Ron

Fact is every organization has said this is a bad idea...From USPA to Strong...Vector has been saying this for years. I know the TI...He is quite skilled. It is not his skills in question, but his judgement. A tandem is for the student, not the TI. And we owe it to the student to have as safe a jump as possible for them, not to showboat our personal skills. Any showboating should be from the student since they are the reason we are there. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

US nationals 98 they had live air to ground video. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No where near the same thing as a normal ski run. But hey take your grief to the Olympics commission. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A real legend....Gone Best know for the song "Gonna Fly now" (Rocky Theme song). But he had a really great version of Admiral's Horn and even covered Sesame Street on his record "Storm". I saw him live once at BB' Kings place in Memphis...Amazing http://musicstore.connect.com/album/856/Maynard-Ferguson/This-Is-Jazz-16/500000000000002331559.html "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thanks... Actually Dallas now. Took some eariler advice from you, and bought a house (new) that I can easily afford (Easy to do in TX). Got a fixed rate, and do not plan on leaving for a few years. So thanks for the advice. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK...Since you know way more than I do. How about if I bought a few mths ago? Will prices drop so much that I will be under my house? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But they do not NEED them. You can walk to the top of a ski run, you can't jog to 12500 for a jump. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That would not be skydving But blade running would be an option. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

#1. Do a search...Been talked to death. I'll give you the cliff notes. Skydivers think that skydiving is the best thing ever, and that it smokes all other sports/activities. Non-skydivers think skydiving is stupid, or just a cool stunt. There are a lot more non jumpers than jumpers...so as a sport, skydiving appeals to only a very few. Even some skydivers do not understand some skydiving competitions, the average wuffo has no chance. Skydiving will never be a "popular sport" since: 1. It has no easy access for kids. They can't buy a rig and ride it down the street like with a BMX bike or skateboard...Which is why skysurf was dropped by the "X" games. 2. Skydiving is dangerous...Even if you want to debate that, the average person thinks it is very dangerous, so most people just frankly do not care about it other than a stunt. 3. People cannot relate to it. NASCAR, you can imagine driving one since most people drive. WWE most men have fought, even just for play so they can understand it...Same with boxing. Soccer, football, baseball, basketball...All very easy for kids to do, and most of us have played them. So we can relate to the skills the pros show. People have no clue about skydiving, so they cannot relate. Try this...Throw a party full of whuffos. Put on the Nationals tape or world meet tape. Most will watch a few mins and then drift away. They do not get it. This is very hard for skydivers to understand...They do not get it, and they do not care to get it. As for the Olympics...Well curling is in the olympics...So you could argue that none of that matters... But the nail in the coffin thus far has been that skydiving requires a motor. We need a plane to get to altitude and no other sport in the olymics I can think of NEEDS a motor. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you think the same way about "black power"? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What about removing the DZ from the group member program? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I see a guy that did some stupid shit. OK, maybe he didn't realize how stupid he was. Pretty easy to understand since his DZO and two S&TA's have not tried to stop him. If a kid acts bad....I tend to blame the parents. However, that is never an excuse to let the kid do whatever they want. If you point out that they are behaving poorly and they start to behave...What good is it to punish them for things they might not have known were wrong? Remember, *TWO* USPA S&TA's did nothing to stop him. And the DZO promoted his antics. Thats why I asked how he responded to being corrected....Which no one seems to think is important. Am I the only one that thinks that a guy could get wrapped up and do stupid things and without "adult" supervision they could get out of hand? I think he was doing some really stupid stuff...But it was ENCOURAGED by the S&TA's and the DZO. So now that he knows it was really stupid and his S&TA's were acting stupid....Does he realize he was stupid? Or does he think we are all screwed up and he was fine? That makes a big difference in my mind on how much he gets punished..... Edit: Yes, if the student died I might be out for blood...Ya know the old Ron you seem to miss But if they guy admits he was being stupid, and changes...Well I do not see much point in crushing him. If he still thinks it is cool now that he has been told better....Crush him. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It helps to be an Instructor...I have to think like a student all the time. You have a point that different is better, I just do not agree that that is going to make the biggest difference. Seems to me like you are trying to fix that...so thats good. For the record.....I don't think people should get one without some serious thought and maybe a Mal where they have performed under the stress of the situation. I think most benefits to the soft handle can be gained by a low profile metal handle....With all the benefits of a metal handle. I only have the soft handle since Derick T. asked me to try it.....I am still torn on if I like it to be honest and have decided to keep it till I have a mal. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Never said "off the hook". I said, "don't crush him". You seem to want his head on a pike in your front yard. And we tell students not to turn low and they do, we tell people not to downsize fast and they do, people have CYPRES fires for no reason, people have been told time and time again that when doing a hop n pop the tail on some planes may be low...But people make mistakes. If he can admit he screwed up, he may be worth not cutting his head off. And that is part of it....His S&TA's didn't stop it. So maybe he thought it was OK. Also note Strong is not doing anything....THAT amazes me. I am not saying let him off the hook....I asked how he responded to being caught doing this. For me, if he admits his mistake he should not be crushed. If he thinks he didn't screw up...Then crush away. But I think attitude plays a LARGE part. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your opinion. I know plenty of folks that think that color does matter. Since you are trained to "look/grab", not "feel/grab". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But, what if he didn't think it was wrong? That IMO makes a big difference between losing a rating and getting some other form of reprimand. And now that he knows it was wrong, takes steps to improve? Look, I don't think he was right to do this, but if he didn't think it was "death on a stick" and when told to stop he does, then why crush him? So if he screwed up, admits he screwed up, promises not to do it again, crush him anyway? So you tried to punish a guy for a crime he did not commit? And even when you admit you don't even think he would do it with a tandem?!?! I do things in my solo rig that I would NEVER even think about with a Tandem...So I should not be allowed to do Tandems either? Strong is not taking any action. They set the standards for the industry in regards to that rig. So even if he realized he was stupid, admitted it, apologized, never did it again...Ect you still want his head on a platter? I would only want his head on a platter if he refused to see the error in his ways. This is kinda funny, I am the guy that normally is too extreme. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, it was a great question. I hope you didn't take my answer the wrong way. I would ask you try it with your rig at the next repack. Tests like this will teach you loads. It *can* be done and to be honest the chances of needing to do it are slim. But, why risk it? Do the test and make a better informed choice. If you have any questions, you can always PM me if you don't want to ask "out loud". But of course take any advice *including mine* and run it past an instructor you like. It also helps if the instructor likes you, and is not hitting on your GF "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not yet But can't a guy just be happy that some folks who normally smell better than the norm, and defiantly look better, are standing on the podium? But since you brough it up........... Never mind "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't know since I do not know how he has reacted. People push the envelope all the time and do things others consider foolish while the person doing it does not see the big deal. Knowing how he reacted is a big factor in the amount of punishment IMO. But, I have a hard time thinking that he *knew* it was dangerous and did it anyway. Did he admit that it might be wrong and promise to stop? Or did he get pissed since he knows better than everyone else? If he admitted he was wrong and fixes it...Well I don't see why he should be severly punished. (And lets remember that Strong is doing nothing to him). But if he does not admit he was doing anything wrong....I would yank his USPA ratings if I had the power. Again, totally depends on how he reacted. Do I think it was a good idea? or Cool? No way. But do I think he can change and stop doing it???? I don't know, since I don't know how he reacted to being told it was wrong. I am actually happy that the USPA is doing something about it. I am really unhappy that Strong is doing nothing. But the level of punishment, I am unsure of. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Question....How has the jumper responded about this? Has he admitted he screwed up and is he willing to fly right? Or is he pissed and thinks he was doing nothing wrong. IMO that makes a big difference in the level of punishment. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Simple...you will not die if you do not cutaway, you might die with a double out/entanglement, but that is not a fact. You *will* die if you cutaway and cannot deploy the reserve. Also, every mal I have had I was under something...So I had some time. Once free of the mal, I quickly went back to freefall speed and the amount of time I had till impact was reduced. Now imagine a total mal. You are screaming earthward at 120 mph with nothing out. Which handle do you want? The really easy to find/grip/pull? Or the one that is even a little harder? Good point, put your rig on. Try to grab a soft handle with the opposite hand and see if you think you could pull it. Now do the same with a metal "D" ring. Now imagine a situation where your arm is hurt, say after a collision....Which handle do you think would be easier to pull with a hurt arm, or the other arm? Same thing with pud vs pullout...ect. The question you need to ask people when they give an opinion is have they had a mal yet? If not, then I tend to discount their opinion on what is best. But put your rig on for the next repack, or go visit your local rigger and ask to deploy his next rig due for a pack job. Put the rig on and see if you can deloy the reserve with the opposite hand. Now imagine a chaotic event where your life depends on your ability to deploy....Which sounds better? Great question. 1. You will die unless you get a reserve out...People have survived not cutting away. 2. If you have a mal where you need to cutaway, you may not be at terminal, and therfore have some time to fiddle if you have to....After the chop you will be back in freefall with no time to watse. Also a total mal you need to stop the jump with little time to fuss with a handle. 3. As Bill Booth explained, the tension on the Reserve PC will hold the pin in place, where a floating cutaway handle will most likely get pulled out. I have seen both and the reserve handle just stayed flapping around while the cutaway extracted. Hope that helps....Really, try to pull the reserve with the opposite hand. That will settle a bunch of things for you. BTW there has been one death I know off due to a premature reserve deployment...FF guy getting yanked out while head down. A low profile metal handle might have prevented that, a pillow most likely would. But compare that to the number of people who never got a reserve out and hit the ground. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Most likely you would have done it with any combination of types of handles. If you could not remember, "Right then Left" You most likely would not have remembered which handle was soft and which was hard. Thats taking a simple Right then Left and ADDING the sense of touch to the equation to make a choice. As for me, I have 6? cutaways. All have been with a metal handle. On my new rig, Derick gave me soft handles. I honestly don't know if I like them. I am waiting to make that call after I use them the first time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No flames....Bravo "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Here is what I think rolled up into one last post here: 1. AAD's are good. You have a better chance of living to do another jump if you have one. 2. Don't let having an AAD let you make dumb choices, just cause you have one. I use the sentance, "Don't do a jump with an AAD that you would not do without one" as a guide. Having an AAD will decrease your chances of DYING, but will not reduce, and can infact INCREASE, your chances of needing an AAD if you use it to do more dangerous things. Reference Booths law #2 ""The safer skydiving gear becomes, the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant." The smartest type of jumper will train like he has never heard of an AAD, only do jumps that he would be comfertable doing without one, and then puts one on anyway. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Simple, knowing why they are dependent they can take steps to reduce it, or focus on WHY they are dependent, not just buy an AAD and ignore the underlying issues. Nice...Can't talk like an adult? I depend on an AAD to do Tandems. I do not depend an an AAD to jump. Not allowing a device to let you do dumber things is the reason. Using your head to make smart choices and not letting a device overide common sense is smart. Just buying a device and letting it increase your risk just cause you have one is not. The diference is CHOOSING vs NEEDING. I choose to use one when I can...Others will not even think about jumping without one. If you can not see the very clear difference....Well that would explain your attacks and attitude. BTW if you can't respond without the attacks...Don't bother. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334