freakydiver

"Do you have to the member of USPA if you want to skydive in US?" Most people are. "Having experience is just one of those factors that leads to an acident..." IMHO - not true. At 150 jumps under a Sabre 135 loaded at 1.3 at the time, I made a very bad error becuase of my lack of experience and left a big ass divot where my face hit - 4 inches deep about. People thought I was dead. I had made the 50 jumps of 100-150 in a very short time and felt as though I knew it all. There is much much more to flying a HP canopy fast than just the canopy itself. MANY more things. It wasn't until about a year ago and 500 jumps later on that same canopy that I feel as though I've reached a level to be able to completely ascertain a swooping oppurtunity and say "yes" or "no" to. Most people with low jump numbers just haven't seen enough things in the air to make those types of decisions. Luckily, I had a great support system while learning under that canopy and never made such a bad mistake ever again - because I was being guided very closely. Having experience leads to knowledge which leads to the ability to say "yes" or "no" given all factors surrounding high performance landings and that is what is important. That said, I believe experience and knowledge can begin at very low jump numbers given a good set of learning tools - look at AFF and how it has progressed the sport of skydiving. It is a structured learning program. There really could and should be a similar program to take people to the next level of parachute flight since it is as or more complicated in some aspects than freefall itself imho. Not ever really having taken a canopy instruction course, I can't say those are working or not, but I imagine there are really good ones out there that teach pepole a good foundation for progressing to a faster and longer swoop. Only education will save the next generation of femurers. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I couldn't have put it better -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

-- Accusing the prof of "bad logic"? ...That just aint a phrase you'll ever see me use in that exchange scenario, that's for sure -- Yah I learned that one early on. Once a prof always a prof. Hah! -- Watching now from the sidelines.... -- Here here! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Starting to wonder about MileHi II )-: -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

So what? Whats wrong with questioning someones opinions? But no doubt TAKE COVER!!!!!! LOL -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

REALLY well done dood!!!!!! Hope you are alright, but all in all great decisions and good logic for making those decisions. Good luck with everything!! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

No doubt no doubt - I am mentally done with this battle anywho MMMMMMMMMM East Troy HERE I COME!!!!!!! Avoid everything negative! lol -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I understand where you are coming from Rick - I never meant to twist words coming from you and apologize if that is what happened. My sole intent was to help educate the average passer/readerby person to prepare for powerlines by scouring any aerial photos of their DZ on a given day, and to swivel their heads like crazy under canopy expecting the worse. My wanting you to look at the poll results has nothing to do with discrediting anyone - it just shows the overall consensus that has been proven - people seem to think that powerlines can be planned for better than canopies i.e. my original point and intent in this post spurred by our other conversation. Anyhow - I know you are an experienced skydiver and I'm sure you teach these things well and my intent wasn't to show you the way (you have close to seven times the number of jumps I have, no doubt seven times the amount of experience), my intent was only to help people realize that they shouldn't plan on a canopy not being where it shouldn't be or planning on a canopy being where it should. Swivel the head is all I'm getting at. Blue ones (sorry for the lame ass cloudy one comment - I would never honestly wish that on any of our race!!). -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Two seperate threads completely. I was angered, and apologized, by your's and Kallend's perceived sarcasm is all. Again, I offer you my apologies for getting angry with you, regardless, have a look a the poll results and try to see things from my standpoint. No harm intended, simply a suggestion. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Strange - I don't see that post here, am I missing something? My reference was to the following comment (everyone read: I am of sound mind right now and am only responding to Rick. My voice is not raised. I am not angry. I am only "arguing" my point which is precisley the point of a "discussion forum"): "Still beating a dead horse?" This is a comment that actually got posted in this thread from you Rick. It is sarcastic in nature, anyone with a decent amount of education can see that. IMHO it does not add to this thread in the least, it only takes away from others who may be reading it. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Chime - is Bill God? Anyone?? No but seriously - you are right. Thank you for your thoughts as they are highly respected in my brain. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Well put - if I may - kids can show you just as much about yourself as anything else in the world though. IMHO its a helluva lot easier to BASE than it is to KIDS (). But seriously, I guess I could rephrase my original post to say something like, I won't personally BASE if I ever have kids because I would consider it selfish to my own kids. I don't look at anyone else with negative eyes for what they do as the world is a free place and to each his own. Well put though. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I just think that the chance of not being around to raise my children isn't worth anything. I realize the reasons people base. I also realize the chances one has of getting themselves in serious injury situations or death. If I'm going to have kids, I plan on being around as long as possible to raise them is all and lets face it, and if you disagree, you certainly don't understand the negative facets of base, but base IS NOT safe nor will it ever be. I'm not bashing anyone for their decisions, just explaining why I said what I said. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

ROFL!!!!!!!! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Hey check that 'Messages' link up top underneat News and Calendar... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Ummm - I think you are just agreeing with what I said. My only point was that my close jumping friends AND myself are not in any hurry to downsize and you don't sound like you are either which probably saved your ass. Also, I'm sure of my ass in all circumstances becuase I've been in just about all of them. Too deep in the corner, WAY out with no outs, a few backyard landings, two water landings, a few braked turns necessitated by being cut off, ummmm.... I think the point is, I agree with you, higher WL doesn't mean better swoops. More experience means more efficient use of the wing and better swoops. Anyhow - here's to a fast recovery and glad you are still with us fo sho! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Guys - I was definately being mean - heh, if someone is a smartass in my thread, it pisses me off and I get angry. I admitted and admit to it. I will attempt to grow as a human now and reduce the anger level I allow myself to get to. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Well put Bill. My I ask, does my line of thinking make sense to you - i.e. one should never plan for canopies whereabouts, but constantly be on the lookout for them, while generally a landing area can safely be scoped out and decided upon given some average facts like there probably isn't powerlines in the middle of a field? Just wondering... Anyhow - blue ones everyone! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Sorry - I tend to get defensive when someone is on the offensive. To all threaders involved in this thread - I will admit I did get angry. I apologize for this. Also, I don't think I was being mean about my point, just how someone was attacking it which IMHO was not called for in this thread (Kallend and SkydiveRick). I don't think its a loaded question as Kallend suggested (which pisses me off because it isn't remotely my intent) nor do I think I'm attempting to win any arguments which is what SkydiverRick suggested. You are very right tho SG, I shouldn't get pissed off and for that I apologize directly to Kallend and Rick as well as Funks. Anyhow - I'm comin home to get married tomorrow, Fish and Toad and Stevie Brown and I are jumping in. Then I'm off to Aruba for a week. Then I'll be up by you all for some fun jumping!! Drop me a PM as I'd LOVE to see you and do a few jumps which cha. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Hey you don't look Crazy -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I thrid that completely. People need to care about living before they die - not working for posessions. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Mach1 baby! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

ROFL People think I am an asshole too Ron. Look at my recent poll in General Skydiving Discussions. Like I said, I sincerely prefer assholism in your face rather than timid non acting non safe type attitudes. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Understandably so. It is certainly tough for us non-pilots to make judgements though, and quite frankly, that scares the living piss out of me sometimes when I get on the plane. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Hey man - if small DZs go out of business because of safety issue - survival of the fittest. I'm ALL for it. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --