Ron

Then they are not real Marines. No where in the oath of enlistment does it say "make a bunch of money". If anyone joins for the money....they are clearly not thinking. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No one thing can serve two masters. I'm sorry that you don't understand how the USPA is more about the business of skydiving than protecting the jumpers... You want another example....How about the failure of the USP to make DZ's use the ISP? If it is so good and better for the studetns why did the USPA go from manditory to recomended? I could go on all day with examples of how the USPA ignores the jumper in favor of the DZO. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have done around 300 a year for the past 11 years. I have since "quit" and only do maybe 200 a year at 4way camps and a few Tandems. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

what you don't know if you got any? As for me No ones business:0:0....But I did do 5 hours of tunnel on Saturday working with the SOCOM guys. And some sweet 4way. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A Marines job is to do his job for honor, not pay. Besides the unit that does get him will do alright. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So they can be staged over the US, MX, and to rotate them so you never can be sure which one the Prez will be on at any given flight. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And there is the difference right there...I don't see a difference. A white or black person is just a person. You do. You think that skin color matters. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK if you want to play that game... How about me and my 11 years and 3400 jumps to your 250ish? I think Skyride is a parasite and they should not be allowed to continue the BS practices they do. You mean like claiming to have a DZ in every major city, and using other peoples buildings, aircraft and staff as their own? Ya mean those kinds of activities? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The AOPA got GA aircraft flying again, not the USPA. The first thingt he USPA did was call the AOPA. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

For one the inspection program. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Damn fine question. Best answer? Its both. You can only have 5 jumps and they might be with Airspeed, and you are still not going to do well in an 8way. You could have 8,000 solos and suck at RW. The BEST answer is to try and get as many good jumps as you can. How to do that? *Stay on smaller groups. You will fly more in a small group turning points than you will on a one point big way. (Yes, you will learn how to swoop on the big way, but you can always freefly launch a 4 way, you can't always do 10 points on a 12 way.) Smaller formations will teach you more. I have found 3 ways are really good for this. With a 2 way you never know who is moving when someone turns...With a 3 way if one guy is moving away...He is moving away. But you need jump numbers to get the experience and the skills. So try to jump as much as you want and try to make them quality jumps. *Take advantage of tunnel if you can...I have a camp coming up if you want you can PM me for details. If I had to choose between a guy with 1,000 jumps and one with 200...Saftey sense tells me that that the guy with 1,000 jumps has more experence and has done more. the guy with 200 may be a tunnel rat and a great flyer, but this is not the tunnel, this is skydiving. Tunnel makes a skydiver better, it does not make a skydiver. I had a teammate that was honestly one of the best flyers I have ever seen, he could fly circles around me....He died on a jump, He had a perfect reserve in the container, all he had to do was pull his reserve and he never did. His death killed me. A manager of the tunnel started AFF...He broke himself before he graduated. The tunnel is great..But it does not provide you all you need to be a skydiver. So you must jump. *Strive to do well and learn. *Accept feedback. Ask for it from people with more experience. *Buy beer...You ask what this has to do with anything? I see a trend today where people comeout make 5 jumps and go home. They do tunnel, they amke jumps, but the feel left out...Well thats cause they don't try to belong. You don't have to try to fit in, but you have to be known before people want to jump with you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry I meant by making the Jumpers be members and thus having insurance. I am sure they just called up and asked...Or filled in a form and sent it in. I know it is rated by size.....So what they paid is a good question. But since it is really not that expensive to be a GM (The 82nd team and the GB team were both members with NO Aircraft so it can easily happen BTW) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes it is. Most likley no. Very few do. No the place for the USPA is along the lines of NAUI, or PADI. They have programs to teach and certify people, they have basic rules for safe participation in the sport, they certify instructors and participate in some legal situations. You notice that if you are NAUI you can dive with a PADI shop? And the reverse is also true. The USPA shoud drop the GM program....But they will not...Know why? Because of the GM pledge that states that you will only allow USPA members to jump there...The USPA knows that if that goes away them DZ's will no longer make people be members. and then people would drop the USPA like a hot rock. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you have to attack him to disagree? What if I told you I feel the same way? The USPA cannot serve two masters both the Members (You and I) and the DZO's (Group Members). The USPA is supposed to be a member run organization, but many times they ignore the membership in favor of the DZO's. When the organization no longer does its job of representing the membership it is no longer a good idea. Chuck, think of the US relvolution. If you no longer feel that you are represented, and you have made efforts to be heard and they ignore you...Leaving might be the only answer. They will: 1. Wake the fuck up and realise that they are not doing what the members want and change. 2. Dissapear to be replaced by a new organization. BTW the AOPA does more by accident for skydiving than the USPA does. They have more members and MUCH more of a voice in DC. No offense, but he has every right to say that. Why are you attacking this guy? If you have a problem with his position please state why...I'd like to hear it. I *FOR A FACT* know of DZ's that allow non USPA members to jump...Both GM and non GM's. The only real benefit to beinga GM is the insurance....Which its value is often debated. Every DZ I know breaks rules. From Cloud clearence, repacks, and Aircraft MX. No DZ follows ALL the rules all the time. Still sounds like a workable idea. Why do you support the USPA so much? Have you ever delt with them before? There IS skydiving without the USPA. Sky Dive DeLand does not require membership for instance. There is no law that says you have to be a member of the USPA....NONE. Relate that to SCUBA diving. NAUI, PADI, SSI are ALL just like the USPA..Why is the USPA better than all of them...I would really like to know your thoughts on this. Having more than one organization would be good for the sport. However it is uunlikley since most don't care enough and the sport is so small that more than one organization most liklely would not do well. Thinking beyond ones self is also making hard choices and not staying on the easy path just cause its easy. Many people think the USPA has lost sight of its mission. It would be wrong to do nothing about it. A boycott is one way of checking them. 1. What do you think the USPA does that makes them a "Sacred cow" that can't be touched? 2. Have you delt with the USPA on any issue? 3. Do you belong to any other Organizations like the USPA? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't normally agree with you...But I do here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I didn't read it as he was trying to say he wrote it...For one thing we all know he is not smart enough to write like that. He did commit an error not saying that, or providing a link, "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I swear it was just laying right in the manifest office. They had a stack of old magazines...It kinda surprized me it was there and when I saw it I just grabbed it and told him it was me. It was an 98 issue (I think Oct, maybe Nov) and I was at Airborne school in April/May 99. It was areally good colorful shot taken by Tony H. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Many "perks" are considered part of a package. Use of a company car, jet, gym memberships, tickets to sporting events...Ect True, it could be a one time thing, or not. But even a one time payout is better than a sharp stick in the eye. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A USPA group member can pull up your membership status on line...Or used to be able to (It was 3 years ago that I had a password) As for your logbook...Are you going to be with people you know, and that know you? If so they should be able to vouch for you... Having said that here is my story: I was in Airborne school at Ft. Benning. I took the weekends off to go skydiving. I didn't bring my gear since I could not store it, and I didn't bother to bring any USPA material since that was seen as "Bad" to be a skydiver. So some guys from the Silver Wings loan me a Jump Suit, and an MP officer loans me a rig (1997 US team rig) and I show up at Thomaston. Well, they ask to see my USPA card. I don't have it, and at Zhills they could go on line and look for it, so I thought they could. They either didn't want to, or could not. They ask to see my Logbook...Well I didn't have it. Yeah, I know I was stupid, but I thought it would be easy. So I ask them to call Zhills and they will know me and will vouch for me...They will not do that either. I tell them I will unpack and repack the rig and do a coach jump....They are not good with that idea either. So now I'm kinda screwed. The manifester says she will ask the DZO what if anything can be done. He comes up and says that they can't let me jump since I can't prove it, and they can't let me jump until I can prove it. As I am really disappointed I look down and see a Parachutist Magazine. Not just any Parachutist mag..But one with a face shot of me on the cover in freefall. I pick it up and say "Well thats me on the cover". And the description about the cover had my full name listed as well. He looks at the cover, looks at me, looks back at the cover, back at me....Looks kinda startled, back at me, back at the cover, flips it open and reads the description....Shrugs and puts me on load 3 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You say that...but I don't buy it. BS. It depends on how you dress and how you carry yourself. I can walk into a store looking like a ragamuffin and I will be looked at with a sharp eye. A minority can walk into a store dressed like a professional and never draw a second look. I had a friend at nationals in Eloy. White guy with long hair and tatoos. He was driving a rental car near Mexico....He got pulled over...Why? He fit a profile. Notice he was white. Uh, depends again on what, how and where? Middle of the night, bad area of town...ANYONE in a nice car is looked at as a drug dealer. Middle of the day in a business complex no one would bat an eye. Maybe, but case in point, my Bosses boss and his boss, are black. A guy I have a resume in with is black. I don't look like them at all. (They are fat) Again...BS. My Sister had a baby out of wedlock...My first words to her were "Never hear of a Condom?" My Ex-Wife just had a kid and is not going to marry the guy....Amazingly stupid move. Again I don't agree...but then again you do live in TX "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then you say: Are you allowed in England to have a pistol in your home? Yes, or No? I see the increase in violent crime in England as evidence that there are other negative side affects. You will claim that the numbers are bad, but the numbers from the UN and other studies from England itself have shown the trend...you will of course ignore these and anything else that does not fit into your view. Read it again...That was in responce to this from you: My response was pefectly valid based on you stating "It is an obsession with some people on this web site to continually bash this law even though they do not live in the UK and don't understand what the whole thing was about" And I asked what makes you or anyone else from England able to know the US? Answer you want it your way, but will not take the same medicine. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your personal feelings do not count...no offense. I know PLENTY of people that have guns...And not one of them has ever killed anyone, much less gone postal as you like to say. The affect is simple; if a criminal knows that there is no chance of a guy having a gun he will be more agressive. The evidence in this case came for the UN and was in an English paper. The UN is not very friendly to the US, and the article was in an English paper, not the NRA magazine. #1. You never answered the question if the gun ban might have had other negative side affects. #2. This relates to this article since some think that by denying the law abiding citizens the ability to have a weapon that violent criminals have become more agressive. And the stats *from the UN* show that. Remember the UN is not in the NRA's pocket. Numbers in this study and in others have shown the same thing. I don't expect you to see that either since you think you are correct and refuse to look at any opinons other than your own. Just because you think it worked does not mean it did...And just becasue I think it did not does not mean it did not. But the biggie is that even if it did work in jolly ol' England, it does not mean it would work here, or anywhere else in the world....And that's if it did work. Plus you seem to refuse to look at the possibility that while it may have fixed one problem that it created another. You are right, we have nothing to discuss if you hold those views. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK but do you consider that it might have also had the affect of making violent crime rise since criminals now know that people are not armed? See it can do both. So you don't think that it might have caused other problems? Thats just not possible? What about how people from England who don't understand America seem to think the "Solution" they used will work here....do they have the right to make those statments, but we don't have the right to show where the gun ban might not be perfect? You mean like you just twisted that? The US does not have gun laws that allow anyone to "Go Postal". People will kill people if they want, you seem to think that your governments answer is the best for everyone...That is rarely the case. And you are not willing to look at the fact that your gun ban may have in fact increased violent crime rates in your country. According to the numbers you are more likely to be a victum of violent crime in England than the US. Your rate of murder may be less, but your rate of crime, and violence is higher. So maybe your gun ban had unintended side affects? And maybe while you might be willing accept them, that does not mean that everyone should? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but he can own one all day long. The better comparison was cars. You can own them without a license. You can legally drive them on your property (Some places however you can't own a gun even in your own home), Some people follow the rules and get a license to drive them on the street and meet all other reguirements (Insurance, tag ect). And others don't. Making a law that says you must have those things will only affect those that would anyway. Making a law that makes owning a car illegal will only hurt those that follow it. Those that don't will not suddenly start to obey the law. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Boo! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334