ZigZagMarquis

Can you say Jeremy Well, there ya go, Bytch, Jeremy Mahoney (sp?) has two. MJO, did Jerm charge extra for the repack after that to pick all the cactus needles out of the gear first...

Damn kids!!! I was in High School in 1981! Anyway... I'll certainly defend older gear that still airworhthy... but a Bruise-Lite with a possible 5 Cell Swift... ummm... I think I'd give the guy a case of really good beer for it and then hang it up at the DZ as a conversation piece...

Bob Celaya out at the California City Skydive Center claims one. Its been a couple of years since I packed any pilot rigs for the glider geeks out there, but knowing pilots and how frequently they get their trash repacked, its probably still my pack-job they're sitting on. I'd like to know who packed the bailout rigs that Dick Rutan and his co-pilot used when they un-assed themselves from that balloon they were trying to go around the world in several years back. You still see the footage on Real TV and the like sometimes. As the story goes... it wasn't Dick's first jump, but I thought he would have known better to dump a pilot rig BEFORE terminal, but he probably quickly forgot the pain of that opening after the landing in a field full of cactus in high winds... reportedly, it was the other guy's first jump.

ADjunkie, I've got probably over 1000 jumps on original Sabre's and probably 600ish jumps on a Sabre2. Yes, the original Sabre can give you some pretty brutal openings sometimes. Like someone up-post said, get with your local rigger and contact PD to see if the orig Sabre you have has the proper sized slider for the size canopy... you may want to also take a look at the line trim depending on how many jumps the canopy has on it with respect to when it was re-lined last... or are the lines original?? What I found works for me on my original Sabre (yes, I still jump it sometimes, its in my back-up rig) is to make sure you qarter the slider well, roll the nose tightly, put the nose into the middle of the pack job, but DO NOT shove it to the tail, make sure the fwd quarter of the slider is out in front of the nose and not rolled in with it, roll the tail tight, make sure you don't loose control of the slider placement when you bag the canopy and tight line stows (I prefer rubber bands)... not really much of a trick to it, just good packing. ... ummm... and don't dump in a track or head-down unless its to avoid bouncing...

Because you are spineless and a coward.

BEER! ... and when you get back from buyin' that. Like a lot of folks have said up-post... "Yes" the RSL shackel can "pop" or "spring open" during a hard opening... I've had it happen to me... and make sure your RSL is routed correctly when hooked up... I've found RSLs mis-routed AROUND the reserve risers when asked to give a gear check... that can be deadly. Last but not least, like lots have said already, always complete your emergency procedures... remember an RSL, SkyHook or AAD is only a BACK-UP to the primary lifesaving device... YOU!

Well, Kent, I would have expected a response from an Instructor which err'ed on the side of Safety, but to each his own.

DITTO! ... what if a "marginal" rubber band or tube stow "survives" "just one more line stow", but breaks when you put the bag into the container? Now you've got a bunch of "loose" line just waiting to half hitch around something on deployment... ever think of that...

Black... with black binding tape... black pin-stripes... black stitching on the logo... and a black pilot chute with black hacky... for a bit of color, an orange cut-away pillow...

JR... what... you can't out-track a toilet!??! Anyway... having seen skydivers take all kinds of shit (pun intended) out of airplanes... and done so myself... ... I'd bet its a real toilet being AFFed by some really bored skydivers. I'm just wondering if they thought about the fact that after they got done laughing their asses off... that when one of them needed to take a crap... they may be SOL... seeing as how they probably got the crapper from the head at the DZ... Heck, once way back at my home DZ a bunch of bored skydiveres video'ed an instructor teaching First Jump Course to a large pumpkin... and then took it up for its first jump; with video. Sad to say things went horribly wrong... the student pumpkin's jumpmasters didn't choose nor adjust a properly fitting harness container for it and when they pulled for the student pumpkin at the bottom because the pumpkin was unresponsive to multiple "pull" signals... the dear departed pumpkin skydiver fell from the harness and... well...

Jan, Pretty much this exact scenario happended to me when I had around a couple of hundred jumps. I was the top person in your example. I got "wrapped" way-short final. The other jumper, the bottom person, was probably around 10 to 15 feet, I'd say no more, maybe less, off of the gound when his canopy wrapped me at about mid-back to shoulder level, up high enough on me that some of his canopy obscured my view, but not so high that it was into my risers or lines. Looking back on it, I'd like to think I had the presence of mind to realize that my canopy was still flying and that I ought not to do anything drastic... but things were happening really quick... I basically went to half breaks, feet & knees together, made a stab at a flare when I guessed it and did my impression of a PLF... wound up pretty much sliding it it. The bottom person kinda did the same, flared his canopy, but thumped in kinda hard, but in the end was okay and I flew out of his canopy as he landed and I did an instant later as described. It all happened so fast and was so close to the ground, that in it self may have been a bit of a good thing; i.e. not a lot of height to "drop", anyway, it happened so fast that it took a few seconds aferwards to really realize what just happened, at least for me. In those days, I was under a PD190 loaded just under 1:1. What would I do different now if in that happened? Well, if it all happened again as low as I described and I was again the top person, I doubt I'd do much different. If I was still the top person and it was up higher, say at or just below 100ft, I don't think I'd be enclined to start trying to grap the bottom person's canopy... I don't do CRW and I don'think trying to learn what to do as the person in a 2-Stack when at 100ft or less is the time to do it... kinda like trying to do rigging in freefall or under canopy. Anyway, I think going straight ahead would be advisable, maybe touch a bit of break if your the top person to try to get up out of the bottom person's canopy if you thought you had the altitude to spare? If I was the bottom person in this scenario... I'm not so sure I would know what to do. Again, I don't do CRW so I don't think I'd be enclined to ask the top person to hold me... ... I'll be interested to hear what might be good things to do if one found oneself on the bottom part of this scenario. I'd certainly get ready to do the best PLF I could pull of and I'd probably still "flare" with hopes I'd get some flare out of my canopy even if I were on the bottom. What was my take-away from what happened to me? Well, again looking back on it. I can remember while on approach, thinking, it looks like that guy is going to cut me off, but I'm the lower canopy, so I've got right of way. Well, he hooked it around and wound up lower then me and wrapping me as I've described. Well, my first take-away was to be more attentive of what's going on around me in the landing pattern and second, that lower canopy has right of way thing is all well and good, but you've got to look out for yourself first... ergo my tendancy to this day to just land out when the pattern or landing area is crowded or what not; i.e. I'm just fine with walking a little further to help others out by not adding myself to a crowded landing area and help myself out by not being there for someone else to hit. Oh, as far as fault... well in my story, I ate some shit from the then more experienced jumpers during the walk back to the hangar about watching where I was going more on landing... and there was probably some room for that input. Again, I was okay, the guy who wrapped me was okay, but more bruised and scraped up, but okay... so it kinda worked out to ba a no-blood no-foul situation. Which, to be honest with y'all I'm not big om pointing fingers, finding fault and assigning blame when it comes to the transient transgressions around the DZ as so long as folks are smart enough to realize it takes two to tango, willing to learn from stuff and not be so pig headed that they think they're always right and things are always someone else's fault.

Up-post... AFFI and CMan pertty much said it. I'm glad I got into the sport after you had to do an actual water jump. Now a-days its just wet-training with some old rig in a swimming pool. Some of the old grey hairs around the DZ still tell stoies about doing their "water jumps" under old T10s into the big pond at the Caliofornia City Colf Course... even so, I think the procedure there post landing was pretty much "Stand Up"... as the stories go, most of the water was only waist to chest deep. Anyway, I suppose one day the USPA will even drop the actual night jumps requirement for getting a D-License and all the newbies will have to do is go into a dark room with their rig on and still be able to find their handles...

Jmpr3... the "call RI" task was left to you... the student... to do... Anyway... I'm about 99% certain that the RSL set-up on the Flexon, Talon 94 and Talon 2 are pretty much all the same... as in... the reserve rip cord comes out of the hard cable housing (under the left shoulder tuck)... through the ring on the business end of the RSL... and continues between fabric comprising the #4 (top) reserve flap to the reserve closing loop... i.e. NO guide rings. Remember... there is an arguement out there in the rigging-verse that guide rings were necessary back in the days of Cones & Pins when using a RSL to "guide" things if the RSL actuated the reserve... you needed the reserve rip cord pins to be pulled along the axis of the cable and not perpendicular, which, if done, could bend the pin in the cone trapping it there. The arguement continues that today, with soft reserve closing loops (i.e. no more cones) that the guide rings for an RSL are not totally necessary anymore, but are still used on numerous rigs "because that's what's always been done & they don't seem to hurt." Anyway, I digress,... but that's just one arguement... take it with a grain if you disagree... * puts on flame suit *

Mike, I just heard this morning about Lou. Its a real bummer to say the least. Have you heard about any services or an ash dive??

Terry, if you have a .pdf of the Felxon manual, can I get it too please?

Wow! Has it been that long since I've been to Perris... ... yeah, guess its been either the Rumbleseat 2000 Boogie or when we did the Coral-Ways (Jump For the Cause 200?)... I need to get out more...

Bill, great post and thanks for the info and discussions that followed. I don't get to Perris very often and I'm not knockin' Perris mind you, but the more I hear when not there and see during the few times I am there, I'm surprised there are not more serious problems in the landing pattern there on the "grass". I pretty much make up my mind that I'm going to land "out" at Perris before I get on the plane... again, not knockin' Perris... just trying to be that "one" that avoids a collision... I've got 2 minor ones in my log book, don't want anymore! Anyway, if I'm remembering my directions correctly at Perris... do they still have the ditch (swoop pond) East (?) of the grass (opposite side of the grass from the runway -- towards 215)? Maybe if they filled that in, folks wouldn't feel so penned in when landing on the grass (i.e. penned in between the runway and ditch) and have a bit more of an "out" in that direction? Anyway, maybe they've already done this?? ... and don't they have a seperate swoop pond out somewhere else anyways?? Maybe it would help, maybe it wouldn't, maybe it would just encourage folks to land across the grass... which I thought was a "no - no"... isn't it North or South landings only on the grass / first person down sets the direction?? Anyway, I digress...

WP, How "dirty" is it? If its what I imagine... i.e. A week of someone jumping in the desert that's not used to the desert... no offense... its probably not a big deal. Can you post a picture? Yeah, I always wonder why people order "white" as part of their canopy color if they jump in the desert... saw a guy custom order a white stilletto once wth a custom U.S. flag on the bottom skin... in 6 months jumping it in the desert, it was no longer the Red, White and Blue... it was the Red, TAN and Blue...

Well... you used to be able to go here: http://www.parachuteriggers.com/ ... and get it for free, but now they want money... ... plus their website is under reconstruction... Anyway, why don't you call up Rigging Innovations and see if they'll email you one? Rigging Innovations, Inc. 4900 N. Tumbleweed Road, Bldg. 1, P.O. Box 86 Eloy, AZ 85231 Tel. 520.466.2655 FAX: 520.466.2656 http://www.rigginginnovations.com/ http://www.rigginginnovations.com/manuals.htm Either that, or I'll be someone will be along here that has it.

What? Rob, you don't keep a written list of the folks you hear such things from to compare with the "Incidents" forum here and in Parchutist??

I'm with bytch... wouldn't pay. Seen plenty of it for free.

... well, sorry I missed your point, my bad.

Comparing Led Zeppelin to America is not a "safe" thing to do BillV!

I usually say something like, "Have you ever seen the marginally maintained pieces of crap that we get into to jump out of? At least I got a parachute on! The head-work isn't jumping out of the piece of shit, the head-work is having gotten into it in the first place!!" Its not advisable to use that come-back when with-in ear shot of the airplane owner...

not directed at Ron, just generally speaking / using the word "you" in general terms... Remember, you ARE NOT, nor WILL YOU EVER be so good as to not possibly die in this sport. Do not let yourself or your friends ever think so.