Ron

Still waiting on you to provide the data to back up your claim. Which US DZ's allow them at 50 jumps? Put up the data, or admit you made it up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Be honest. I told my parents when I had 13 jumps and had bought my first rig. They didn't really like it. But I had moved out and there was not a lot they could do about it. Fast fwd 15 years and my sister and my brother just bought motorcycles. My Mom calls and sounds exasperated, "You are the only sane child I have!"....... I waited about 5 seconds and replied, "Mom, you do remember that I skydive, right?" Her reply was that I was still the only same one. Now, I have a buddy that both he and his brother jump. They both have close to 4K jumps. Both have won medals at the Nationals. They have to sanitize their houses when the parents come visit. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Truffer was a really great guy. He was open, friendly, honest, smart as hell, and just the right amount of smart-ass. Here is a picture of him jumping with my first real 4way team in 1998. It should be pretty easy to find the one guy that loved to jump but didn't really want to do 4way seriously. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you really think this is going to help... You are less experienced than we thought earlier. Camera can be a great tool.... But not when the subject wears it. Between this and the "buying skydives" comment.... I think this guy is not even off student status yet. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ah, so now you are an expert on gear as well? People have fallen out of their gear due to not having the chest strap in place. I guess gear manufactures are just wasting time putting them on gear then? BTW, still waiting for you to provide your data: "How many US DZ's allow a GoPro at 50 jumps vs how many make you wait till 100 or 200?" You claim to like data.... But you have not brought any. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Almost killed the DeLand jumper.... Thank god he got good video! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

IIRC, they had some issues with larger than 120 Xbraced canopies opening hard. It was one of the big issues Xbraced canopies had when they first came out in ZP. I had an 88 and it would whack the shit out of me 3/10 times and the other 7 were brisk. PD had the same issue with the Excaliber which was the first Xbraced canopy made of F111. When they tried to make them out of ZP, they about killed people on opening. PD spent a bunch of time trying to get the openings right...Making a new size is not as simple as just putting the plan on a photocopier and making it bigger. And frankly the Velo in larger sizes does not have the market to justify the expense at all the R&D. Then add in cost. A Xbraced canopy has almost twice the fabric of a conventional canopy. It just costs more to make. So when you add in: 1. Difficult to get to open nicely in large sizes 2. Lack of demand 3. Cost It is not too difficult to understand why they didn't spend mush time on the idea. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Caught that did ya?????? And a point that I hope is not missed by most people. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The same exact thing we say about you. Still waiting for you to provide your data "Provide your data to back that up. How many US DZ's allow a GoPro at 50 jumps vs how many make you wait till 100 or 200? " Put up, or shut up. Anyone else read his comment on 'buying skydiving'?!?!!?? I am starting to think this guy is not even off student status. Has anyone ever heard a skydiver say a phrase like that? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Good grief..... If you really think that way their will never be a point in trying to discuss anything with you. There might be some.... Just because they exist it does not mean they were not a distraction and hindered learning. And it is TAUGHT... Not just thrown at them one day. Your argument gets worse and worse. Make the jumper go through a class and PROVE they can handle it and maybe they will be better prepared. Which is EXACTLY what I said. You are arguing against yourself now. See, my point was that the student had specific instruction and was signed off for new tasks.... You are making your own argument weaker..... Quit while you are behind. You have lost your argument. We are pointing out why it is a bad example by showing PROOF of why it is a bad example. Sheesh, I am done. Your argument has actually destroyed your own argument more than anyone else ever could. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Neither is putting on a chest strap.... Yet that seems to have been forgotten recently in DeLand. Not even close. What I am saying is not to allow advanced maneuvers/tasks before competency has been shown in the basics. But you do know that in early flight instruction the INSTRUCTOR handles the airplane or the radio till he thinks the student can do both? So even YOUR example hurts your case. You also do not seem to know that flight into a controlled airport is not allowed for solo till it has been signed off by an instructor as part of the solo sign off. And for a light sport license you need an additional sign off to fly into controlled airports.... so again... Your own argument hurts your position. No one has displayed an "anti-camera" argument. There is some valid concerns about someone having shown the experience necessary to not die on a basic jump before being allowed to add distractions. Again, look at the video of the guy messing with his chest strap till AAD fire. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well then you clearly have not paid attention to anything that has been said/typed/talked about. When teaching an advanced skill set it is advisable to have the basic skill set at a certain level. I didn't learn to loop my plane till I had learned how to fly straight and level, take off, land, turns about a point, s turns, steep turns...etc. The same concept applies to jumping a camera. You need to be competent in the basics of skydiving before you add distractions. The recent video of the guy messing with his chest strap till CYPRES fire is a perfect example of not having the basics down. And yes, I have made plenty of mistakes... Which is why I know about the topic I am talking about. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So.... you think we should just let people sign a waiver and then jump out of a plane for the first time with whatever gear they brought and without instruction of any kind? Or do you think that people who don't know what they don't know should be guided and... I don't know, taught how to do things? Your diatribe would be valid if you espoused the "sign a waiver and just let them go process".... But I really doubt you honestly think that is a good idea. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What are fat people not allowed nice toys? Yes, you are assuming that all HP canopy pilots want super high WL's. The largest Stiletto I have jumped was a 135. It gave me a WL of about 1.2. A Stiletto at a 1.2 is still a really fun canopy with super fast turns and a great flare (1.4 is about the best WL IMO). But I weighed about 150 pounds back then. Why should a guy that weighs 200 pounds not be allowed the same WL and performance? A 200 pound jumper would need a 170 to get a 1.2 WL. Not everyone wants a high WL just to fly a type of canopy. WL is just going to give you SPEED. The plane-form of the canopy is what gives the canopy performance. WL = Speed Design = Performance Once you understand that, your question is answered. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, your AFF I's are the best source. If you were MY student and the suit was appropriate for you while in AFF - I would let you wear it. If it was not, then you would not (at least you would not have me as your AFFI). Rolling them up and tapping them will work. IF your AFFI's allow it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Provide your data to back that up. How many US DZ's allow a GoPro at 50 jumps vs how many make you wait till 100 or 200? You keep saying the data given to you is garbage.... So please provide the data to back up your claim. I think you know of one or two DZ's that have a 50 jump rule and just assumed others do as well. Please provide your data. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

In my case I did give myself a gear check.... It was just a terrible one. I had 30 jumps and just flat out screwed up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He is talking about the fatality in NC where a jumper got on a plane and filmed a tandem without wearing a rig. At pull time the video person tried to pull and then realized he had no rig on.... I talked to the TM. He said he realized that the video person didn't have a rig on, but there was nothing he could of done and if the video person knew he didn't have a rig he might of tried to attach himself to the tandem pair (it is what I would of done)... Risking all three lives. This is not the only case of someone forgetting to put on their gear. I know a cameraman personally that walked to the plane carrying only his camera helmet and it was not until someone asked where his rig was that he realized he didn't have it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I talked to Booth about this back in 2002. He told me that there were two forces to consider (I can't recall the names he used). One was force applied outward against the entire width of the webbing, the other was like a tearing force. The tearing force was remarkably low IIRC, the other was higher. Due to the slim chance of tearing forces.... He would not make small chest straps. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Met him.... Not impressed "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have heard stories about people being dumped out, but I have also heard stories where they survived and personally seen a guy land with his chest strap not done. The point being that the best 'fix' is to make damn sure it is correctly routed. And if you find yourself in freefall and it is not correctly routed - Don't spend the rest of your life trying to route it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Panic. He most likely thought he would fall to his death if it was not fastened. It never occurred to him that he could have been so stupid as to not fasten it, so he never considered what he would do if it was not done. His brain automatically made the jump that it HAS to be done and he almost died trying to attach it. I don't see it as a 'small' emergency. People have fallen to their deaths because they have forgotten to attach the chest strap. What can be done? 1. Focus on proper gear self checks. 2. Remove all un-needed distractions till a person has the basics down (No camera's, no wing suits...etc). 3. Show them this video. It shows we all can be that stupid and that while he was dead if not for the AAD, he still didn't fall out of the harness. This could be a great training tool.... Show that distractions kill and that it is very easy for your brain to focus on one smaller problem while a large planet hits you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, and they screwed up here big time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would think that locking them across would be better than up. When you think about the forces being applied, the rig is going to try and slip off of your shoulders from the front to the back. It would be better, IMO, to have the shoulders rolled forward and lock your arms across your chest like the chest strap would do. BTW, I know of jumpers (not including this guy) that survived without a chest strap. In one case they didn't know till after they opened and we had video of his chest strap floating in freefall. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I had 30ish jumps and miss-routed my chest strap. I had it around, but not back under the locking bar. Luckily a guy grabbed my chest strap on climb out and it came undone and he pulled me back in. Embarrassed and got my first lesson that I don't know what I don't know. Now... What would I do now if I found myself in this situation? I would grab my right MLW with my left hand, toss out my main and reach across to my left MLW trying to grab it. This guy.... Without an AAD would be dead. This is a great lesson.... DO NOT TRY IN AIR RIGGING. Mistake: 1. Clearly no decent self gear checks. 2. He flipped over thinking it would help route it.... Well, he also lost sight of the ground and almost went in on his back. 3. Single minded focus. He was so concerned about his first mistake that he almost died trying to fix it. Even after he was saved my his AAD and under canopy he STILL tried to fix his chest strap. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334