diverdriver

I peeked in there a bit and claimed that there was a problem with the number of jump plane accidents. Someone said I had no proof or list of jump plane accidents. Whoever that was THANK YOU! I think my list is pretty long now. 100s of hours looking but I think it's fairly complete. So it wasn't a complete waste of time on the wreck. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Sure, a wing seperation in flight is one thing. All the plane has for lift is the other wing so it rolls rapidly because there is nothing opposing it on the other side of CG. But it sounds like there were plenty of eyewitnesses so a wing seperation is unlikely. Flew through a dust devil? I dunno. You guys were there. Hard rudder input? I feel like I'm in incidents forum so maybe not the best for this thread. Sad that this pilot died even if many years ago. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Did he normally not wear a seat belt? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I completely understand.

Well, I'm not a Quantum Leap person but I did jump from that plane a couple of times and met the DZOs. However, I have lost several friends and acquaintances over the years in jump plane crashes specifically. It hurts because it is such a huge, rare event. Large turbines can take out alot of people all at once. But do you linger with thoughts about skydiving fatalities? Maybe this is different because it was in the national spotlight for the time that it was. There has been an emphasis put on this event in your life. I know what it's like. It still hurts to think about my friends who died in a Cessna 206 crash in 1998. Almost 10 years ago. And it still pangs at me. But the thoughts of it do not rule my mind every day. But it still comes to mind often, especially when I write about jump planes here and elsewhere. So I never really get away from it. For me, talking about jump plane safety is the only way for me to deal with my grief over that tragedy. I think you need to think about what you can do to take control of this situation for yourself. I can't tell you what to do. But you will find something to do that will replace the helpless feeling about the situation with something that you feel is productive. And you may not have that answer this week or next. But in time, something will come about. Talk about your friends and how they lived their lives. Remember them as something that was positive in your life and enriched your life. They obviously were or you would not have such hurt feelings about this. So honor them by keeping their memory alive. I visited the memorial for the 1992 twin otter crash at Perris. Several trees were planted in their memory with plaques of their names. A living monument to their existence. An effort of rememberance by those that knew them while they walked the earth. You cannot change the event of this but you can certainly shape how things will be remembered. When you pass, you would want those that knew you to have felt enriched by knowing you. Do that for your friends here. I remember those on N506SD and how each one impacted my life. Many moments of interaction that I carry forever. They are remembered by my actions now and in the future. -- for Dave, Ken, Eric, John and Marion. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Thanks!

bump....

Or if anyone knows Martin and can pass on that I'm looking for him to contact me can you direct him to this post? Thank you. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Tonto, Damn man this sucks. Your impact on the sport will be felt for a generation or more. You did it right man. You passed on what you could when you could to make things better around you. BSBD.

Already beat you to it. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=11376; From '03. YAH BOYYYYYY!!!

"Too black. Too strong."

And here I thought it was a thread about PUBLIC ENEMY! Flavo Flav yah! BRING DA NOISE!!

As a regional FO you have someone watching over you at all times. I've flown with guys with 500 total time and it can be rough and some times it can be a good time. A lot depends on the attitude of the pilot and their willingness to learn. As a jump pilot you are alone once they "turn you loose". Your integrity will determine if you will follow the rules or not. And history shows that often people do not act with the highest integrity. Totally preventable accidents happen over and over in skydiving jump planes. So it has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with this industry lacking the ability to recognize the problem and address training issues. So, the insurance company isn't in the business of training. It's in the business of assessing financial risk and this industry fails to do anything about it. They just blame the big bad mean insurance companies for requiring high time (I don't view 1,000 hours total time as "high"). Personally, I flew jumpers at about 500 total (started) and did that for about 700 hours before I got into a twin otter. Had 1,400 total and 100 multi-engine. Times were different then. So if you want get a job with a regional, get the ME time then quit to come back to flying jumpers. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Hey Zing, is that Lady Luck in the End of the Rainbow Pic? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

At PHL go-arounds are very common. They try to land aircarft on runway 35 in between arrivals on 27R. I have never done as many go-arounds as I have at PHL. That includes my time flying skydivers. And both runways are landing part 121 flights. We do S-turns all the time for spacing and sometimes in the end we still have to go-around. Makes life interesting. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

The FAA years ago adopted the term "near midair" to describe situations of aircraft in dangerous proximity. It seems fairly accurate. NEMAC = NEar MidAir Collision Near Miss = they came NEAR but MISSed. Abreaviated: Near Miss Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

And the fuel contamination from water (regular rain water) in those 55 gallon drums that were pumped into the aircraft were just "background noise" in the investigation?

IIRC, diverdriver (Chris Schindler) maintains that jump aircraft crash at about twice the frequency of General Aviation aircraft. Not sure as to causes - hopefully he'll pop in here and enlighten us as to his thinking. I've been working on a spread sheet and graphs periodicly for just such a comparrison. It's not done yet (to where I want to post it) but I hope to have it updated and posted by the end of this year. Statistics can be cut in many ways. I feel I have tried to compare things apples to apples. I do believe we have accidents at twice the General Aviation accident rate (12.0/100,000 hours flown vs 6/100,000 hours flown). This discussion has been done many times before and I don't have the time (at the moment) to search it out. Give me a little time and I'll see if I can find the post here on DZ.com. Suffice it to say we repeat much the same accidents over and over. The accident data base can be found here: http://www.diverdriver.com/Accidents/accidents.htm Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

If you look at the accident reports for jump planes it's usually NOT the plane that breaks. It's how it was run by the pilot/operator. Lots of running out of gas. Lots of no carb heat usage. Then there is the mishandled engine failure on twin engine aircraft. You can look at the list and see for yourself here: http://www.diverdriver.com/Accidents/accidents.htm Contaminated gas, trim set improperly for takeoff, flight into inclement whether or conditions beyond the pilot's training.... Not many where the plane broke without help from the pilot. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Sadly, there is simply no way to stop aircraft accidents from ever happening. It's the nature of flight. Anyone in the aviation business has to come to grips with that as a fact. That's not to say we can't try to minimize them, but you have to resign yourself to knowing that they are a possibility at all times. Just like in skydiving, you can do everything right and still die. But Quade, we crash them at a rate much higher than general aviation. You've seen my posts about this. If people throw up their hands and say "oh well, shit happens, planes just crash so accept it" then nothing will change and I know that's not what you want. Gear manufacturers study fatalities and change how they make gear to make it safer. Why is this industry not studying accidents and trying to make it better as a whole. Everyone is staring into the sky like outfielders in baseball and the ball is hitting the ground inbetween them all the time. Accident after preventable jump plane accident. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Martin, the best friend to skydiving that most skydivers will never know about. Martin helped build Skydiving Chicago by donating use of heavy construction equipment to build the fantastic facility that people enjoy today. He was not a skydiver (don't know if he ever made a jump) but he was an avid pilot who hangared his plane at SDC. He was a delight to know and always positive even when diagnosed with cancer years ago. He fought long and hard but it finally took him. Martin you will be missed and we all owe you thanks. Fly West Martin. We'll meet up later. CAVU. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I've been one of those floaters. Fortunately for me I am in good fit condition and had built up a tollerance flying jumpers unpressurized so much to 14,000. Others might have a more difficult time. However, for someone to just throw out TUC as 30 seconds at 17k with nothing backing up is well...not right either. So instead of 20 minutes at 18k it's 30 seconds? I doubt it's that dramatic unless the person is in less than well health. Remember it's not feeling the effects of hypoxia but useful contiousness we're talking about. What type of impairment did those floaters you mentioned suffer from? What happened? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

From Wikepedia but it's what I also remember from my Flight Physiology class. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_Useful_Consciousness Time of Useful Consciousness (TUC): Altitude in Flight level Time of Useful Consciousness Altitude in meters Altitude in feet FL 180 20 to 30 Min 5,486 m 18,000 FL 220 10 Min 6,706 m 22,000 FL 250 3 to 5 Min 7,620 m 25,000 FL 280 2.5 to 3 Min 8,534 m 28,000 FL 300 1 to 2 Min 9,144 m 30,000 FL 350 0.5 to 1 Min 10,668 m 35,000 FL 400 15 to 20 Sec 12,192 m 40,000 FL 430 9 to 12 Sec 13,106 m 43,000 FL 500 and above 9 to 12 Sec 15,240 m 50,000 FL = Flight Level. ie FL 180 approximately 18,000 ft above mean sea level. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Why is it hard to believe the picture? I've seen photos just like it over the years. People don't always die in crashes and the planes don't always stay intact. I've seen race cars completely disintegrate around a driver yet the driver survives. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

If I remember correctly she received an Emmy for her coverage of the 1998 Large Formation 246-way Record.