skycop

You, me, and every other poster here has no idea what happened. The eyes of the world are on this Grand Jury, they will take their time and hopefully make the right choice. The thing for certain is, there are going to be very unhappy people regardless of what is decided. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

As I've said before, Radley Balko is not an objective source of information. Because video of writing reports, driving around, dealing with drunks, writing tickets etc. is great for recruitment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GNp-ZB9Qmo I hate to break it to you Mr. Balko, but Community Policing is alive and well, I've been doing it for almost 30yrs, and EVERY department I work with does it as well. This is the equivalent of Mr. Balko opining on race relations by starting out "I have a black friend and.........." I will say as policing has increased pay and educational requirements, some younger officers do not live in the areas they police, especially urban areas. Many officers work in the city but live in the 'burbs. Many do work, live, shop, in the communities. Cops are some of the most engaged people in their communities, they are coaches, youth pastors, mentors, scout leaders, and the list goes on. These issues come down to leadership, is the leadership encouraging and rewarding community involvement, if not, they should be. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Thank you, That is why I posted here and in other threads. All I do is provide information so people can make an informed decision. I understand people being uneasy, mission creep is a concern. But in this case an MRAP actually makes sense, but it does give a sad commentary on our society. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

I agree, the entire thing is lunacy by definition. However it is a reality, the school district has it's own police department, they are most familiar with the lay outs of the buildings, and they (most likely) will be the first to respond. Most proactive districts have changed to an active response to a school shooter, whether it's ALICE; Run Hide, Fight or something else. What the administration and staff does before the police get there often decides how many casualties there will be. Responding outside agencies would be more than happy to have an MRAP close and available, it is nothing more than a large rolling ballistic shield. Google Beslan Russia, if you don't think something like that can happen here, you are sadly mistaken. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

I agree, but it's a sad reality "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

The vehicle would be used for rescue and I would assume be kept at a centralized location for fast response to a given location within the district. Current active shooter protocols call for immediate entry to isolate and neutralize the shooter by the first responding LEO's, and that means any LEO's. These normally aren't security guards, they are fully trained and certified officers, many are recently retired or younger guys trying to get their foot in the door. The waiting for SWAT days are over, tactics have changed dramatically. The average school shooting is over in 9-14 minutes. My assumption would be the vehicle would be used for rescue in the event of a barricaded suspect or mobile active shooter scenario. Look at it this way, YOUR kid is trapped inside a school during a critical incident, you would want the police to have every tool available to respond. As far a crewing and maintenance goes, it is very minimal. Agencies basically drive them until they break, then turn them in. Most are in excellent condition, they just need to be driven occasionally. Driving one is not that hard and takes minimal training for what it's going to be used for. Essentially it would be "active shooter, oh shit, go get the MRAP". It would be used in conjunction with other agencies tactical teams in the event of a protracted event. The thing would just sit 99% of the time, it's just there in case it's needed. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Yes they are http://www.sandi.net/policeservices Many large and some smaller school districts have their own law enforcement branches. The main reason being the district controls the branch as far as hiring, training, leadership etc. Large school districts are like small municipalities in structure and organization. It is a sad commentary on our modern society that the district has an armored vehicle, but it makes sense from a tactical/planning/cost standpoint. Look up Columbine and several other school shootings, these "kids" develop sophisticated tactical plans complete with IED's, diversions, secondary devices. Another sad, but effective response tool is the ALICE response to an active shooter. Google it, it's eye opening and scary, but IMHO the most effective school response to the active shooter. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Hot off the press....... http://uniformstories.com/stories/police/the-truth-about-america-s-militarized-police-program Same guy I quoted in the first post here. The things we are working on getting from the 1033/LESO: 3 small off the shelf hand held Honda generators 2 packs of tourniquets (for our first aid kits) Some "Flyers Kit Bags", for those who have never used one, they are great for carrying about anything, and would make great trunk organizers. A couple spare HMMWV windows, for bench stock A hand held thermal imager, one we could never afford and has numerous applications for police and fire/rescue. 2 ATV's That is the meat of the program, 95% of the gear is non-weapon or tactical vehicle related. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Thank you Captain Obvious.......... I love that statement itself, people who make that statement have neither the temperament or the fortitude to do this job. Many assumptions people make about LEO's just aren't true, I hear them everyday. I knew fully what I was getting into, but that doesn't mean I have to be at a disadvantage, just for the sake of being at a disadvantage. I carried a PR-24 baton for over 20yrs, I used it twice. Guess how many speeding tickets I've written.....................wait for it..............zero, zip, none, zerouski. I worked in the inner-city the vast majority of my career, I've made HUNDREDS, probably well over a thousand (I don't keep track) physical arrests. Not traffic, criminal stuff ranging from alcohol intoxication to murder. I've been punched, kicked, spit-on, suffered broken bones, dislocations, cuts bruises. I've also had people try to take my gun during a fight, been shot at, and one guy tried to ambush us/me after he killed his family. I don't want sympathy, I started this thread to see what people thought. I'm only one guy who worked in a medium sized PD. There are hundreds of thousands of guys just like me. Guys who want to do a good job, obey the rules, and go home. I know I'm not going to win some of you over, never expected to. I've tried to provide information to help make an informed decision. If you just sit back and bitch you are part of the problem, not the solution. Now, I'm gonna sit back and watch the flames........... "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

This is satirical, but most of it rings true.......:) FASCINATION STAGE - 1st thru 4th year of Law Enforcement. For most officers, this is their first time outside of the middle class bubble. They have never seen a dead body, never seen life-threatening injuries, never dealt with a family disturbance, never witnessed the squaller some people call "living life", and never really understood the phrase "Man's Inhumanity To Man" until now. Everything is new to them. You can ID them by the amount of fancy new equipment they carry...a ten BILLION candlelight power flashlight, "state-of-the-art" holster, pens that write in the rain, a ballistic vest rated to stop Tomahawk missiles, and an equipment bag large enough to house a squad of Marines. They love it, showing up early for their shift. They work way past the end of their shift without even considering an OT slip. They believe rank within the department is based only on ability and those in the upper ranks got there by knowledge and skill in police work only. They believe the Department runs with the same attention to detail and efficiency as Joe Friday's Dragnet TV show....everyone is dedicated & committed, everyone is competent, everyone is on the same page and working towards the same high-minded goals. When they finally go home to their spouse/ significant other, they tell them everything they did and saw; they are wired up. Some of the more "eaten up" purchase a police scanner at Radio Shack so they can hear the radio calls while at home. HOSTILITY STAGE - 4th thru 6th year They now show up for work about 2 minutes before their shift, and they are hiding out about 30 minutes before end of shift, writing reports so they can just throw them in the sergeant's in-box and leave ASAP. They have to get to their second job to earn money to pay for the divorce that is pending. Their spouse is no longer interested in hearing about all the gore and heartache. They get the "you spend more time with the cops than you do with me" speech. They now know how the lieutenant got those silver bars on his collar. They consider the FOP, the city, and all brass to be as dangerous as any viper. They gripe about everything, drink excessively, chase women, and hate the public, politicians, media, etc. They feel they have more in common with the hookers, thieves, dopers, etc.. but hate them too. Those pens that write in the rain are no longer needed. Writing traffic citations can be a lot more trouble than they are worth, even on a nice day To write one, or to write anything while standing in the rain, is a sure sign of an insane person. SUPERIORITY STAGE - 7th thru 15th years This is when cops are at their best. They have survived changes in administration. They know how the political game is played, both inside and outside of the department. They know who they can trust and who they can't. They have select friends within the department, and stay away, as best they can, from the nuts and boot-lickers. They know the legal system, the judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, etc. They know how to testify and put a good case together. They are usually the ones that the brass turn to when there is some clandestine request or sensitive operation that needs to be done right. These cops are still physically fit and can handle themselves on the street. They will stay around the station when needed, but have other commitments; such as a second/third job, a second/third spouse, a second boyfriend/girlfriend (sometimes both), etc. They have most of their friends are Law Enforcement now. ACCEPTANCE STAGE - 15th to ???? Now the cops have a single objective... retirement and pension Nothing is going to come between them and their monthly check The boss, the city (or State, or county), the idiots around the station, and the creeps on the street can all go to hell... because they could come between them and "sitting on the beach". There is no topic of discussion that can't somehow lead back to retirement issues. These guys are usually sergeants, detectives, crime scene technicians, station duty, or some other post where they will not be endangered, but being cops they still get stupid at times, and put their butts on the line. They especially don't want some young stupid cop getting them sued, fired, killed, or anything else causing them to lose their "beach time". These guys are always there if needed. They spend a lot of time having coffee, hanging around the station, and looking at brochures of things they want to do in retirement. Retirement Stage Then the retired cop usually dies within the first five years of retirement, because he/she misses the job - saving the city (or State, or county) a bunch of money. Go figure............its a great career, stay with it!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

That's an interesting point, Double knit polyester is less threatening evidently. I wore it for 25yrs, it sucked, it was hot in the summer, did not keep you warm in the winter, would get shiny if you washed and dried it at home, one small scrape and the material is ruined. The "BDU" pant you are referring to is cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, is wash and wear, lasts longer, and (gasp) even has a small pocket for your cell phone. Our wick material polo shirts are very intimidating as well............;) I'll agree with you to a certain extent on tactical vests, we just recently got the option to wear one. A fully loaded duty belt can weigh upwards of 20lbs. I started having some chronic back issues after wearing one for so many years and some other medical related issues. Wearing the outer vest solved those problems, over half the equipment I used to carry on my belt now goes on the vest. It took the majority of weight off my belt. I get comments or questions from people, once I explain most seem to understand. Believe it or not, those things are cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than wearing a vest under your shirt. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

These folks come from the far sides of the spectrum, and I'm good with that. "Smacks of us vs. them" spoken from the Ivory Tower. Try rolling around in the street with someone, when the fight starts, it is us vs. them. This isn't a game, two LEO's have been shot and killed this week. Just watch and see if the police back off of being proactive, crime rates will rise. That same vocal group will blame whom for that...............the police. Don't ya love the irony? There were riots in Cincinnati in 2001, the police backed off and the murder rate when up by almost a 3rd. Those vocal groups are the 1st to point out the low crime rates we currently enjoy, so it can't possibly be as dangerous as they are led to beleive. Who in the heck is mainly responsible for that, well hell, sure couldn't be LEO's, that would smack of common sense........... "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

I think the only ones we are losing is a small, but very vocal group we never really "had" in the first place. There are ways people can find out what's going on in their communities, I suggested ways to be active and make an informed decision. I do think the militarization is a problem at the federal level, read the article I linked in the first post. At the local level, mission creep is an absolute concern. It's comes down to leadership and what the local population wants. The 1033 program is very beneficial to local agencies, it saves money and increases capabilities in many areas at minimal cost. 95% of the items acquired are not weapons or tactical vehicles. LE has been using surplus equipment since the 50's. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Most cops will tell you the same thing. Unless you take appropriate measures to help yourself (in any given number of situations), all we are going to do is be able to clean up the mess and investigate. The vast majority of LEO's favor concealed carry, also look up the ALICE program for active shooter response. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Oh, I forgot the "Aircrew Nametag" as well. Unless of course it's going to rescue your kid from a school shooting, your wife from an active shooter, or worse. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

I love your assumptions, waayyyy off base............ I hadn't posted here in years, but you're still the same. If you have anything substantive to bring to the discussion please, feel free. As of yet, nope, nada, zip.......... "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

I'd have to agree, an MRAP for the cost of shipping vs. $230.000 for a Bearcat. Which is a better value for local taxpayers? An MRAP is better suited during hurricane rescues/response as well. The MRAP discussion is an interesting one, for LE purposes an MRAP is nothing more than a large truck with an armored capsule, a moving ballistic shield. An agency in our area used theirs for a barricaded guy with a scoped rifle, it's use prevented casualties and took a distance advantage away from bad guy. He ended up shooting out the spotlight, but that's all he could damage. You seldom see those stories in the media. They have also turned out to be decent flash flooding/swift water rescue vehicles, due to their size and weight The same can be said for HMMWV's, ours is used for bad weather, clearing debris, and special events. We used it last winter during a snow storm two days after we got it. We are not worried about damaging it, we do the minimum maintenance. I've been able to obtain a bench stock of parts along with all the maintenance manuals. If we have a major component failure we turn it back in. We have a full sized four wheel drive vehicle, along with response equipment (surplus also) for literally less than a thousand bucks. This is a capability we did not previously have. For anyone who makes a living doing preparedness, Orlando Florida would be the poster child for an armored vehicle. Like it or not attractions in the area are primary targets for attacks. It sounds like they are replacing an existing one for whatever reason. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Thanks for the Merrill McPeak lecture, next time save it for someone who didn't live through the TQM era.......... It's never a trivial number if it invovles you HOWEVER, There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of police contacts contacts yearly. Most routine, some not, less than 1% end in controversy. Try telling people what they have to do, when they don't want to do it, over and over and have it work eveytime without problems. Could improvements be made, hell yes they can, and are ongoing on a daily basis. Again, quit making assumptions based on forms of media and find out for yourself. You realize if a cop uses deadly force, there is a very high likelyhood he will go infront of a Grand Jury (and rightfully so), even if he/she is justified. Again, please save the lecture, I've been invloved in Community Policing since the 80's. Talk to any professional who deals with people in crisis, the vast majority get sued, some multiple times, during their professinoal careers. Some are justified, some not, good people make mistakes. In some jobs mistakes can cost lives. If an officer acts outside of established policy or with malice, he/she can be held personally and financially responsible. There is no nice way to use force, just because it looks bad on the internet, dosn't mean it isn't within proper guidelines. The one place we find some common ground in retention of officers who may not need to be retained. In large cities, arbitration has kept questionable cops on the street. Cops make mistakes but there are certain mistakes, which may question the officers ability to do the job. Sort of like telling some students/jumpers politely or not so poliltely, that they should take up bowling as a hobby. As far as "dumping on me" goes, no biggie, all I'm trying to do is counter the misinformatino and hype currently being put out. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

It's all good, I've been feeling saucey............... I'm glad you brought up the National Review and the like. I'm a very conservative guy, but somehow the National Review and Heritage Foundation types think the cops are very different than they actually are. I called the Heritage Foundation about what they were reporting on the internet in reference to Ferguson. Most of what they were reporting simply wasn't true, it was sensationalized non-factual bullshit, much like the hard left puts out. I had thought about joining the organization numerous times, no way now. I talked to a guy in the "political action" section or something like that. When I actually confronted him on the phone with factual information, he back pedaled like Obama's Press Secretary. It's just like when I take our Humvee out to public events, I can see the snipes in the crowd, who will say stuff with a hand over their mouths, but never come over and talk or have the fortitude to ask questions. There are many people who aren't sure why we would need it, they come over and ask. Once I explain what we use it for, the cost vs. capability, it's actual uses and how we've equipped it, they are nodding their heads in agreement. As far as dogs, I really hate to say this, but it is nothing new. It's been hyped beyond belief, the dog in Utah was tragic, but they were looking for a lost child with special needs. That is just one example. I'm a dog/animal lover, I've adopted two greyhounds, also have a golden, and two rescued cats. But I've had to shoot several dogs for a variety of reasons, and I'd do the same again given the situation. When I was supervising, my people had to shoot a couple as well, they were tragic but necessary. As far as lawsuits go, you do this job, you are going to get sued. Just remember, for everything you just quoted, there are THOUSANDS, of police contacts that never make the news or the internet. Many of these are under very difficult circumstances, the number that end up in controversy is less than .01%. The sad thing is those are the incidents that sell newspapers and ad space. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

If you have time to watch youtube and read Radley Balko, I suggest you take the time to contact your local PD. If they offer a citizens police academy, attend it. Some departments also offer ride-alongs. After doing these things make an informed decision, if you still feel the local PD is "losing you", engage the leadership, let them know how you feel. We are all in this together, as corny as that sounds. The media and internet just hype incidents for any number of reasons, the main one being selling ad space. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

I couldn't agree more, If you look at the big picture over the last few years, crime is nearing all time lows, as a whole officers are better trained and educated than ever before BUT; If you talk to police trainers many will tell you young people coming into the job are ill prepared in one area. The use of force, and it comes from before they were officers. Many young people today are far removed from physical confrontations, it's starts early and is reinforced over and over, especially in school. Some, and I say some, younger officers will go from zero to one hundred too fast when faced with a physical confrontation. Old crusty guys like me would fight at the drop of a hat growing up, at times it would be encouraged to solve problems after school. I won some and I lost some, but I learned some valuable lessons. Now it's completely different. If you ask many young people if they have ever been in a fight, you'd be surprised how many say no. It sounds like a small thing, but it's been identified as a potential trend in training. Replicating it in training is difficult, even the military has become somewhat risk averse when it comes to training. So has law enforcement, and that is a shame. One of the only ways to overcome this situation is to train very hard and realistically and that causes injuries. In the real world training injuries should not be a major factor, but in the new PC world they are, take my word for it. I never claim the police are always right, but there is ALOT of misinformation, especially on the internet. It has made everyone an armchair expert. When it comes to Ferguson, no one really knows the facts, and it's my hunch they will surprise people. But it's too late, most various forms of media have made up their minds. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Acceptable causalities among LEO's, genius........... A perfect example of people only seeing what they want to see. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

You are simply wrong, and I'll tell you why. When I first started in training they called it "Tombstone Courage". Running into a potentially deadly situation (mainly involving firearms), when it could be isolated and contained was frowned upon and discouraged in training. That's what the SWAT team is for was the genre. In 1999 that training formula was turned on it's head. The responding officers and command staff adhered to the way they were trained and several people lost their lives at Columbine High School because of it. The responding agencies and officers were sued, called cowards, and dragged through the mud by the fledgling 24hour news/internet cycle. Several officers/teams wanted to make entry at Columbine, but were denied by command staff. Because of this incident and several other similar incidents, officers now immediately rush to the sound of the gunfire to actively engage the suspect(s) by whatever means necessary. That is a military tactic requiring a warrior mindset. I never, ever thought I'd see suppressive fire as an acceptable police tactic. During an active shooter scenario everything is on the table, much like it wasn't at Columbine. The same goes for acceptable casualties, we were trained there were never acceptable casualties because a situation can be contained and isolated. I don't know one cop who would not take a bullet for your kid. We now train very hard for an active shooter scenario, whether it's a school or a work place. We had one recently and it ended quick when the bad guy realized the cops were coming immediately, he killed himself. I wore one of those uniforms you mentioned for many, many years. There is a vast different difference in military vs. police tactics, as there should be. But there are (unfortunately) a limited amount of circumstances where the two may meet. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Defense: We are here for a suppression hearing your honor Judge: What are the facts Defense: My client was charged with possession of cocaine, we want to suppress the search Judge: Officer? Me: Your honor, the defendant (adult) was stopped walking on the highway with two juveniles who were intoxicated, he was not charged with giving them alcohol because he was cooperative and had outstanding warrants. After he was searched, but before he went into the jail he was asked if he had anything on him where I couldn't find it, because the jail will and it's an additional felony. The suspect then told me he had a baggie of cocaine in his rectum, he was searched by the jailers after being brought in, there was a baggie of cocaine in his rectum. Since he told me when asked, I did not charge him with the additional felony, just the possession. Welcome to my world, the attorney was actually pissed because it wasn't suppressed. I didn't know the attorney, but if anything is cut and dried, it was this. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Can't be friends with everybody, some of them lack integrity, use very shady tactics, or just plain idealougues that can't be reasoned with. I do feel sorry for the PD's especially the young ones, they are overworked and very underpaid. The ones I don't like are very few in number and they are treated professionally. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"