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He dealt the hand, and he left two shitty options behind. Ya, Obama and Hillary So be honest. Leaving Iraq isn't why you don't like Hillary, you'd have bitched about a decision to stay just as much... because you don't like Hillary anyway. Back when life was good, we didn't really care about politics. . . fuck, life was good under Clinton. But now we know better than to vote Hillary based on sexism and 90s nostalgia. . . When shit starts sucking - we take notice. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Ya, well he wasn't the fucking president at the time, was he? Probably not - we'd be more interested in who Trump was gonna fire next. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Speaking as someone who makes his living hauling freight across your northern border I can assure you the better security is in place. Far better than before 9/11. Ya, back in college we could bounce back n' forth freely across the bridge/tunnel as drunk as we wanted - not anymore - the terrorist have won! Back in 2011 the Obama admin practically halted all middle eastern immigration after Iraqi operatives snuck in through the refugee program. Cries of paranoia and xenophobia only ensued when conservative Christians called for a similar suspension in 2015. Ya, because bombing shit and flying planes into buildings is fucking terrifying. Sure, but people forget that 911 happened before the fall of Saddam and the destabilization of the middle-east - it could've very well persisted any witch way. Ultimately it was the fault of the Obama/Hillary admin for pulling out and creating the vacuum. She's already proved herself to be incompetent and powerless. Vote for that? - Never. She had her chance to change the world and fucking blew it. Now it's time for Bushmills mode: Hey You! Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

It is. What is the goal of the terrorists? The real danger is that we help them achieve it. Like GWB and the neo-cons did. A long while back, billvon suggested better defense. "A stronger military here at home. Better borders. Better security on rails and in port. Better satellite surveillance." Today, words like "borders" and "surveillance" are enough to label one as paranoid and/or xenaphobic. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Your apathy does not negate the real fear that others may have regarding the issue, nor the action needed to relieve it. Skydiving and traffic fatalities are risks we are willing to accept. They are accidents - and the yearly averages are rather predictable. Terrorism is deliberate, not an accident. It is unpredictable and can affect any number of people, at any time, anywhere in the world without discrimination. It's a fucking cancer - and we're not willing to accept it. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Nope. You're vastly exaggerating the points of view that have been expressed here My patience must've grown a bit too thin for all the godwinian weasel words that had been expressed in here recently. If the viewpoint in question was initially articulated as accurately as you explained in post #283 describing Trump as a populist using every demagogic trick from the national socialist playbook, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

If that's all you see then you're walking around with a pretty sizeable set of blinders on. You seem to be determined to stick to that narrative no matter what though so I don't think there's any point explaining (again) why the xenophobes are xenophobic. ...but you're missing the moral of the whole story - that if people are gonna scare themselves shitless over some fictive that Trump and his supporters somehow represent a new age Nazi-like regime, then IMO, you pretty much lose the fucking right to call someone else out on their paranoia. Sure. If those people existed. Pretty sizeable blinders you got there. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Don't forget toddlers with guns ...and politically incorrect toddlers with guns ...and racist toddlers with guns Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I don't think it's so much about losing readers. If someone doesn't like all or part of an ideology of someone else, they will only look for the bad, rather than trying to understand and discuss the finer points of the post. If they can find nothing wrong, they just say, "you have a message of hate!" - and then just stomp off, hoping that the label sticks to the worldview of the poster. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

If that's all you see then you're walking around with a pretty sizeable set of blinders on. You seem to be determined to stick to that narrative no matter what though so I don't think there's any point explaining (again) why the xenophobes are xenophobic. ...but you're missing the moral of the whole story - that if people are gonna scare themselves shitless over some fictive that Trump and his supporters somehow represent a new age Nazi-like regime, then IMO, you pretty much lose the fucking right to call someone else out on their paranoia. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

GTAV: "scares the shit out of me" Wolfriverjoe: "it scares the living shit out of me" SkyDekker only said that it's "scary" - apparently he hasn't shit yet, so he still might be full of it. If you can take what I thought was a clearly hyperbolic statement that he scares the shit out of me (I mean, do you REALLY think I pooped myself over it?) and equate that to people who hate all Muslims and can be SEEN posting online about how they should be murdered, nuked, or killed, well... I really don't know how to respond. It is so unrelated as to be impossible to correlate in my mind. Well, if I compared you to xenophobes that actually want all Muslims murdered, nuked or killed, then you'd have a good reason to be all ruffled up - but I didn't, so you don't. For the most part, I don't really have a problem with you or what you've said. When you said that it scared the shit out of you, it reminded me of a couple other posters that where comparing Trump to Stalin and Mussolini - and how Trump and his supporters were paving the way for the next Hitler or some weasel worded bullshit like that. A more accurate comparison would be, Scared of a possibly destructive presidency vs scared of our vulnerability and the actual threat of terrorism in this country. I don't see anyone in this forum advocating the death of all muslims. What I do see however are people expressing concern for border security and how to handle the very real threat of terrorism - but they are dismissed as paranoid and told that they shouldn't be so concerned - that toddlers with guns are more of a threat than terrorism - it's ridiculous. But when those same dismissive people become concerned about a destructive presidency and start imagining all these awful things, THEIR fear all of a sudden becomes more valid than those with whom they disagree. There is nothing to convince me of. You seem like a fairly reasonable guy and I understand clearly that there are real concerns and legitimate arguments against a Trump presidency, however, going full-blown Godwin isn't one of them. It just irritates me when this nonsense gets so blown out of proportion, that the real pros and cons get drowned out amidst all the madness. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

GTAV: "scares the shit out of me" Wolfriverjoe: "it scares the living shit out of me" SkyDekker only said that it's "scary" - apparently he hasn't shit yet, so he still might be full of it. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Oh. I clearly misunderstood when GTAV said this: "scares the shit out of me" It IS pretty ambiguous. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

No, the people who are scared of all muslims because of Islamic extremists are called paranoid xenophobes. Fine, and those that are scared of Trump and all his supporters are paranoid bigots. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Ya, if you want to deliberately miss the point - which btw, you've been doing a lot lately. That's what you're saying. I was speaking to the hypocrisy of those that admittedly are scared shitless of Tump and/or his supporters, while calling others paranoid xenophobes when they express concern about being scared shitless of terrorism. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

If you're a christian, why pray to a saint when you can pray to God directly through Christ? Saints are just dead christians - they can't hear you. Praying to the dead is just another remnant of Roman paganism. Whatever helps you feel like you are a better Christian than others, I suppose. It's not about feeling better - as I said, my faith right now is about the weakest it's been it quite awhile. This is about defining Christianity. In the beginning Christianity was very simple, but now it's all convoluted. Scripture is hard enough to believe without having all this extra-biblical nonsense added to it over the years. If you want to pray to the dead rather than Christ, then perhaps it shouldn't be called Christianity - I don't know, just a suggestion. Some would say that those holidays were flat out hijackings of pagan culture, rather than "evolutions." But regardless, Christian holidays aren't a matter of doctrine as is praying to the dead in Catholicism. I have no problem treating the holidays just as any other day, but I don't want to be the party-pooper. Sometimes God blesses me with the flu and I can be left alone. Also, Interestingly enough - the majority of people I spent last Christmas with were atheists. I wrote about it here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4776361;search_string=in-laws;#4776361 Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

They changed that years ago from "non-lethal" to the more accurate "less lethal." I made some good coin shorting TASR back when it was coming to light that they could be lethal, and were being used in situations where they were not required/called for. Ok, but had I said "less lethal," it would've given the impression that I was referring to something less lethal than the OP's stun gun - and I wasn't talking about something less lethal than a OP's stun gun - I was talking about fucking lightning bolts. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Now if only we could blast non-lethal bolts of lightning from a distance. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

If you're a christian, why pray to a saint when you can pray to God directly through Christ? Saints are just dead christians - they can't hear you. Praying to the dead is just another remnant of Roman paganism. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I do. Why, just because wolfriverjoe said so? This is just another example of people seeing only what they want to see. People like to look for reasons to disagree with others rather than to try understanding what it is they're actually saying - it's more entertaining that way I suppose - much like this election. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

You do realize that Ron doesn't consider Catholics "real" Christians, right? When did he say that? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Damn, I didn't know Ron grew up in the 1860s? Maybe there's something to this everlasting life thing after all. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Matthew 4:5-7 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Scripture says they will be known by their fruit. Words are cheap - and deeds, in vain. . . Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

What does that mean? I know you don't really care, so I'll just use this as an opportunity to inject some mild humor. https://youtu.be/TnReAT6ZN9c?t=36 So yea - that's Black Jesus from Family Guy. You can also find Fat Jesus along with other politically incorrect humor (that's also not offensive - because we're not Muslim - or whingeing liberal poofs) at the Cavalcade of Cartoon Comedy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOI1IER-Eu4 Enjoy! Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour