Ron

Ah yes.... another fine example of distractions almost killing someone. No need to check your chest strap, just make sure your gopro is turned on! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b90EzNNrQ2M "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You were fine with listening to your AFF instructors.... But now you are not fine with listening to more experienced people? This makes little sense to me. I wish there were more people more experienced than me around to give me advice. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sigh.... 1. An 84 with 1300 jumps. Unless you have an exit weight around 120# you are on an extreme wing at an extreme loading. Even if none of these accidents are your fault (and I am not going to get into that), when you strap on an 84 it is more a stunt than a regular jump.... Especially at your experience level. And I know, I had an FX 88 in 1996 and put some jumps on the 69. 2. You suspected that your canopy had a problem, even had a collapse and didn't send it back before the second accident. Things to learn from this: a. Experience counts. Even if all it does is tell us that the conditions are not right, or to quit jumping something that we think has an issue. b. When buying something super ridiculous high performance... Buy new or get a really good pre buy inspection. Sending it back to the factory is a really good idea. c. PD has amazing customer service. I hope you heal well.... I also hope you reconsider your canopy selection. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Throw in some strawberry pop tarts and you might have a chance... He is freaking addicted to them. He actually broke two records: Downwind at 2.8 times the wind speed Upwind at 2.1. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It was made by a buddy in CA. He is a jumper and paraglider. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

May I suggest you read this months parachutist page 70. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Eh, it is nothing a few thousand jumps will not cure. On a more serious note.... Duh. You are getting ready to throw yourself out of an airplane in flight. If you didn't have a bit of nerves, then you have a mental problem. And if someone tries to tell you they didn't have any nerves, then they are: a. Lying. b. Have a mental issue. That is not to say it is not completely controllable. Nervousness is normal, healthy...etc. FEAR is unnecessary and controllable. Best you can do is make sure you are prepared, stay current, and make sure you stay well within your comfort zone. You can do anything GIVEN TIME and EXPERIENCE. Don't bite off more than you can chew and you should be fine. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Best post in this thread..... When Wendy lays the smack down on you... You pretty much went WAY too far. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What is not logical is you ignoring the data presented. And there it is for all to see. The data is provided and you ignore it because you don't WANT it. You only want data that supports your closed minded opinion. You state that a few jumpers loose track of altitude trying to get the shot.... Then claim there is not data being presented. Besides you have already proven that you will discount any accident that does not fit your impossibly small criteria. If a person hooks in trying to film their shadow... You claim that is a canopy issue (and it is partly), and ignore the camera issue (they would not be trying to film their shadow without a camera). If a person falls till impact while trying to get a cool video shot... You claim it is loss of altitude awareness (and again, it is partly), but you ignore WHY they lost altitude awareness. The logic in your argument went out the door the second you ignored all the data that was provided. Once again, I have over 6k jumps and have been skydiving 40 years. I'll gladly back that claim up. Now, your turn... How old are you and how many jumps do you have to show how you claim 'expert' knowledge? BTW.... Trolling is also saying the same tired thing over and over when you have been proven to be incorrect... That is exactly what you are doing here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you can *really* ignore it... Then all you have is the snag hazard. But history has shown that just does not happen. At some point the person tries to 'fly the camera'. Now 'all you have is the snag hazard'.... Uh, that is a massive issue. It is about layers. First, lets not forget that once we leave an aircraft that we have started a chain of events that WILL end in your death unless you and your equipment work correctly and in time. Anything added to that lowers your chances of success. Simple question.... You have a guy with 100 jumps or a guy with 10,000. Which of the two do you think is better prepared for their first camera jump? It's not rocket science..... New people that are still learning the basics and need to have the basics down before they try to add complexity. And EVERY person likes to think they are above average... And that is impossible. And EVERY person that died in this sport didn't think they would. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It's not about 'getting ballsy' that is but a very small part of it. It is about that and about the distraction to the jumper and the choices made by the inexperienced jumper. Statistically new drivers are more likely than experiences drivers to have an accident when they have passengers, when they are listening to music, when they are texting, even with a few drinks. The SAME applies to skydiving. A new participant is MUCH more likely to cause an accident when they try to add distractions. This is just fact. I understand the cock sure attitude of new jumpers... What I don't get is why they don't listen to people with 60x their experience. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is an entire thread devoted to showing you the stats.... You don't care and ignore them. You keep ignoring incidents that exist, then you nit pick trying to discount them. It is pretty simple, when a person jumping a camera gets distracted and fails to pull and gets a cypres fire, or they hook in because they tried to film their shadow.... Those are directly related to the camera. But you try to ignore them saying they are not. Further, you have loads of experienced jumpers telling you that it is a bad idea. I have even mentioned how my first camera jump almost killed me. Frankly, you have all the data needed, you just CHOOSE to continue to ignore it. You have an idea in your head and no amount of data will change that. THIS is why you are dangerous. You think you know more than everyone else, you willingly ignore any data presented. I personally think you are a troll. Further, I'd love to see where you get your "expert" opinion from. If I had to hazard a guess, you have ~100 jumps and are in your early 20's Prove me wrong. I'll gladly show you my credentials to show how I came to my conclusion. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There was not consensus for belly and FF for a really long time and even after most people were doing it the current way some DZ's still did it other ways. Simply put, there is no reason a tracking dive should go out first. They are not going to track downwind because of the spot, they can track across the line of flight at any point in the order, and if they screw up and track up the line of flight they are best served by being under the high pullers of AFF and tandem than under large formations. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep, the DZ has one if those Garret powered 900+HP super caravans. I have not jumped this one, but the ones in Spaceland Houston are awesome! I may actually jump instead of fly next weekend! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And 'in general' young in age, or young in experience people cry about not being taken seriously. 'Kids' can refer to young in age, or young in experience. You are getting wrapped around the axle for no reason. One day I was planning a stunt. I was going to do a Mr Bill then climb on top of my buddies shoulders and while facing forward like a two stack with only one parachute, I was planning on pitching my main and ending up in an instant two stack. One of the old guys I went to for adult supervision said it was a famously stupid idea. To this day, I call me asking someone with more experience advice 'adult supervision' and I am 40. When I was in the military and giving a block of instruction I would tell the troops "Gather round kids, uncle Ron is gonna talk to you about....." They didn't cry about it. When I am coaching or organizing I often tell the group in my best Chef from South Park voice, "Good morning children". They don't get butt hurt about it either. You have a personal issue with being considered a kid.... That makes me think you are either: a. Young b. Inexperienced c. a & b But please, prove me wrong and tell us your age and number of jumps. Then your ego will not allow you to get some really good advice. I know plenty of shit hot skydivers that are arrogant.... It does not mean their advice is anything but gold. Sure it does not taste as good as the honey coated type..... But the advice is still good for you. And BTW.... When you post on here, you HAVE solicited a response. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Depends really.... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/20/elliott-delaney-funeral-dress-promise That's not a jumpsuit. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Respect is earned, not given. Courtesy is given, but when it is stepped on - do not expect it to be given long. No, what you sense is disdain for people that act like they know everything and that insult those with more experience. Pure unadulterated bullshit. What is going on here is those of us with experience know things that those without that experience don't.... And that people without the experience don't seem to care. You think I and others have nothing better to do than try to 'keep you down'???? You think I have spent 15 years as an instructor teaching others, coaching others, encouraging others, and yes on occasion being blunt with hard heads because I secretly want to prevent them from being better than me? You have zero clue about me or my motivations. The funny thing is you are crying that others are making assumptions about you, but that is ALL you are doing. Seriously, you think I have spent half my life skydiving and helping others AFFI, Tandem I, SLI, and I am currently sitting at an airport to go coach a 4way team this weekend... And really just want to keep you down? Or, maybe I have been around the block a bit and once was as stupid and cock sure as you. I survived my stupid mistakes while watching others die from the same errors. Maybe, just MAYBE I care more about you 'kids' than you do. I almost died on my first camera jump.... Because I flat out screwed up and didn't consider it a big deal. I hooked in one of the first HP canopies in the US. So when I speak I the dangers.... I not only know people who died, *I* made the mistakes. You want to stop being treated like a kid.... Quit acting like one. And for the record, I am 40 and been skydiving since I was 20. When I was 20 I acted very much like you.... One major exception... When people with experience gave me advice, I didn't insult them - I listened. And it might have been what has made it so I could jump for 20 years and make 6k jumps with National medals, world records, jumped 69sqft canopies and a bunch of other cool things. I have seen plenty of hard heads that though they knew more than anyone else die. Here is a little hint and a bit of advice: You are not as smart and experienced as EVERYONE. If ONE person tells you something that you don't like/don't agree with.... Eh, they might be an asshole. If TWO people tell you... You might want to listen. If three or more tell you that you are wrong.... Odds are you are wrong. You are now free to claim I am just an old fart that wants nothing more than to keep you down. Edit to add: You know what the 'old guys' called me, in person - to my face, when I was starting? 'Young Punk'. I didn't get butt hurt about it.... By listening to them, I most likely am alive today and am now called 'old'. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

We may not know your biological age... But we do know the age level that you express yourself. No we don't know exactly since you will not be honest.... But again, we do know from the types of questions you are asking how experienced you are. If you like, I will gladly provide proof of my experience.... Will you then do the same? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not really all that new for PD. When I bought my first Stiletto I had to fill out two waivers (size and type) and had to pass an interview from PD.... Yes, they actually called me. And I hooked the fucker in on the 4th jump... But that's another story. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bravo. Not all the answers you were giving in the FJC are the best solutions. They are the best solutions for that time in your career. You are just never going to get enough data to get a solid sample size. 1. The occurrence is just not often enough to get great data. 2. The data is unreported more than it is reported. The only thing you could do is read the incident reports over the years and see how many died doing "X" and how many died doing "Y". But without the rate of "X" and "Y" you really have no solid data. I'd love to see the data. I just don't think we are going to get any great data. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

When it comes to life saving equipment.... I am not an early adopter. For example the Raven Dash-M reserve issue of canopies made before 1999. It was not until 2001 that a problem was identified and an SB released. I wait 3 years on an AAD, or reserve to be on the market before I buy one. After 3 years, and issues should have been discovered. Things that are used on EVERY jump, like mains, I'll look at in a year.... Anyone remember the Nova? And iirc the original Safire? At any rate not all new skydiving toys are advancements.... And even when they are, they often take a year or so to change thinking so that they are safe... Such as when the CYPRES came out and people were having a bunch of two outs since they were still pulling at 2 with Stiletto's "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nothing you have posted here is a "sensible" response. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

803.00 to get fixed... I told them to go ahead. Hopefully in a few weeks I will have a 'new' 130 year old watch "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Some info I have gotten: It is currently at one shop getting an estimate. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You think all of the dead skydivers that rode line stretch in thought they were low, or do you think they thought had enough time? You keep mentioning counting, but you are forgetting that time distortion happens when all hell breaks loose. Without a real instrument to measure time.... It is unreliable. It is like the pilot who thinks he can fly striaight and level in clouds by 'feel', or the Acro pilot that claims to be able to fly G's without a G-meter. In good situations, using time without a watch is questionable. When all hell breaks loose it becomes even less reliable. As for first jump static line students... Yes, they are taught that. They are also taught to hang from a strut and arch... That does not make it a best practice, they quickly move on to better methods. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334