freakydiver

Was going to ask same thing thanks!!! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Ain't it great? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

There is a booze luge? This I gotta try. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

DOH - they are after me now for sure. Please step away from the monitor as this message will self distruct in 5 seconds. BTW - I just saw those pics from what I think is your home DZ (It was pics of four other people and yourself). THAT PLACE LOOKS LIKE IT ROCKS THE HOUSE MAN!!!!!!!! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I had my A for like 8 years if that makes anyone feel any better -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

things that go? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

ROFL - man you don't remember back in Nam when we did that hybrid into battle? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Very well put - most of the friends I jump with have no desire to downsize anytime soon because at 1.3 - 1.5 they can sufficiently "scare themselves" while still being conservative given their jump numbers and experience levels. IMHO - too many people are jumping on the downsize bandwagon becuase it is the "cool" thing to be doing. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I will never relax about safety. Ever. I am sick and tired of people relaxing about safety as I have seen the trend go in ten years. Again, Funks, my only intent is to perhaps help one jumper be a safer jumper. If you have a problem with that, perhaps you shouldn't be in this sport at all. If I see a fucking trend in the sport, why not bring it to the attention of other jumpers just for the small chance that one person might learn from it? BTW bud - why no numbers in your profile? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Ron jumping up and down saying "I told you so" -- He doesn't say it everytime. I mean, if you are going to do a broad statisitcal analysis like that, you should at least be correct when talking down to someone such as Ron imho. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Done - and "props" (heh) on the letter btw. Very well put indeed. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Oh trust me - I know, Ron and I have gone head to head a few times, but in all honesty, I got nuthin but respect for what he says and how he puts it. IMHO, too many people beat around the bush around here when they shouldn't. I don't think (oh this is going to be good Ron) Ron knows anything about bushes (now that was a loaded statement) (Sorry Ron, this thread has gotten a bit funny hehehe)!!!!! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Luckily, one of my first pilots stood in in the AFF class and explained things quite similarly to the way I've hear you and Billvon have explained things. I do think there is a growing problem in our precious sport in horiz separation. This weekend for instance, we were out first out of a King Air - a four way sit, poised door exit. We exit, I'm second to rear in the train, and guy behind me is last in the train (duh freaky). He trains up with me, the two guys in front cork. We turn towards the plane about five seconds after exit, low and behold THERE IS SOMEONE EXITING. I was PISSSSSSSSSED. Low uppers all day, 5 seconds, dude is leaving the plane. There should seriously be some additions to learning materials about seperation distances and time based on all factors involved as imho, too many people are taking things for granted. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Wow! Look WrongWay - if you can take it from Ron you can take it from anyone (Joking Ron!!!) LOLOL -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

If you think I'm wasting my time typing away here just to win an argument when my intent is simply to perhaps open the eyes of some jumpers, please, do not insult my intelligence as you couldn't be further off base. The question is simple as everyone but two people seem to think. WHAT IS EASIER TO PLAN FOR? I could care less about winning shit my friend, trust me - while I do enjoy dropzone.com during the day, I don't think about it for two seconds at night and on the weekends. How many times do I have to reiterate - I think too many people have become complacent with their canopy patterns. I think too many people take for granted what is below or behind them and don't actually take a real good look before performing maneuvers. I've seen this with my own eyes in the past ten years, I've seen it go downhill. I've seen alot more people cut off this year than I did last year. This is my point - what the hell is so difficult to understand about what I am trying to say. Look "AFF1 student" (not you Rick, just saying in general), don't take for granted the airspace you are in or the airspace you are about to spiral down into, don't plan ahead of time that the airspace will be clear and free. Look around, look around again, look around again, look some more. It is so funny how DZ.com posts can turn into personal battles, you think that is what I am engaged in which couldn't be further from the truth. I am trying to get people to realize that planning is great and all, but don't plan for something under canopy when factors are constantly changing ALL THE TIME. The powerlines otoh, can generally be planned for within say 4-5 miles of a given DZ if they have a decent aerial photo. My only intent is safety, to see a jumper jump another day, to see a jumper NOT collide with another jumper under canopy ever again because he or she planned that no one would be where they just spiraled to. I sincerely ask this question to all, are my intentions wrong? Does my poll not attempt to get people to realize that planning for other canopies is not as safe as actually looking for them? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Nice perspective, as always Bill. Sounds scary to say the least. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

In the spirit of my original idea behind this thread, I will not say anything in response to you because you are the one beating a dead horse. I simply want one student to realize that they should be much more diligent in looking for canopies than they should about powerlines given the fact that powerlines: a) do not move b) can be pointed out and studied on a map c) generally sit near things we wouldn't want to land on, near, or through anyways I apologize to all for caring about this subject so much, but there was one completely obvious incident already this year where someone became complacent with "get where I've already planned" - itis and collided with someone midair killing them. Just a thought, but, if that person had been more diligent about scoping for canopies during all phases of that single canopy flight, things may have turned out differently. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Just trying to help one person not die because they took for granted where canopies should and shouldn't be. Doesn't seem like a dead horse to me. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Nope - if you read the original question - its about "planning" not visibility. Please pay attention to the poll at hand. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I really hope you aren't planning on landing in that tree line. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Nope... I agree with DD that its great that we are all talking about safety. I disagree still that its easier to plan for other canopies while under one compared to things that don't move and can be looked at on a map. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Its not a loaded question at all - simply put, which is easier to plan for, did I stutter before. If you can't or won't answer the question, stop bothering my thread and go away. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

No Satriani or Vai?? What about Classical, I used to know classically trained guitarists that could do more than all 9 of those combined... Granted they didn't have a rock band and weren't popular though -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

How do you do that??? PS Anyone reading this... I mean absolutely no disrespect to Roger or the individual who was involved with Roger's incident. It is a testament to how the people of this sport can be - even in the worst types of situations, we all end up supporting one another and I would gladly support anyone and all hurting from Roger not being around anymore. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Completely - and seriously, I don't mean any kind of offense dd. I really think 99.9999999999 (okay screw it 100%) of your posts have merit!!! Done ranting and raving, I agree with you. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --