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Everything posted by diverdriver
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Yah! Monkey's are number one!
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Yes, actually I do tend to do a crosswind jump run until the winds really pick up on the ground and it is necessary to run it more into the winds than across them. It's situational. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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6 degrees of seperation? Well, let's see.....I know Kallend, Chasingblueskies, Indyz, Dumpster, Kris, Skybytch, bbarnhouse, Sangiro, Sunshine, Vallerina, eeneR, Kevin922, Phreezone, SM1 (first birdman jump), Wingnut, ummmmm.....many many more.... edit: man how can I not list more.....Flyangel2, MissKriss, Mustard, Winsor, Qtnesassy, HeatherB, JCeman, dang I know I'm forgetting too many.... I am all too frightenly real.... Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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OK, but do you calculate them to locate the geographical refrence point , ie: the "spot" on the map/ground where the first jumper(s) should exit the A/C? This in turn means you as a pilot must fly over said geographical reference point or "spot" and the jumper can make any corrections left /right and then he exits when he is exactly over said "spot". That is true spotting. Yes, that is what I'm talking about. THE SPOT. But it isn't just one spot that civilians use. We have to draw a spotting LINE. And in my case, a spotting arc. So, it's much more than just one geographical point you have in civilian spotting. I guess that's why some of the PJ's had me flying them in Monterey Years ago and the CO went off on a Herc crew that put them off their target. Saying how this civilian pilot with just a handheld was able to put them on THE SPOT every time. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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The other side of this coin is that the guys in the front now feel they have the right to start bitching when the light comes on. The green light just means the pilot is ok w/ jumpers exiting at their decision. Case in point: At SDC this past summer on a windy day ground winds were 15-20kts from the north and they only got stronger at 3k/ 6k/ etc. The pilot (Not Chris
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But I see complete strangers offering a couch here on DZ.com all the time. So, what's the difference? Where's the skydiver love?
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True statement. However, the fact of the matter is that unless you calculate the winds at altitude using the formula you won't know where the actual "spot" on the ground is. What skydivers/pilots pretty much do across the board is fly over the DZ into the wind on jump run(cross wind if applicable) and guesstimate on how far from the peas the first group needs to leave. Not an exact science IMO. The second point is, unless the pilot is using a GPS he will not know where 5/10ths past the peas is unless he is able to look down at the ground and is familiar enough with the area to make that determination. More importantly, the average skydiver looking out the door of the A/C has no knowledge of what the winds aloft are or where 5/10ths after might be. So basically what you have is a skydiver who looks out the door to orient himself to where the DZ is, look for other A/C if he is heads up and then jumps when the green light comes on. That is called orienting oneself to the DZ not spotting. As far as I know the only ones teaching TRUE spotting is the Military. Well, when I train a new pilot to spot an otter we do happen to go over winds aloft, drift, canopy types, penetration, geography, obstacles. So, I guess the Military is not the only one teaching spotting. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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hey Chris, can you give an example of a plane where a turn would be a problem like this? King Air, Caravan. But, they do not carry as many jumpers as an Otter so the jumrun should not be as strung out as an Otters. Soooo...... shouldn't be any problem to get everyone out on one pass right?
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They didn't call them a "radar range" for nothing.
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Oh what do you know? You're just a girl!
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Uhhhh......yah.. Happy Birth Day SunnyDeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Chris is right. As much as I'd like to always fly a perfect jumprun you do have the responsibility for looking down. Make sure what you are doing is done correctly but if you want a correction just signal for one. It's tough some times to see from the front of the Otter in the rear view mirrow so make sure you are making clear hand signals that aren't flashing by too fast. Rember, we could be looking at where the plane is going and not back you all the time. Also, when I fly I do hook pattern jumpruns. I will fly it so that during the turn it is still ok to exit. This freaks some people out. It is also taught at some DZs that if the plane is banking not to exit. This is good advice on some jumps planes as it could put you in close proximity to the tail. If the picture you are looking at doesn't look right ask someone if you can. If you can't and you don't wanna go then sit down, ride down, and we can talk about it. Given some circumstances I've known DZs to not charge you for the ride because you were acting in your best interest of safety. And when I call on the radio to manifest to tell them what happened they are usually pretty accomodating. Depends though. All you waisted was your time and at least you don't have to pack! We all hate packing! Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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Indeed. The original intent has been lost completely and I have gained very little insight into what people think about the topic. Pity. Oh stop....thread creep happens all the time.
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Damn...I hate it when the humor goes over my head. Sorry dude. ...and with that....I'm spent.....
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Tom, as usual, I agree with everything you said. Yes, bad spot is a factor in some fatalities. It is not the cause. As we look at causes in NTSB reporting we know that usually the last link in that chain is going to be listed as the "proximate" cause. I know...we are now arguing semantics. I think the point has gotten across though. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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According to BillVon's rules of canopy sizing it is your own fault because you are supposed to be able to land on a incline....slope...quarter brake turns...etc.... Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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Actually no. I wasn't refering to it. I was commenting on the first post in this thread I believe. Yes, it might be a factor. Factors should be looked at. But the cause of the fatality.....I still believe can never be a bad spot. Only lack of preperation and execution. We train to get out of gear in water. If you can't do it then don't jump near water. Also, if you know you might go in the water (exiting over water) you MUST have flotaion gear. Then there are the others. "He was trying to get back from a bad spot that caused him to turn low and hit the ground." When they use the word "cause" it's a powerful statement. It had better be THE cause if they are going to use it. Actually, the jumper hit the ground because they pulled on one toggle and didn't let it up in time to get wings level before impact. This wasn't the original intent of this thread but it has been a good debate. I've stated what I think. Others have stated what they think. The lurkers can take away what they want. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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I've been out in those grape vines. I know of what you speak. Yah, narly stuff. I've been over rivers, forests, bonfires, dust devils, corn, beans, etc..... I still had a plan on where I was landing safe. Yep, and I've been on 300 way attempts as a jumper who pulled...umm....just above 2k too...yah...just above 2k. Right over the corn fields with one strip of grass that many seemed to be shooting for. Head on swivel, weighing options....making my approach. All mine. Not the spots fault. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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I think that one thing people get intimidated by is that we do have really well known jumpers at SDC. They all have (as I once did too!) that idea that they are "messing" up a dive if it doesn't go right with someone more experienced than you. I can tell you that it is ALL a learning experience and that we really do love jumping with less experienced people because then you become MORE experienced and can pass on to others what you know. You DON'T have to prove anything to us if you jump with us. You only have to be safe, have fun, and see what you can accomplish in your own way. You might be surprised. I know I was intimidated when I first got to SDC in 1997. You know.....you all have to get that out of your heads. There are plenty of people there wanting and willing to jump with anyone else. Oh yah...and we have bonfires too! And man.....Tim's cooking....that seared Salmon? Uhhhhh....to die for! And his skirt stake is great too! Damn...I just made myself hungry. Must go eat now. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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Having been a jumper on the 2000 attempts at SDC and seeing that many jumpers in freefall I most certainly do believe this is possible. Even though we did not complete our goal I knew it could be done. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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Or a jumpship pilot who has enough jumps and time in the sport to know that it is a cop out to blame the spot for the incident. Personal responsibility for your own skydive remember? See above for the other reasons why this is a cop out. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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Flotation gear? Lack of preperation? Proper procedures for getting out of gear when landing in water? B License training? Sound familiar. No, I will not accept that a bad spot ever killed or hurt a jumper as the cause. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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NO landing injury was EVER caused by a bad spot. A landing injury happens when jumpers fail to utilize all the area around them for landing. It really grates my goat whenever I see someone post landing injuries were the result of a bad spot. BS. I know this is a hypothetical you are discussing here. I just thought I'd bring that point up now. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125
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It means you, Q-Bert. Max Hedron, hairspray and Miami Vice are good buddies. Eh hem....that's Max Headroom.