diverdriver

Yep, docking third to last just under some of the lettering. He docked on my right leg. I was in the base. Yes, I put extra lead on to be there. What the video doesn't show is the last point we were to build was an arrow head with Roger at the front. Franky and I had said that when we went to break off we would pull Roger and use him for leverage to start our tracks. [Frank was on Roger's gold medal 10-way team]. When it came time to dock on Roger and start the arrow head he did some kind of Judo move and grabbed our hands with just his finger tips before we could grab his. LOL....we never got a grip on him where we could hose him. Bwahahahahha......man he was a whascilly rabbit. Of course he knew it was coming cuz Frank and I couldn't contain ourselves in the dirt dive and where practicing the hosing from the get go. LOL.....

Uh folks, I was already contacted by the press to use my Spread the Love post for their article. They are hawking around everywhere. I declined their use even though they said they would run it in its entirety. I still declined. I wrote it for me and for our community. The whuffos will think what they want no matter what I say. They always have twisted our words and they always will. I am not surprised Steve's dad is mad. He wants to blame someone and can't believe his son could do anything wrong. However, the fact of the matter is Steve caused the collision that killed Deb and him. So, don't let a grieving father's words get you all riled up. Just feel compassion for him for no matter what happened he still lost his son. And that's got to hurt. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Nobody owns sorrow. We all feel it and are entitled to it. If you feel sorrow for Roger's passing then you go right ahead and don't minimize your own feelings. They are important too.

Yep, lots of hugs going around.

From Missy and the SDC website: [HR]Memorial Service Memorial Service for Roger Nelson Monday, June 16th, 2003 Memorial Jump at 12:00 p.m. Services at 1:00 p.m. (Outside if weather permits) Everyone is invited to attend and stay as long as you wish. Your prayers are greatly appreciated. And business has resumed. God Bless! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Missy Nelson Event Coordinator/Competitor Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Blue skies Paul. I know a DZO who needs some LOs up there for coaching.

Maura, I don't believe Marc meant any disrespect. Remember we can't hear voice inflection while reading these forums. Since I know Marc I can hear him saying it matter of factly rather than hostily. I am going to ask that the Moderators move this thread to Talk Back and delete mine, your, and Marc's post. There are a lot of newbies on here just because of this Incident and I don't want anyone getting upset at anyone else. We're all pretty on edge about all this as it is. Respectfully, Chris

Ok, I'm indulging myself in making a new thread for Roger Nelson rather than posting on the other condolences thread. Sorry if that offends anyone. It has taken me these 2 days to try and put my thoughts completely together about what has happened. I've made small comments here and there but it's still really easy to start crying again about this. I imagine this will take most of this morning to compose. "We lost Dale today." Renee and I were both thinking this morning about the same thing. How do we describe what we've lost in terms that others can understand. Well, the loss of Dale Earnhardt is about as close an analogy as you could have. Thanks Renee for putting into words what I was struggling to find. I had just landed from flying a load and was fueling. After fueling I started to move out and Renee (riding right seat) looked over her shoulder and said that someone was injured in the landing area. We immediately saw Roger's canopy colors. I prayed someone had borrowed his gear. I dealt with what I had to at the time and park the aircraft safely in the middle of the ramp so the other otter could get around. Control lock and prop ties. We started walking to the landing area and I told Renee she may not want to walk over and see this. I saw Woody and another doing CPR on the person on the ground and then I noticed another injured jumper near by. Oh God no! Not another canopy collision. Please God, let it be someone else borrowing Roger's gear or just similar canopy colors. Then we saw as we approached. Rook and Missy kneeled by and then I saw him. They worked on him so professionally. No hysterics. 1,2,3,4,5....breathe. 1,2,3,4,5...breathe. Check. After a couple of minutes he breathed on his own. But it was very labored. I've seen this before. I knew it was incredibly bad. I won't go into anymore detail as that is not appropriate here. We all know what we saw. It will forever be burned in my brain. And as I told Andrea in a PM, if this had to happen I'm actually ok with having seen it. It made it more real. For me, it helps bring it to close rather than just "poof" they're gone. We stopped operations as soon as we could to try and regroup. Lifeflight was told to launch to meet them at the local hospital. I did not check the other jumper myself but asked someone who had just been over there how he was since it was obvious the main focus was on Roger. The person said "He'll be ok. Just ankles and legs." The ambulances arrived and took them away. Now what. We know he's critical. And I know he would want his operation to continue and get the first time tandems up with any fun jumpers that wanted to go. We checked with the tandem masters to make sure they were ok with going up and that they were able to focus on the task at hand. This would be a major distraction to all of us if we were to continue operations. After a pause to get emergency procedures going we looked at starting back up. The otter was put on a 20 minute call and as far as I know no student backed out of going up. The staff handled this situation like true professionals and I thank them. After getting all the important phones calls done that I could think of I ended up flying another load with Max's group. After that, I was glad to be done and went back to seeing if there was anything I could help coordinate at the operation. Everyone had everything handled. Roger's done well in hiring people who know their job and are self starters. We went and got some food and found some "Baglanders" to hang out with. The Baglanders are the original group to be very close knit at Roger's operation at Sandwich in the 80s. It was good to sit some elders. We could talk, and hope. Talk about other bad injuries we'd seen before where the person came back. We got news that Roger had blood pressure coming back and that he was arguing with the medical staff. We all laughed figuring "Yah, that's Roger. That's a good sign." But as quickly as our hopes began to rise we got the news about 6pm. "He didn't make it." Oh Roger. How could you be taken out like this? I figure it's the only way you could. You never saw it coming. And as Chuck Yaeger once said "I ran out of altitude, options, and ideas all at the same time." I sorry Roger you didn't have an ejection seat. But now that you've said that I know you are grinning at me and saying "But I did. Jesus is my ejection seat." Roger's faith was strong. It had to be. He's had what seems to be imaginable hard times trying to achieve his dreams of building an awesome facility for people to gather. Oh yah, and we skydive too. Roger new all about skydiving, but he knew the community was why we kept coming back. Slowfaller saw that in him. We all knew it. The rest of the night was spent hugging each other. Every time you turned around there was another wet face to try and dry with a shirt sleeve and we all asked why, how. We made all the phone calls we could to let friends know what happened. Many drove right away to the DZ to be with us. People whom I haven't seen in years were there in minutes. The bond is strong. We drank many a toast in his name. We all love him.

Chris, he knew. That's the way he lived his life. To inspire people. To cause change. And you'd be amazed of the stories where he would remember people and jumps years after the fact when the person was sure he'd never remember. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

You are exactly correct Jim.

When flying jumpers I wore ear plugs under my Dave Clark's with gel seals (sp?). 37 loads in one day was my record. Never had a problem with 6,000 fpm descents. I've jumped with the same ear plugs. No problems for me. But to be honest I don't know if there could be a potential problem. Good question. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

You're right. It's hearsay. But the way you posted it you certainly made it sound as fact with your "what the paper didn't tell you is..." statement. Pretty inflamatory isn't it? No, the prop isn't silent. You can hear a winding down sound as the T-wheels wind down. Plus there's that whole "whooshing" sound as each blade goes by. And since it is winding down you can actually see each blade as it goes by instead of the "invisible" arc it normally makes. I'm not saying if anyone was right or wrong. I'm just stating the facts as I know them. The guy exited from the main door in the rear. He went forward and was struck by the prop. I saw him laying on the ground on the left side of the aircraft as the emergency crews worked on him. This was all from a distance of about 200 yards. Chris Schindler edited to add: And I just re-read your original post where you claim the guy got out the right door and no where does it state that you weren't there and were going on hearsay. Only in a later post do you state that.

Rent the DVD set of Band of Brothers and you will get a chilling perspective of what extra-ordinary things common men can do. We will never forget their sacrifice. Thanks to all who answered the call to help our fellow man against evil and tyrany. 59 years ago today. God Bless them all. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Michele, you are supposed to get that training in your AFF / SL / IAD student training. If you don't then ask for your money back because they screwed you. (Not really you Michele. Just anyone who doesn't get that training in their course.) I think this is the biggest failing of the current instructional program as a whole in the US. They are not teaching what is needed to survive on canopies after student status. People are spending money on canopy classes that teach what should have already been covered. People are getting ripped off these days. Not by the canopy schools. They do exactly what they advertise. I'm talking about any program that does not give the basics of canopy control. The only instruction that some seem to give is on the radio "Left, left, left, left, hands up let if fly........flair". Well that doesn't cut it anymore in the modern world. Hense, our current dillema. The problem becomes evident when people try to downsize and have no one on one instruction on how to do it. So, they go with what they think they know and what they think they've seen. Then they pound in or get killed. So is the wingloading BSR a bandaid to a broken instructional program? I think that is part of it. But then again, I also have support for it. This debate will go on and on for a long time. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Andyman, you are completely wrong about the events in this incident. He did not exit through the right door. You said yourself you were not there so how is it that you think he exited the right door? The fact is he went to the back of the plane and got out the main door while the aircraft was being fueled. That's all I have to say about that but there's a big difference between your story (I don't know where you got that from) and the real facts of the incident. Silently still spinning? Give me a break. Those PT-6s are damn loud. And even if you are deaf you can feel the vibration of their operation. Oh, and that little blast of moving air might give you a clue that it exists. The rest of the story will have to be played out in court. I'm sure the Ottawa Times will have continued indepth coverage. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

That's intentional smoke from an Eloy otter. Johnny LongSpot was flying that plane. He kinda failed to inform us that he was gonna do that and more than a few jumpers were like "Wow, he's toasting the engine to stay in the formation so we could get an attempt off." Then we learned that it was intentional later. Looked pretty cool from the ground though. Lets the ground observers get an eye on the formation. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Thanks. I flew on the 1998 record. On the 2000 attempts I was a jumper. Our two blue whacker section built every time. But alas, we did not have much to dock on. There was always something missing. There are pictures of our group set up and waiting. But I won't bore you with those. The exit shot says it all. Man, that was a fun thing to do. Chris

LOL.....wondering if you would notice that pink change. Bwahahhahahahah. Vertical? I got your vertical. Be 2nd to last diver out of the lead Casa in a 300-way attempt. That puts you farthest and highest away from DaBase. And who had that slot? Me. Who exited last? Rook. I rest my case. Bamm! edited to add: Here's the PIC. I'm in the blue and the white suite jumper just ahead of me is Jerry Byrd. Rook Nelson took the pic.

Ask Johny C whether he should have been grandfathered in to do a fat hook after a layoff and having gained some weight more than he had when he was really current. Having a guide sheet to go by makes it fairly easy for a manifest to say "You need to go talk to an instructor about this." S&TAs can't be everywhere all the time but everyone has to go through manifest. Chris Schindler

You know the sign that says we card anyone that looks to be under 30 for alchohol? I think that works pretty good in most cases. So the others that say education is the only thing we should focus on would think that just educating 16 year olds that alchohol is bad and you shouldn't drink and drive is all we should do? We shouldn't have a 18 year limit for smokes and 21 year limit for alchohol? Well, I happen to think those are good things in our society. Graduated priveledge is part of our society and I don't see it applying here as a bad thing. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

DJan, what it will take is people standing up and saying this is the line. This far. No farther. Not for now. Why in the world did we ever come up with licenses in the first place? Why not just an A license? Ahhhh!!! Because people realised that there needed to be graduated progression. And USPA has done fine following that program to this point. Some now think those jump numbers per license need to be increased. This can't be static. They have to evolve. But just saying USPA can't get anything done so don't go that way is a bad thing in my view. That's why we elected you people. Make it happen. The ISP was a good idea but it got watered down in my opinion. It didn't need to. And I think that's why so many don't accept it. AFF wasn't enough. So others developed programs to fill in the gaps. The ISP was supposed to flesh out our old programs into a modern program. But too many old timers stuck their fingers in it. Times change. Life is not static. USPA has to act to keep up and by listening to what the membership wants is how they can stay in a leadership role. Otherwise it will be deemed irrelivant. If people couldn't handle regulation then we wouldn't have any instructor ratings, or JM ratings, or IE ratings, or tandem ratings with [gasp] a probationary period. Our current system shows that we can tollerate graduated progression in our skydiving careers. This is NOT that far of a stretch. Setting the wingloading progression points will be the hard debate in my opinion. And then again, it could get so watered down that USPA will not have a leadership role at all. I hope they will act and address this issue in real terms and not the lip service I've seen in the past few years. Chris Schindler

Here's a thought. Why don't we raise children to educate themselves before doing something? And why do we have a society that thinks that anything sold over the counter must be ok to take as much of as you want. Why don't we have a BSR against wingloadings.......oh dang...wrong forum and thread.

Bwhahahahahha.....now that would be cool.....All flown by the auto-pilot.

It'd be a great plane if they took it out of the box it came in. LOL.