miked10270

Hi John, I just thought you ought to know that apparently arguing the point in these threads has now become somewhat passe. The appropriate (safe) response for this thread would be for us to discuss something like "The drainage characteristics of the Pripet Marshes in Springtime"! The actual appropriate arguments to the responses in this thread can cause insanity! Stick to the Pripet Marshes discussion if you want to stay safe! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

Yeah... We've finally taken that further step. There's no longer any need to post any argument in the first place. We no longer argue over the point! We no longer argue over the arguments!! We no longer argue over the people we argue with!!! We now argue over the arguing about our arguments about the people who .. (Bra.i..n M..e..l..t..d...o...w.......___) Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

You're Right! So... 1. Troops out. 2. Level the place with B-1s B-2s, B-52s & Cruise with W-80s. 3. Prevailing wind carries fallout & secondary explosions from all the nerve-gas factories over Iran & Southern Afghanistan. 4. We "rebuild from the ground up". 5. (Once the geiger-counters stop blowing a fuse) Move the Israeli Jews in to "New Zion" to run the oil industry. THEY understand finance and will cover our costs. 6. Give the Palestinians "Old-Israel" and let them call it Palestine again. They get the orange farms, the Israelis get the oil wells. Problem solved. Job done. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

Good report. Interesting detail. But does it make the case for the invasion?: "We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," "The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s." "The chemical weapons were not in useable conditions." "This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war." I STILL think that we were right to go into Iraq & oust Hussein. I still thinkthe political planning was incomplete, particularly for the aftermath of winning the war (which was a foregone conclusion). I STILL think that our troops should have been out of there long ago! I STILL think that Iraq has caused us to "drop-the-ball" in Afghanistan, where the drugs trade is resurgent! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

OK... Y'All heard about How Mexico has withdrawn from the Beijing 2008 and London 2012 Olympic Games? President Vincent Fox states that Mexico is unable to send a team for political reasons... Every Mexican who can run, jump or swim has skipped the border and gone to America! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

I'll do it! I think I can get him off!! No. Really!!! The 2 blokes who run our local Kebab Shop look just like him. My plan is to fly them over and demand an identity parade! Then... Once the prosecution case collapses on identification, he's free.

Then how would any of us learn? Still, I'm sure that the cry: "Left-Wing-Propaganda" will soon be heard. "A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices." ~Edward R. Murrow (1908 - 1965) Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

That too was an absolutely good move at the time. The Shah gave us a stable relationship for a long time. And now look at the mess. Sorry John... The only Good thing about the US installation of Reza Pahlevi in Iran is the giggle we get out of America having someone called Kermit install a "Puppet Government" Between 1949 & 1953 Iran was a secular democracy. Then the Iraqis voted "Socialist" and it was proposed to nationalise Iranian oil and actually charge oil companies for the privelege of oil extraction. HOW DARE THEY!!! This is what was so unacceptable at the time. Having given the Fuzzy-Wuzzys democracy, they were expected to "play nice" with it and still act like a colony! Such "land reforms" (like Castro's first reforms in Cuba), wouldn't even raise an eyebrow today. In fact, they're part of many companys policies in the form of access to share options or "profit-sharing" for the workforce. So... We took a secular democracy and created an absolute monarchy with a feckless playboy as its head. This degenerated into a brutal, oppressive regime until things snapped. Had we not done so, then Ayatollah Khomeni would never have been driven into exile, never become the rallying point of dissent, and would probably have only ever been famous for doing a nice wedding service! He certainly would never have developed his hatred of America. The Middle East really doesn't just hate us for fun. We continually preached "Democracy" and "Will of the people" to them while enforcing the exact opposite. If a burglar kept coming into your house and stealing stuff, would you welcome him in because he says that this time he's not going to steal anything?... Or would you just shoot the bastard based on what he did to you all the other times he came? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

Durability and the ability to work despite abuse and a lack of care ARE valid criteria. More so depending on the environment you expect to fight in and the quality of training your troops receive. Mikhail Kalashnikov on being shown the L-85 at Enfield: "You must have very clever soldiers to work these." Now... WHY does an infantryman need accuracy to 600 meteres when almost all infantry engagements take place at under 200 metres? The M-14, AR-10, G3 & FN/SLR were good out to 600 metres. They were replaced with more suitable designs of infantry weapon. Are you advocating the US intervene to restore democracy to Venezuela? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

WIth globalisation, is it possible to boycott a particular countrys products? For example, want to bet against your Japanese brand product actually being manufactured in the USA / China / Vietnam / Mexico / Canada / Europe / etc... All you'd be doing on a practical level is putting a local workforce out of a job. WHat may be more fun (not to mention a worthwhile tactical exercise) is for the pro-ban nations to track whalers & "let" their sub commanders impersonate whales. "Harpoon THIS Slant-Eyes & we might just "Harpoon" you right the fuck back!" Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

My vote goes to The Host Nation. I think it important they see themselves as the world champions at something... And Football (OK, Soccer) is a relatively safe option! Even more delightful to me will be the deafening silence from The English Tabloid Press if they defeat England. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate - right up there with the inflatable Spitfires some of the England fans have been waving about. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

One "nice" thing about the SLR was it's ability to shoot THROUGH a house at close range! THe 7.62x51mm was better in a bolt-action rifle for accuracy. I found that the FN / SLR had a bit of a "throw" to it. which spoiled it's accuracy even with a SUIT-Sight. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

It's not just the weapon, it's the ammunition. AS far as I can remember, for every 100 rounds of an FNs 7.62x51mm NATO carried, you can pack 140 rounds of an AKs 7.6sx39mm and a whopping 180 rounds of an ARs 5.56x445mm. In an infantry engagement, the number of bangs you can make is important. As for the folding stock on an FN, I'm pretty sure that you can't use the weapon with the stock folded. The mainspring is inside the stock - it certainly was on our SLRs. THey weighed in at TWICE the weight of an AR (15 or 18). Of course, all these arguments would have been long settled had it not been for Churchill caving in to American pressure to abandon the .280" (7x43mm) Enfield cartridge & the EM-2 http://world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,808713,00.html Mike. Edited to add: One other thing... Don't even THINK about using an FN on automatic... Unless taking off backwards at high speed is a major part of your plan. It's frankly uncontrollable on automatic, which is why the British Army version was self-load only (not that this ever stopped us wedging a matchstick into the interruptor and fitting an LMG magazine on at least one occasion) Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

I also thought the comparison was between the Ak & AR weapons. GIven that the original premise of the assault rifle was that almost all infantry engagements take place at under 200 metres. The FN-FAL was originally designed at the same time as the Enfield EM-2 for the .280 Enfield cartridge. With the US insistence on a larger cartridge (7.62 NATO) with their M-14 rifle, the FN-FAL was able to be redesigned around the larger cartridge while the EM-2 wasn't. The FN-FAL IS more powerful and longer ranged, both it and it's ammunition are far larger and heavier. A rifle & ammunition have to be carried by an infantryman. The lighter the rifle & ammunition are, the more ammunition which can be carried. The FN-FAL is unneccessarily powerful, large and cumbersome for infantry engagements. THat's why it's been abandoned by modern armies. Given the choice between an AR, AK & FN, the FN would be my absolute last choice. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

I'd love to... BUT the most significant part of The Koran is that it calls "Jesus Christ" a great prophet and says that faithful Christians, Jews and Muslims will ALL be saved by Allah/God. The Cow: [2.62] "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve." "Isa, son of Marium": http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=isa&size=First+100 WHich, when you think about it, makes something of a mockery of Islams battle against the Christian "infidels", doesn't it!? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

Yeah... But Boeing DON'T have complete wings built in Wales, complete fuselages built in Germany, complete tailplanes built in Italy(?) and the whole lot transported to France to be put together! If I remember right, the elctrics are built in France, go to Germany for inclusion in the fuselage, then the completed fuselage gets shipped back to France! Meanwhile, the Welsh wings "had" to be built where the only way to transport them to the ship was by building a specially designed semi-submersible barge that could negotiate the rive the wings have to go down, and then only at certain times & tides! But... Airbus IS a Pan-European Consortium with heavy political involvement... So why are we surprised at component supplies & production facilities being negotiated & decided with at least one eye to continued re-election!!? Airbus is a fine aircraft range, I'll go as far as to say the range is superior to Boeings equivalents (The US DoD recently selected an Airbus Design over Boeing), but it's being fucked by politics. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

The way I read it was that they're having trouble filling their orders because of the complicated parts supply. Hence, orders are being cancelled by impatient customers. The bottom line problem with Airbus is that they build bits of the plane scattered all over Europe and then have to bring all the bits together in the right order at the right time. It works fine IF the right bits arrive in the right order, but if one thing gets out of synch, then the disruption ripples right down the line. In effect, it's a transportation problem rather than a problem with the actual aircraft (When they actually manage to complete one). In contrast, Boeings parts suppliers and assembly tend to be geographically close, if not at adjoining locations. Perhaps this will move Boeing to re-instate some of it's workers? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

I think that AKARUNAWAY probably hit the nail on the head with his link: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/politics/30weapons.html?ex=1283054400&en=3cfe3f671fb60922&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss. In particular: "The United States once again dominated global weapons sales, signing deals worth $12.4 billion in 2004, or 33.5 percent of all contracts worldwide. But that was down from $15.1 billion in 2003." Think of the armaments industry workers! We're losing sales guys!! If these factories close, then we'll have to import weapons for our own military!!! As for the AK Vs AR debate, I thought that had been settled long ago. The AR (M-16, etc...) is the lighter (in every respect) and more accurate weapon. The better choice IF you have a well trained and disciplined army... A professional army with troops who are certain to maintain their weapons. However... The AK can stand far more abuse and lack of care. It is easier to operate with minimal training. The better choice if you are raising an "Army" by handing out green fatigues and a gun. The better choice for conscripts and militias. In effect, it is far quicker and cheaper to produce a soldier capable of using an AK than it takes or costs to produce a soldier capable of using an AR. The resulting AK fire may not be as accurate, but rest assured there will be a hell of a lot of it! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

Or... Y'All could do the charitable, Christian thing... Send them one that definitely works? That'll save them having to test theirs! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

My wife is English. I from the deep south (Louisiana). Ice. Ice is good. I ask my wife for ice in my drink and she puts 2 pieces in the glass. It's taken years, but I'm getting used to it. Two cubes? TWO CUBES!!!? Surely ice cubes would make the nice hot cup of tea go cold far too fast! It's waste! All the second cube does is clink against the first one. IF you REALLY need such a sound when drinking, then get an irritating child with a toy xylophone. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

Yeah... I'm going to vote for "The Ordinary Iraqi" to win more peace and less fear. Anyone else seen: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5098896.stm Incidentally, the UK troops are staying to see if they can score any more kit the American Troops abandon! Listening to a US General tonight - he says that the one equipment thing the Americans REALLY envy about the Brits is their ability to produce copious quantities of hot water on demand!

By a coincidence I was watching Tim Collins on TV tonight commenting on the British Army. One of his anecdotes, right after the tirade against what he called "Judicial Voyeurism" was about how he was approached at the Oxford Student Union and asked: "Do you think that there's a 'Culture of Violence' in the British Army?" His reply was: "Yes. That's what we do!" He also talked about the drive into Iraq & the Brits gettin into fist-fights with Bedouin over the stuff the "lavishly equipped" American troops were leaving behind. He also talked about the way that British Troops worked in Bosnia, etc... "Every time a patrol stopped, 2 things came out of the vehicles. First thing was a dog. Invariably a local stray adopted by the troops, the "Boz-Dog". Second thing was a football. The little kids would come up to pet the dog, the troops started a kick around, attracted local adolescents, and got them to join in a game. Unfortunately, the "Boz-Dog" trick doesn't work in Iraq. Different culture. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5096660.stm "Three US soldiers have been charged with premeditated murder following the shooting of three male Iraqi prisoners." "The accused soldiers have been identified as Army Staff Sgt Raymond Girouard, Spc William Hunsaker and Pfc Corey Clagett." Does ANYONE really believe that the US army is such an undisciplined rabble that yet another 3 soldiers / NCOs will completely disregard their orders or rules of engagement "just for fun"? OR do we have yet another 3 poor SOBs who're being persecuted for following their orders & training. Once again, the unit commanders of whatever seniority seem to be conspicuous by their absence in this investigation. teflon-coated. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

Bang on. Thank you. Rather than shouting about how "Great" you or I are as a country, maybe it'd be better to consider what you as an individual give to "worthy causes" (which don't include the local ballet company or favoured college). Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

You're right. I DON'T suppose it was "lost" by The US Army. I bet it was bought from an arms dealer and the reason Zarqawi favoured it was that it was more controllable than an AK given his injured state at the time. Bear in mind that arms sales aren't political, they're... Just Business! Let's face it, H&K, BAe, Colt, etc... will sell to ANY middleman who makes a moderately convincing case that he represents a government not openly at war with the host country. To the best of my recollection, the AR-15/M16 & derivatives are manufactured in at least 8 countries. Meanwhile, the largest producer of the AK family of weapons (by a bloody big margin) is China! My point on the topic is that Venezuela manufacturing AK103s on the scale they have planned isn't going to make a difference worth a damn to the availability or supply of AKs or weapons in general. It's just another (pretty feeble) excuse to shout "BOGEYMAN!" Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.