rhys

I first heard the term 'Fly big' in reference to JVX's when the first hit the market, more specifically the sail cloth models. I beleive the term means that a JVX compared to another type of crossbraced canopy of the same size will produce more lift and therefore one should consder a size smaller, as the same sized JVX comaperd to a velo would produce more lift which equals more drag and a shorter recovery arc. Some will say a velocity will dive more so is more efficient which is true to a certain extent when you condiser the manoever we do to make a high performance landing. I beleive this is why JVX's and velos still produce similar results. JVX's produce more lift due to having a more efficient (thinner, more rigid, no stablisers and possible stiffer material) airfoils. So I would say no, velocities do not fly big compared to a JVX of the same size but yes if you compare a velocity to a crossfire (or any other non crossbraced) of the same size. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Well, pull in when you come through then. We are in a bottle kneck town on the west coast of the south island, and our plane goes to 18k on most loads!. If you are coming to see the beauty then do not miss the west coast! Everybody gets a fresh start to define their personality and as long as you can handle a jab in the ribs every now and then you'll be just fine. We 'take the piss' out of each other for fun and we take as much as we give, simple. No anger, just good old honest fun. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

haha, you guys don;t get it do ya, laughing at a some idiotic and childish stupid think me cult is far from angry. I am laughing at the concept, not angry with it. but i'm sure ya'll will find some way to spin it around. You are quite welcome to be as pathetic as you please, and I am quite within my rights to express my thoughts on the matter. and as for the Kiwi thing, yes I am a kiwi, in New Zealand (and Australia for that matter ...squeak!) we take the piss out of each other, any weakness is exploited and that is how we roll. It keeps us honest. It seems many here cannot handle being mocked yet they don't mind dishing it out. You lot would last about 10 minutes around here! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Mwa hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhaahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahhahahahahahahaahhaahahahahahahahahahaahahhaah snort cough hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhaahhaahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahhahahahahahahaahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahhaahhaahhaahhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahhaahahahahah ahahahahahahahhaah. I don't live a lie and I am not scared to speak my mind. How does that equate to angry and sad?, I am laughing at the stupidity of this dudiest thing, I am having fun, and I am happy. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

No but defending murdering tyrants while trying to claim that someone working within the rules is breaking the law is. It is not only pathetic, but completely ignorant. Your avitar is quite appropriate too aparently. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Seriously, the whole dudiest thing is pathetic. You might as well be playing in the sandpit making your action figures fly around shooting imaginary lazers... "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Fuck that is gay! What is with this dudiest bullshit anyway, do you realise how stupid and childish it sounds. Grow up. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Bro, do we really need to have this discussion? A braked landing is an induced speed landing, the braked approach lets the canppy surge and increases the forward speed and flare compared to coming straight in. Sashay movements reduce forward speed. This can be advantagous (for safety) if one is going to over shoot into an obsticle, but if it is perfomed simply to land next the camea guy then it is not benifical as far as safety is concerned. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I said earlier that he would have been better off coming straight in. Nothing wrong with coming straight in. To turn right, then left and land in a similar direction as you approached from; only reduces your foward speed, and in tun your flare and the safety of the student. I never said inducing speed should be done on every landing it should not. That takes practice and experience, but washing off speed certainly should not be done and only increased the liklihood of an incident. the approach was not the reason i bought all this up, it was you attitude and and comments about 'Mad Skilz'. When it comes to passing knowledge you need to respect everyone as an IE not just those you are buddies with. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

First i have seen of it, sheesh what a close call. He could have had not a bad run down that hill afterwards right down to the tarn. but seriously they had alot of time to see where the were. I jump in an area with hills and mountains too, and we must must must check the spot. complacency kills. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

That was a personal attack that adds nothing but contempt to the conversation. If you are going to add to the converstaion, I suggest you add something worth while or simply keep your disrepectful thoughts to yourself. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

As you are an IE, the above comment is very bad form. You should be aware that washing off speed before landing is bad form, correcting you approach while washing off speed to meet the camera guy, is bad form also. You need to re evaluate how you present yourself as an IE. Mocking newer, keener TI's that are not quite grasping some fundamentals is far from professional, with your type of comments, he will simply ignore everything you have to say (and potentially continue to make the same mistakes). Pick up your game and show some respect for those that are keen to learn. Yes some are a bit too keen, may day some silly things and they maybe surrounded by compacent TI's that give them incorrect information. You job is to nurture people through their experience, not mock them. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I have to appologise (to you) as it was not you that gave him a grilling. These 2 comments did not add to the conversation, they turned to conversation into a tangent. So once again I apologise for insinuating that it was you, your comments have been nothing but professional. The conversation changed (at the point the above comments were made) from the touchdown to the approach, I agree entirely with jumpdude that that approach could have been performed a bit better and if so the landing could have been stood up. Customers get a great sense of satisfaction if they stand up the landing, so if it is safe, whay not stand up? There was nothing at all wrong with the actual landing, I land like that when my approach was not performed within my window of acceptance for a stand up. which by the way would be 20% of the time. Yes and when I stand up the customers do not touch the ground until we have come to a complete stop. they just put thier feet down. That is my briefing to them "keep your feet up, until we come to a complete stop". I slide, they keep thie feet up. I will post a video later to show you what I mean. Once again I apologise for mistaking you for the others. Sorry "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Evaluating appoaches from video is common from aff, high performance canopy piloting to tandem examination. So I really do not understand what you are saying. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Cheaper or less expensive? Even with the same trim and size are the linesets the same length? I don't like the stiletto type short recovery arc and the over elliptical wing. price is only one of the factors and i can use parachutes until i want to fork out for a glx. having said that, I want to try one of these... I would like trim on my risers however to match the terrain and wind strength. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

interesting, do you have a trim setup in the GLX's? I am yet to try GLX, but one is high on my hit list. My friend purchased the first GLX (that was not a test wing) from aerosports in 2003, so it is about time. Still if you exceed the trim capabilities of a speed wing will it frontal collapse? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Evaluating an approach from a video of the said approach is common practice. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

the result of the landing was fine, the approch was not very well executed. I am not having a go at him about his landings, it is the grilling he and mike gave jump dude for suggesting perfectly sensible changes that could have been made. then they were idiots, it is not difficult to determine what can be stood up and what cannot. I will only stand up if the approach was well executed, don't use some wanker that broke a passengers ankles as an example of why landing should not be stood up. comments like that are what created the dorkzone.com stigma. practice what you preach. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

True that but can you pull the front risers? After watching nzaerosports 'summer of love' test flights ( Ilona and Foxy )I am very dubious of trying such manoevers on canopies that are not designed for such. those were the designs that did not work out well, Clara and petra were very nice. my observations of the frontal collapses at high wingloadings scared the shit out of me and i like to use fronts when speed flying. I try to fly my risers where possible and save my toggles for landing. I will add some risers with trim to my Icarus 105 which is quite an agressive canopy (also and experiemntal from nzaerosports from 1993), but from what I can see, speed wings fly different and react different and recover different to parachutes, my Icarus 105 is quite square, has quite a steep trim and longer lines. I get my skis soon and the snow will start falling in a few months, I will stick to parachutes and really want a GLX. We have big steep mountains here in NZ so no need for pissing around with a mellow trim. As I said, different strokes for different folks, but the whippy, overelliptical, short recovery of speed wings does not tickle my fancy, I prefer nice smooth long carving turns. of a relatively square (slightly tapered) parachute. but that is just me... "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

You get what put into it. I gave it my all, started with nothing, and got a beautiful wife, to visit 15 countries, a great career and now I am a DZO. Sometimes I payed for jumos and others not, My DZ offers free fun jumps for staff. The situation is different at almost every DZ so it takes some travel to find what you like best, or to simply appreciate what you have already. Aside from all that I get a tremendous amount of satisfacton knowing many people that I take on a skydive have just done the best thing they will ever do in their life. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I suggest you go back and watch the video. it was a 45 degree turn to the right that was corrected back towards the left which resulted in a total direction change of about 15-20 degrees. So really all the turn achieved is less forward speed and a pendulum/ sache effect. He would have been better off coming straight in. The rest of your rant looks like an attemt to pluck strings and create an argument about how I am a DZO that just wants to make money and you are an IE that wants to make the sport safer. I am not going to go there, I know what your persona is like, I just suggest you work on you mathmatical and observagtion skills as you description of that turn was completely incorrect and as an IE you should be able to assess such a turn and make sure that people do not intentionally wash off their speed immediatly prior to landing. As a DZO I would take them aside and quietly ask them to either fly staight in or do a 45 or 90 turn, correcting back towards the camera guy is a no no... Landing is the most important part of the jump. You can fuck up your exit, you can fuck up your spot and get away with it sometimes, sometimes not; but the landing is very very important a fuck up is more difficult to get away with. It is important for you as an IE to determine what is correct and what is not. These forums are not just for those that wish to paticpate in writing, they are more often for those that simply read and I hate to see ( and i see all to often) people attacking those with a different point of view. Discussion is how we learn. We are not all right, and we cannot be right all the time, what we learn depends on what we are told. All too often the incorrect information is portrayed on this site and I see it repeated in the field. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Every approach has an element of danger, I did not intent to imply that you were being dangerous, simply that the small turn and a correction in the other direction immediately before touchdown is 'more dangerous' than a nice 90 degree approach. Jump dude suggested that you could have turned for longer and you could have stood it up. He was correct. As for the low thing, you are a swooper, you know that the higher the turn the more margin for error. If you start a 90 degree turn you will have to start it higher than what you did there, I do not advocate 180 degree turns or more on a tandem. but turning higher = more margin for error, more speed, more flare... "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

xlanders are more expensive but i know 2 people that have them and the metal ring falls off. i have a vector and love it, when it is too scratched or breaks... I will get another vector. upgrading models is not always equal to upgrading quality. simple is better. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Really he is correct, that approach (of johnnys on youtube) if anything is more dangerous than a nice long 90 degree approach from a little higher. The turn was initiated low, was over steered and then corrected but still could have been flared more efficiently, and yes; stood up! That was a poorly executed approach IMHO, not terrible but not a good example at all. Jump dude was correct in saying it could have been performed better and stood up. Attacking him for discussing his point of view is unprofessional and idiotic. i am unaware of his opinions on other subjects but that is beside the point. And Furthermore... This 'mad skillz' bullshit really pisses me off. Yes there are some wankers that this applies to but someone with thousands of tandems that stands them up every time due to knowing what to do, having experience doing so with confidience, competence and skill; getting grilled by some kook that tries to imply that someone with more skill and competence than them is being dangerous simply because the said person cannot perform such a manoever confidently... Is also a wanker. If you are not competent enough to stand up 90% of your landings, don't criticise someone that is. learners should not be trying to attemt to do this, but EXPERIENCE will give you this skill. I 'can' stand up in nill wind to high winds. You will see me sitting down when we are getting to our wind limit to save being dragged or lifted off the ground if the catchers fail. No I dont stand up every landing, I stand up when everything is performed correctly. Very simple, sometimes we just slide in. and that is still OK. there is nothing wrong with sliding in, there is definately something wrong with criticising those with more competence than you. That is not to say some people do not put their customers in danger with poorly executed approaches, but most that I see are very good at performing landings they do ovr 1000 of them each year, and the ones that cannot do soare usually the people that put thier customers in peril due to inexperience. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Hi, I went speed flying with my friend the other day he has a Nano I have an Icarus 105. His Nano would give him much more lift and he would have to make more manoevers to stay in proximity to the ground. My wing would stay with the ground more easily but would not be suitable for a slope with less of an angle. So to answer your question, yes there is a significant difference between speed flying wings and parachutes, but there are newer and newer models coming out with steeper and steeper trim, as the sport progresses. I will stick to parachutes as they are what I know and the speed flying wings look far too twitchy for my liking. Different strokes for different folks. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix