right. So.... What SHOULD a Bow exit look like? You have to know this before you can assume one person is screwing it up. Point... Highest and his center point should be between the 12 and 1 o'clock position. I should be able to CLEARLY see his rig as if he were flat and not on the hill. His foot should be the LAST thing on the door for the entire group. If you push out it will rotate, if you launch early it will rotate, if you get yanked out... Guess what? Yep, it will rotate. OC... Should be 9 o'clock. He should work on trying to be at 10 o'clock and making damn sure he is square with the wind. He should also blast off the plane enough to make a hole for IC's fat ass to get through. IC should be 3 o'clock and work to get out, get presented. Tail should be LOW almost like he pulled the formation off the plane. If he is high.... Well lets just say this is the first thing that should be fixed, because the rest is crap till this is fixed. He should also think about a little left on exit to help kill any rotation... But his first and most important job is to put downward tension on the formation. Everything else is secondary... And I mean everything. I have seen tail exits (by see I mean done) where I didn't get the right grip or even didn't present well and rolled on my side. As long as I was DOWN (and fixed it quick before the key) the exit still launched. So, post a pic, or better yet a video and then we can really get into it. Again, someone else said "Don't get drug out"... and that is true because you getting yanked out will cause you to over run your position, but you do need to be the LAST to leave the plane. for me, that was my right foot was basically left in the door till I was in freefall... then we keyed it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You're assuming that there is not a process. Do you know a single DZ where a student is given 'the talk' without any discussion between the instructor and the head instructor or the GM DZO? I don't. Just because he had not SEEN the discussion, does not mean it didn't happen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If they did think you were safe, then they have a duty to not let you continue. They have my respect for making that call.... It is not an easy call to make and none of us want to turn a person away. It is a step never taken easily. Blaming others is a sure sign of their failure. Who do you think I am going to put my faith in... A disgruntled student or an entire DZ? Without you giving details.... No one can properly respond to your claims. 1. That DZ HAS a good reputation (I don't know the DZ) since they took the hard path and grounded you over the easy path and letting you ay them to continue to fail. 2. There IS an appeal process. The head instructor, manager and owner all were involved in it. Yes, I am better qualified than the student to tell if they are able to continue. The number one reason is I have no ego involved in the decision. What makes your opinion more valid than the head instructor, DZM and DZO???? There is a process. At the DZ in question, you failed that process. At the other three you claim to have jumped at you seem to not have failed. Fuck that. When it has become clear that a person is a danger to themselves or others I am not going to let them continue to be a danger till they come to that conclusion for themselves. From your own statement... This DZ tried to explain it to you, "Shortly, the head instructor (whom I had never met) asked me to take a walk with him. We talked about my previous jump and then what he said to me left me stunned. “You need to be looking for another sport” At first I could not tell if he was making a suggestion or telling me I could not jump there. But over the next 30 minutes or so, I was introduced to the operations manager and one of the owners. It became clear I was “out”. I asked for one more jump, but to no avail. " And it seems you didn't want to listen. "What did he say? Is this a joke? I am looking him dead in the eye trying to figure out what to say, or what to do. Hmm, he is serious. My response was, “I don’t want to look for another sport, I want to skydive”. Again without specifics it is impossible to tell if you were treated badly at the first DZ. But when given the blind choice of listening to a disgruntled student or the head instructor, GM, and DZO.... I will side with them. So unless you can provide details..... I think they did the right thing. I am glad you learned to jump... I have to wonder what if anything you told the other three DZ's and why there were three other DZ's. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, tunnel time is like riding a bike and trying to claim it is the same as a motorcycle. You know what is even more ridiculous? 300 jumps. Agreed. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

False. I have several hundred hours tunnel time and have still been on teams (that I trained with in the tunnel) that had a funnel. Got it, you were trolling. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is false, one is ridding a bike in traffic the other is ridding a bike on a track.... Both are riding a bike, manipulating the controls of a BIKE. That has nothing to do with tunnel v skydiving. The tunnel does not have gear, it does not have a time limit, it does not have an exit, it does not having spotting, it does not have most of skydiving. It only teaches a very small aspect of skydiving, body flight. Important yes, but not the only thing. Your motorcycle analogy traffic vs track would be like jumping at a multi-plane boogie or doing a solo out of a Cessna. Making it more of a joke. And you can't learn that in the tunnel... You can learn that in freefall. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Never. But the point is you still can learn the mechanics of how to stop a spin or do a rollover in the tunnel. Understand, I agree that the mechanics can be taught but that I still think replacing tunnel for skydives is a terrible idea. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No one said anything differently. What we have said is it should not supplant real skydiving. There is SO much more to being an AFFI than just the ability to fly. There is no pressure in a tunnel. If you screw up, you can just reset. I free fall there is a large planet moving at you, and if you screw up.... It is still going to kill you. I learned spin stops and rollovers at the Bragg tunnel. Again, no one has said that some of the skills could not be learned in the tunnel. We are saying that there are other skills that the tunnel cannot teach. The tunnel is not going to teach you anything about exits and that is a major part of AFF. And would you allow a guy to be a rock climbing instructor is all he ever did was climb on an indoor wall? Your motorcycle example is false. You are still riding a motorcycle, not ridding a bike and using that experience to claim motorcycle credit. Those that support this seem to forget that being an AFFI is more than just the ability to fly THEIR body. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is nothing better you could have done. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't see anyone saying that it is not valuable, just saying that lowering the requirements of actual skydiving for a SKYDIVING instructors rating is a bad idea. Should we allow tunnel time to fulfill the requirements for licenses? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You mean like the BOD and the USPA demo team? Like the BOD and changing the age of skydivers? The fact the BOD has set up a poll means nothing; They can easily just ignore it, like they have ignored member input for years... Hell, decades. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

As I stated before... I thought that was already required. If it is not... Then I think it is an obvious step in the right direction. I could even see waiving that for a rated tunnel instructor... Since the main aspect is the ability to teach. Same thing with a licensed teacher. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just an FYI.... If you are a FS team and come out to compete on that SDR and want to stay and train (either complete the draw, or just train) the DZO will give you standard team rates on Sunday. So, you can make it a weekend and train instead of driving or flying home! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Forgive me here... I am not an IE. I thought you already had to have the coach for a year first? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

While I agree with your intent..... The bolded part is not really realistic. I mean there are only four instructional methods: SL, IAD, T, and AFF. Tandem really has nothing to do with an AFF rating. In fact some TI's I have seen trying for the rating actually have a harder time than others. SL, IAD. While it would help some... How would a guy at Perris get and actually USE a SL or IAD rating. The rating itself without the Exp would be worthless, IMO. So while I agree with the intent, I don't think making an instructor rating for a year mandatory is really workable when those ratings ar SL, IAD, or T. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I am willing to bet that the guys doing those jumps had more than two hours of tunnel time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

While I disagree with the suggestion and think they should be making the requirements MORE not less. This is not exactly accurate "you have to have FREEFALL time, not replicator time." People said simulators were a bad idea for flight training and that has pretty much been shown to be false. But yes, the idea that you can replace jumping with tunnel is crap. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334