Ron

But people with 98% of bonfire posts ARE real skydivers or contributing to the sport? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The same could be said of this forum don't ya think? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Great question. She was very skittish even before the jump. I asked her several times if she wanted to do this, and she said yes, but you know the type. After the canopy opened and I did a bunch of gear checks, and self checks to make sure that the early canopy was the only thing that was going to happen, I made several adjustments to the harness for her. Her legs went a little numb, but not bad. Also her stomache was upset and we could do nothing but straight flight. So any turns I had to do I had to make them really slow and distract her with conversation. I did not want to worry her and risk a panic attack, so I told her that we opened a bit higher than normal, but that everything was fine. Once on the ground I told her the whole story. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Got a new one. This one is about how easy it is to screw up and how complacency can get you. OK, Tandem jump (Strong). A lady brings her best friend to do a tandem, I get the best friend. I move towards the door and as soon as I get out, I toss the drouge....Bamm! I have the main out. WTF?!?!?!? The drouge acted like a pilot chute and there I am with my tandem passenger at 12K. As the main opens, I automaticly reached for handles ,but didn't pull any since nothing was wrong....Well nothing other than sitting under canopy at 12k. I check the canopy, then start to wonder what the heck happend. I look and both my handles are in place. It seems that during my preflight I missed the double loop being misrouted. It did not go through the small ring of the three ring. For those that understand, you know what I am talking about. TI's that jump Strong that don't get it, please ask you local friendly rigger. Those that don't understand, just understand that *I screwed up*. I didn't pack it, but I didn't catch it in my preflight. I could give a reason why I screwed up, I got distracted by a question from the Passengers family. But the real truth is "I just screwed up." My fault, no one else's. Nobody got hurt, but a lesson all the same. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope...I fiqured why bother, if I jump a Chinese one, I will just want to jump again in an hour. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maneuver Complete! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

YOU brought it up! Now that you are called on it you cry about it?!?!?!?! Admit you put your foot in your mouth and move on. 1. You came and made a complaint....BB answered it. They are not Perris CA, they are in Eloy, AZ. and they have different rules they must follow. 2. You came up with a really stupid requirement that you had to have more jumps than posts to comment.....Sheesh, then you bitch when people called you on it. YOU failed to plan, not SDA. You think they would not get more rooms if they could fill them? You think they like the idea of people not spending extra money just to have them "hang around"? You think they became one of the largest DZ's by having that bad of a business plan? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Agreed, but he LETS them control him. They are not controlling him. They are not cutting his funding, kicking him out of the house or out of the will. They are unhappy, and he is doing what they want. A big difference IMO. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The spot is good according to whom? The pilot who has an engine and will land back at the airport, or the guy that is going to be jumping out? *I* make the choice to jump or not, not the pilot. If he refuses to give me even a 180 for a new jump run and wants to land with me....fine. I'll pack up and find a new DZ. If my safety is not worth another pass at that DZ, I will find a DZ where it is. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So you would be OK with a son that wanted to smoke? Or a father that wanted to drink and drive? Being a persons family means caring for them even if it is opposed to their wants. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, radar can "see" skydivers. The return is small and most would ignore it, and a solo might not be noticed, but I don't know for sure. However, folks I know that work for the FAA have told me that largish formations (12-16 ways) are pretty easy to see. They could also just walk across like they do now. The plane would attract attention. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not needed. Not a thing. However, the way I see it the day I quit jumping, I am no longer be a "skydiver" either. It would be something *I did*, not something *I am*. People who want to label themselves as anything are fine to do so...But that does not mean *I* have to agree. Kelp: And we often call Tandem jumpers "Cargo." I don't tend to call myself a "skydiver"....Skydiving is something I do, not something I am. But, I would not belittle all those that took the class and did a jump by themselves by calling anyone that was just cargo for one jump years ago, and call them the same. The difference IMO is if you are going to do it again...If not, then it was just something you did. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You really want me to answer that? Miss ya too. I head about the kid...Been meaning to call. And congradulate you. I already feel sorry for the kid "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The fruit loop I am talking about happend at close to SIX grand, and the guy had close to 1,000 jumps, used to high stress situations, (Army infantry and a Police Officer), and was better in freefall than most people I know. What altitude does it matter if the cutaway handle gets pulled? It AMAZES me that people can defend taking someone with very little experience and pulling a damned stunt that they know nothing about and think that it is a good idea. What the hell ever happened to, "plan the dive, dive the plan?" Now I am done. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope. an RSL might have saved him, and AAD might have saved him...But the first error was doing an unplanned trick, followed by not recognizing the problem and taking the correct action in time. I have always felt we should stop the problems at the first possible step we can. We sat down and thought it out. He normally jumped a Sabre 1 107 and pulled right at 2 grand. From 2 grand you have ~12 seconds till impact, about 9.5 to do something. After the pull the main was already cutaway. I have been told by some folks that if your main is cutaway and you deploy it that you may not even know that it went. So you figure that realizing that nothing happened takes say 2-3 seconds? Reach back to make sure you really did throw it...Say another 2-3 seconds? Reach for the cutaway and find it gone...The shock of it not being there must have been pretty large, say 3-4 seconds. Then reach for a soft handle that he had never pulled before in freefall. So best case maybe 7 seconds before he went for the reserve....to 10 seconds. From 2 grand at terminal 7 seconds is 1232 feet, 10 seconds is 1760 feet. So I can see how it happened. He was seen rolling to his side before impact, putting his arms up over his face. I have fruit looped folks, and been fruit looped. Earlier that year three of us got sucked down pretty low and I asked that they stop including me. Maybe I am taking this personally. He was a great friend and my piece partner. He frankly could skydive circles around me in freefall. After his death our other team mate finished the season and then quit jumping. And even though I had known others that had died jumping before this, I never have looked at skydiving the same way since. I have a hard time thinking that this is a good idea...especially when we are talking about low time jumpers not knowing they are going to get tossed. And that is the last I am going to say here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you consider someone who made one SCUBA dive with little to no training, say a resort dive, as a SCUBA diver? Or a guy that took one flight lesson as a Pilot? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You could be thinking of the woman who fell out....May 27th in Ohio "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It shows you can do it...And you have to have five jumps within the previous 60 days using the same model and size canopy to be used on the demonstration jump. Not perfect, but better than it was: "Hey Ron, wanna do a demo tomorrow? I have a canopy you can jump!" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bravo.... Those of us that did stupid things and lived, would like the rest to learn from our stupidity before it might kill them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

YES!!!!!! 2/12/2002 My 4 way teammate was at a boogie at San Isidro, Dominican Republic. He "fruit looped" a guy and the guy by accident pulled my friends cutaway handle. My buddy tracked off never knowing his main was cutaway. He tossed the main and it left. my friend spent the rest of his life trying to deploy the reserve. He was 29 had almost 1000 jumps and was fantastic in the air. His father videoed the entire thing. We used to fruit loop each other after every jump...At times we got open LOW. All in all, I'd say it is a bad idea. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Go Fast....Just remember this and if you are ever in charge...Don't be a dick. YES! Most companies want to know what you did, and a discharge anything other than "honorable" will prevent you from many jobs. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not bad, some do it and move on. No problem with that or them. Not a bad option. If you don't like that...no problem, move on with your life. This is the best option I think. But lets be honest, maybe you just do not like jumping that much...Its OK, you did more than 99% of the world will ever do. If you are unsure, do the AFF and then decide. I'd do the AFF personally. This sport is not for everyone, and thats OK. I have had students land and NEED to jump again. I have also had others who would never do it again no matter what. BOTH are OK. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you can get a real 3 canopy system where the handles are close to normal...then it is a great training aid. One version of this I saw was a 3rd canopy on a chest mount. You deployed a normal main, made it mal, then cutaway and deployed the normal reserve. If THAT mal'd, you deployed the chest mount. The best version I have seen is Vectors system. But it has so many more handles than normal that they do not let just anyone jump it. Strong has a rig that I have heard about. All in all I would say that if you could get a 3 rig system that used the same procedures as a normal system that it would be a good idea. Any other systems are just carnival rides and do not help train....And some of the deployment methods are just a bad idea.....Packing a canopy in a paper bag, holding it as you jump and then throwing it?!?!?!?!? It can be done, it does not mean it SHOULD be done. It would suck to go from "fake" practice to real emergency due to getting caught up in your "main". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I know one very experienced jumper who is dead due to problems with an intentional cutaway rig. Bad advice to recommend *anyone* at *any experience* level. It is a good idea for people who are pretty experienced and that go through a good training program before they use it. I bet that if we had these rigs at every DZ, that more people who get killed using them. Also your system is nowhere close to real. You go back into freefall and deploy the MAIN. That is not something you would ever do in real life. So while your system will provide someone the "cutaway" portion of the training, the "reserve" portion (I think the most important) is missing. You version is fun, but not a real training aid since the procedures are totally different. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334