Treejumps

*** "First we'd have to jump there like we always have, by not making a spectacle of ourselves" That works great, but what about the pepole who jump SOLEY to make a specatcle of themselves? I can see it now, with certain jumpers handing out balloons to the kids first, DOOOOD, like I'm going to jump off of this cliff. Its RAD. Got all of your cameras rolling? You can even have my autograph. Want to try it with my extra rigs. DOOOD! WOOOOO! Oh well, it was a good idea. Seriously, that is the problem with legal jumps there. Then they'll want to drive their car off while on fire and jump out. Etc, etc, etc.....

If you had the skill to do a front after a 1/2 second of freefall, and then stop it without over rotating, and/or pull at the precise time required to pitch out of a front flip.......... you would not have been head low in the first place. Besides, if it is a slider down object you just don't have the time and if it is slider up it doesn't matter, you can just track out of it. Of course if it was slider up you would have already been doing at least a back 1-1/2 with a twist, so you couldn't be head low. Hope this helps.

*** "Once rules are in place I wouldn't be surprised to see BASE jumpers calling the rangers on other BASE jumpers if they think they're not following said rules" I would be surprised at jumpers calling the law on other jumpers. That would be breaking the prime directive. No matter how much I disagree with another's actions, I could never lift a finger to call johnny law. If it comes to needing to take actions that strong, its time to heat up the proverbial tar. In reality we are self policing, and that may mean having to deal out justice, the problem is no one wants to hurt anyone elses feelings, even wha they ARE being giant dicks to their fellow jumper. Yes, it would be great if we could all just do what we want and not have it negatively affect others. Unfortunately one person can screw the pooch for the rest. So yes, if legal jumps are made possible in Yosemite, I would like to make them. The fine is too great and the travel too far for me to risk it. But I will get out there as soon as it opens because there will always be another flatbed 10 who will put their selfish interests and ego before all others. I can live with a few rules long before I can live with a $10,000 fine, loss of my gear, and a federal criminal record.

*** "i don't care to share the sky with someone whom i think could or may be UTI." Answer: No If you don't want to be on a jump with people who are partying, don't jump with them. If you need to feel alll warm and fuzzy that no one on the load is, stay home. If DZOs want to test their employees they can. If they want to test their customers, they are out of their minds and shortly thereafter, out of business.

Thanks, I could not find my manual.

That would be for the gutted Type II, but the spec is Type IIA, which has no core to start with, so it can't actually be "coreless". I'm guessing that Bill Booth's spec of 550# Type IIa is probably correct. I'll call and check it out. It would be nice to know for sure.

*** "I deserve to be taken asside and have my nether regions fettled with a blunt instrument. " Which I will gladly help you with for the emasculation bit.

Another fantasitic post Ian. I can not add anything to what you just said. My work here is done.

Hi Tom, Those are all great points Tom, and I agree that a 3 ring system is not 100% guaranteed, especially given the 4 or 5 innadvertant release being discussed. It is a really good system when properly set up and maintained. At 250#s I load that system more than most BASE jumpers, and I feel confident that it will continue to work for me. I check my 3 ring before every jump, and that is an important step in the proper operation. The 3 ring release manual calls for Type 2A, 550# sheathing (mil-T-5038). I don't know if it is always followed, but that is what the spec is. Also acording to the manual , when a 600# force is applied to the riser the force needed to extract the cable should be 2 to 6#s. I hate that people have to get hurt to bring up gear topics liek this, but this is a good discussion. Being able to release is not always required, but it is useful to have, and sometimes, like a swift water landing, an absolute must. Until something better comes along most jumpers will continue to use the 3 ring, and it is important to know your gear inside and out, chech it before each jump, and replace it if in any doubt. Thanks for the discussion, and thanks again for the jump.

Zip ties were used in the early to mid 80s by jumpers who wanted a little extra guarantee. I still think that a properly maintained 3 ring sytem is bombproof. I don't know what happened to the failed loop, but Bill Booth posts on DZ.com and can elaboraate on the actual forces plpaced on the loop. I have the 3 ring design specs to build risers, and I have tried to learn all I can from Bill's explanation of forces on the 3 ring system. Accordingly, the force on the loop should never exceed 75#. At 75# the cable gets sucked through the grommet. The loop is rated at 550#, and it is double where the little ring touches it. Therefore the loop had to have its strength diminshed by a factor approcahing 75% for the break to occur, otherwise the cable would have gone through the grommet. Something does not add up with the loop failure. Maybe a burr on the little ring ate through the loop. You would have to drap your gear miles to wear out a loop enough for that kind of failure. Check your gear. Its not the 1 in 1000 thing that kills us, its the 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 thing that gets us.

*** But that might be because I have a huge poster of a BASE jump above the couches where tandem passengers fill out the waivers. You think that might have somehting to with it?

How much clearer can I make it? I don't have a problem with you selling pics of base, skydiving, or anything else. I don't see how having tandem customers ask you about base equates to anything good FOR base. I also highly doubt its 10 a day, or even 10 a month. I worked a little DZ called Cross Keys the last two years, and with 200 + tandems a weekend going through there I can remember maybe 5 people in 2 years mentioning base. And its not like they were shoving money in my pockets to tell them stories, show them videos, or asking for instruction, it was merely a curious inquiry. Will they sign up for a visa card just becasue it has a base jumper on it? Maybe. Will the current "extreme everything" marketing phase pass? Yes, so cash in while you can, everything is cyclical. Edited to take out cheap shot.

Well said Tom. Whether either side is right is moot with that summarization.

Whos changing the subject? *** "what Jimmy is hoping for is to use base to sell products. I don't have a problem with capitalism", but call it what it is. *** "So use base to sell everything you can, but don't think that it is doing base a favor" I pulled these 2 quotes out of my last post. What part of them are unclear? I don't have a problem with anyone selling photos of base to advertisers to help them sell their products. Just don't confuse selling photos or video of base for personal gain with doing something for the betterment of the sport. For an example of someone doing something FOR the sport, take notice of the ABP. So by your definition Jimmy, everyone who does not live in a dumpster at the DZ is merely a base hobbiest? As far as I know that is nearly everyone except for you and a few of your pals. Best of luck selling your photos.

*** "improving the public's perception of BASE and possibly regaining access to many of the best exit points in the US and elsewhere." This would be a noble cause, however, what Glider seems to be talking about, and what Jimmy is hoping for is to use base to sell products. I don't have a problme with capitalism, but call it what it is. Base is far from the next big thing, unless you are just late to the party. In fact it is very small and will always be very small, even with death camps and Kibbles camps. In reality, the "extreming" of everything from snowboarding to ironing detracts from that which really is, pretty extreme. To a 10 year old, doing a big trick on a 12' half pipe seems at least as exciting if not much more than a base jump, mainly because he knows how diffcult the half pipe trick is and base doesn't really look" that hard. Yes, there are images that we might find "inspiring", but thats just us and our perspective. To many folks the jumpers in a cliff photo are just taking away from natural beauty, or they are just a pic of some crazies in action. So use base to sell everything you can, but don't think that it is doing base a favor. I don't see how selling a box of Tide Extreme is going to get Yosemite opened back up.

Maybe I missed the answer in your last 3 full pages of writing, but the question asked a couple of different times was "are you a base jumper?". Have you ever base jumped?

Those are good points Jaap. Education and knowlege are required to safely use todays' equipment. As more people are "deathcamped", the likelihood of people dying because of a lack of basic rigging skills does increase. L bars have their place, but not everyplace. BASE requires critical thinking skiils. This applies to gear as well. The 3 ring has proven itself over the last 25 years, and it works well if properly maintained. If there was a better system for a release system, it probably would have surfaced by now. The long and short of it seems to be that if you don't need to be able to release, use L bars, but if you jump near water, land in trees, or occaisionally need to run off without your canopy to avoid detention, the 3 ring is currently the best system. YMMV

Can I jump the Hamburgler outfit. He is BASE material all the way.

Hi Jaap, What did you have in mind? The 3 ring system is incredibly reliable. To my knowledge, there has been one inadvertant release on one riser (one side) in the base environment in the entire history of base. The 3 ring requires very little maintenance, and needs only a quick visual check at packing or pre jump to they are still properly hooked up. What do you find innadequate about the current technology?

Ian, what an awesome post. You are my new hero. Skinflicka, you are now a pretender to the sarcastic throne. Well done!

Wind tunnels like skyventure can be built for 2 to 4 million. I did a fairly complete buisness plan on on them several years ago. A base specific tower is a nice idea, but who is going to travel to jump an A when they have them all over the place for nothing. Sure, a few people will who won't jump at night or don't do illegal jumps, and sure, I'd love to do a daytime tower jump or two. I think that it would be hard to make the payments on a tower with base income. Lets say you charged $10 per elevator ride, at 10,000 jumps per year thats only $100,000 in annual revenue. The payment book on $2M would be around $15,000.00 per year, and that does not include any other operating expenses like insurance, labor, etc. I guess that if you could rent out some space for transmitters you could get it to break even, but I'm just not sure the economics are there.... yet. If only Donald Trump had a soft spot for base jumpers.

That is some awesome old school video. Perfect exit and a nice 2 sec delay. With a ripcord even.

Way to heal up quickly! Nothing is harder than coming back from an injury. Nice job. Cya.

Good luck Jimmy. Unfortuanately, almost everything original has been done, long ago. Low aerials done five years ago by DW, Jeb, and others set the high water mark, so I agree that they are passe. (Dude, that means like so last week). Same with totem poles, (dudes sitting on dudes shoulders as they jump) they were doing that at Kjerag in the late 90s with skydiving gear. How about freeflying from 1500' towers? Damn, I remember Dwain and DJ doing that years ago too. What's a guy gotta do to come up with a single original idea around here? Skiing off cliffs is cool too, but again, wasn't that first done 15 years ago for a Bond film, and many times since? Dude, there must be something thats actually original, isn't there? Of course put lots of rollovers in the film, I am certain that the paraglider who started that move won't mind, he's probably out actually doing coming up with something new. I think your on to something just asking everyone else to come up with something new for you. That is some idea. You could do a flick about a bunch of guys in their mid 30s who act like they are 15 and its like, still 1983. Dude, that would be radical. But please, leave the 1980s hair metal out of this one. We wore out the mute buttom watching Radix. Cheers!

I called bullshit when they used Meter as a unit of measurement.