ChrisD

Um, no thanks. SPOILER ALERT!!! The whole method of invasion made no sense. Why go through the trouble? The only way the species can attack a planet is make clones of whoever they send up, and then fool them into thinking they're fighting for the good guys? Please. And more importantly, why let him onto the mothership at the end? You've got technology capable of all the shit that the aliens can do, but you can't tell that there's a bomb on the ship (that you made)? It seemed like about 3/4 of the way through filming they sat down and said, "Okay, how are we going to end this thing?" At least it had some plot akin to "real" science fiction. I was actually surprised they even made this film, considering most sci fi has to have at least 120 db mindless action for 2 hours to even make the charts these days... C I hope the remake of "Forbidden Planet" has the fiction and plot of the original, and not at the expense of the studio pandering to a mindless crowd with excessive effects... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

He did the very same thing ...that he continues (ad nauseum) to rail about - and use every "excuse" he possibly can, to re-trench, which is all he is doing, YET AGAIN here ...back when he got "banned from AFF" by TRUMPETING that the DZ's he was going to, were all also DANGEROUS, because they refused to put SkyHooks (what he saw at the time as THE only way to be correct & "safe") ON ALL STUDENT GEAR! ...Therefore, that also, made those DZ's student centers "negligent" - (his outright accusations at the time! ), and unsafe. Nothing new here to see (or even legitimately - consider) at all, from this moron. We are all aware of the issues and personalities involved. There are lots of fake bigginner sizing questions that beg for some sort of action as well...that drive me nuts. Rest assured, That if someone is unable to perform the requisite hop and pops there are enough that see the wisdom in not granting him a lic. Name calling, well, accomplishes nothing.... Except that episode of "Married with children," When Al teaches bud about revenge.....

I love Mr. Cazer. And I love your well thought out response.... It's just when someone, well intentioned

No one is saying he does not have a reason. No one is saying it might not even be a good idea. What I am saying is Booth and other manufacturers have an influence on the BOD that is greater than the jumpers who make up the USPA. Is the USPA an organization to support the manufacturers, or the jumpers? ***And if you have meet Bill you are aware he is a mouthpiece for no one! You have (intentionally?) missed the thread. It is not about Booth being the mouth piece of anyone. It is the BOD being a mouth piece for Booth. An I have known Booth since 1996, so I know a bit about him. The issue is the new containers are not meeting the TSO standards they were certified under. The solution is to fix that, not move the AAD altitude up. Naw I didn't miss any thing here, and your right on target as far as the USPA is our and for jumpers. It's just that the USPA, us / we have a multitude of opinions! there is nothing like facing off in a room full of drop zone owners as compared with individuals that want the freedom to abolish the SIM. Yes there are those of us out there that don't want any regulation at all! They usually point out that once their out the door, no regulation is going to save their ass! And ya know what they are right! Then we have the owners and many others that point out your actions, affect my sport! And they are right! On the other hand some of these individuals have experience over the last 50 or so years. They did stuff, that would get You or I kicked off the most liberal of drop zones in a heartbeat. That kind of experience cost a few lives, they are the survivors... When they speak, I listen. Not that I approve of everything they say mind you as you are pointing out. But on the other hand their opinion is missing here on this forum, as well as the manufacturers voice as well. If ya want to go thru the posted min of some of these meetings... Well continue the good fight, this might be one of those hard decisions I speak about because of the nature of the things we do.... I fully support putting pressure on the manufacturers to raise their game Just be kind in the fact that they have to deal with employees, lawyers, and large numbers of individuals all with varying ideas of how things should be done. I think having adjustable firing altitudes is going to be the compromise that is worked out as soon as the other manufacturer gets their act together. As well as for D lic holders there isn't going to be much of a change. It's your local DZ and their insurance that is pushing for mandatory AAD's, I don't like the idea of forcing expensive equipment upon anyone, especially when they point out it's their life and I can't do shit for them if something goes wrong. We might see mandatory AAD requierments if some NTSB or politicians kid gets wacked and they don't have one, this is what keeps me up at night, the government mandate will be swift and absolute, we have seen this kind of reaction before...And then our organization won't matter for shit! But I think your spot on when form and function clash with the idea that many want to belive in that the containers are built with reserve function first. Just dig out some literature from the seventies to see what is promoted or better said marketed as compared with today! Most jumpers just want to jump, it's tough enough to get the average jumper to check their closing loop washer nevermind take an interest in the future of jumping.... Keep up the fight, it's through your efforts and comments that the min effort is heard, it's a war kid! Don't loose sight of that. Each and every day, each and every opportunity, such is a crusade! And sometimes that's what it takes to effect a positive change such as you have undertaken! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

It's a Quigley dude, Do it and move on.... C You need help getting there, ask and you shall receive...practice for it, do what it takes to prepare, train, and train some more,... But if this causes that much stress and anxiety then we need to re-asses your choice to jump. You need to prove to me that you can do this, pass or fail, it's that simple. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Yes, I work as a packer. Usually when a jumper is complaining that the loop is too tight I can pull 2" of closing loop through the last grommet (by using good technique, not by just horsing it closed). If your speaking about a properly tensioned V3, especially the larger ones, yes you can easily pull a lot more loop thru. But if your not aware of the relationship between the cover top and the side flaps....then it's your opinion how tight is tight or not. And this is the crux of what I'm try ing to point out. Now if you, in the case of just one manufacturer, and basically that's all folks, just one manufacturer has posted the min tension recommended, want to quantify your reasoning somehow....then you might see how the stereotypical attitude of tighter is better than just making the statement "I've seen many too loose." What exactly do you look for when a pin is too loose? I mean if you were to stand up with the rig on and by gravity the pin falls out, I would consider that to be too loose, but short of that how does one make this call? Thanks for your comments, you did illustrate that being able to pull cord is not related to tension or proper function.

Thank you for this. You put in a downsized canopy, and now the main loop force feels "light." So someone shortens the loop as much as possible. You’re not really compressing the container as much as stretching the loop to its max! The individuals pulled so hard that the loop actually pulled thru... In the other example the loop was so short, the side flaps clearly were pushing against the top flap closing protector, the user was hitting with their fist to get the flap to close, or get it flusher, this was causing unusual wear on the side flaps and the top cover. To the point small indentations and some minor fraying were taking place. Yes, I wish I took a picture. But I was traveling. The small indentations, if the bridal did anything other than a normal stable pull, now faced the prospect of having to slide thru the top cover. Normally the top cover would just open or move out of the way, but with the indentations and small groves in it because over time the side flaps now had matching indentations, the force to open the top flap was greatly increased! All you have to do to duplicate this is just pull your PC from the left side to see this effect. So after seeing this, I now notice every V3 and Micron from a distance as well as more than a few Icons, you can clearly see the side flaps pressing on the top cover, or how the top cover doesn't fully seat into its slot, because it is clearly bowed, from about ten feet away! The individuals, the few that I questioned, clearly didn't have a clue, and all mentioned main loop tension as the "important" factor...They were clearly unaware of the manufacturer’s instructions, and in Sun path’s case these instructions are on the front page of their respective container manuals. Clearly the message regarding having a particular size container and a matching particular size main aren’t getting the attention it deserves. There are more than a few of us that use large knots on our closing loops, we can debate this till the cows come home, under normal circumstances I will always recommend others to use a washer, but if I'm going to make a large knot now I have to look out for overzealous packers that like to use enormous forces, enough to pull a large knot thru a small grommet, which is what my Micron is fitted with. Literally we have all seen others pack with those tools, and frequently use their feet against the container and both arms. So you can see if someone willy nilly shortens my or anyone’s loop without understanding what they are really doing????? Again the loop is fully hitting flaps and isn’t compressing anything! Literally the loop tension is increased because it is being stretched between two fixed points! The 2010 Parachutist article mentions this, but the large numbers of individuals shortening their loops to the point that the top flap can’t fully close because the side flaps hit is because so many believe that more tension on the knot is the way to go... As far as the worry about pin tension being too light, caution is always a great idea, but how much is too light? And how do the vast majority of individuals judge this tension? It's not like we have main bags just falling out of the container on a regular basis just because? Do a simple test like sitting sideways in a PAC it don't matter if the pin force is 20 lbs or 2 lbs, you can't tell when your container has hit something or not! And the strange belief that somehow the pin is going to fall out by itself just isn't based upon any facts. Most of these rigs in question have everything fully covered. But this is a main closing loop tension discussion considering the large numbers of individuals that are making decisions without any factual basis! People are judging the closing loop tension without reading the manuals. And in the case of these fixed loop rigs they are in fact doing things that have consequences. In a sense the tension is determined by the proper canopy. These loops are not adjustable. Main loop tension is a function of design and the correct canopy. Some manufacturers in order to get this point across are sewing the sizing chart into their rigs! So when I see individuals ignoring the obvious in favor to do what they “think” is the right tension because they have always done it “that” way I get concerned! Especially when a number of riggers I have met haven’t a clue regarding the cover and flaps hitting, the lack of continuing education is quite disturbing considering this issue has been around well before Nick wrote the article in 2010. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Male predators exsist everywhere, every sport, every endeavor, every occupation... As a matter of GD fact Its' been my experience that females get better respect and less objectified on the DZ than many , many other places. I would imagine that some have individual horror stories, but for the most part, the large numbers support my observation. Despite the banter that does exsist. There is no place on the DZ for marginilising and objectifying women. On the other hand I am sexist, and proud of it! I hold the Otter door open for my female dates, as well as mandatory chocholate for the first date as well as flowers for my dates mother, if err,.. she is still alive at the nursing home. I open my signifignts others car door open, from the outside each and every time the opportunity presents itself! As well as paying for dinner. C "when I warned female Aussie skydivers ..."

Seconded. Ditto,... I would add some yoga for injury protection. If your flexable you can take the unexpected hit and are more likely to walk away from it.... Great question! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I want to clarify a point raised by this issue, that really belongs in another thread... What a AAD reports as history...May, OR NOT, reflect reality... In other words the AAD reports, records, what its' sensor and clock calculate to be the firing altitude. This may not be the actual altitude. My point being that too many just accept the recorded data as the actual altitude that the unit fired at. All you can say is: "That the unit recorded this or that altitude..." You cannot say that the unit recorded the actual, physical altitude, in the real world. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I just want to clairify one point here: Cypresss, because the public wanted and requested adjustable firing altitude's has incorporated this into its' product line. The Vigil people are still officially mum regarding adjustable firing altitudes. This is not the same as an offset. Bill Booth, Billy Webbber, Mr Sherman and others have been debating pull altitudes and testing equipment from before most of us were alive! They are the most experienced nuts on the planet as far as actually inducing and living thru emergency procedures, for real! If Booth and others want to raise altitudes it's for a reason. And if you have meet Bill you are aware he is a mouthpiece for no one! I would listen carefully to what is on the table and leave the personalities out of this or yo are all free to run for the USPA BOD and join the cluster fuck that passes for meetings and see for yourself the complexities of the issues that the representatives bring to the table. Bill Booth's reach doesn't extend to these meetings.... Trust me, the manufacturers want draconian rules, (some peoples interpertations.) Your USPA is consedeerably more liberal than you are aware of.... The rules are an attempt to increase safety for the majority of divers. The majority.... And I too wish more was done for training, training of any and all sorts...but you should hear the shit storm every time that subject comes up... Thanks again for the good fight! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

This is a question: Does your new container use a fixed length closing loop and why? Another one: If you change your main to one that is off the manufacturers sizing chart, what effect does this have on the main closing loop? Many manufacturers have posted the maximium main pin force required to extract the pin, UPT, for their V3's post's it as a maximum of 12 lbs of force. This is usually measured in the line of orientation that the pin is already in, mostly from left to right considering that most BOC pockets pull from the right side....(not fair to lefties if ya ask me.) Anyways the min force required is a hot topic. There are lots of skydivers that are under the belief that the more force required to pull the main pin the better! Now with some containers this is asking for trouble, esp if the bridal has to pull across an edge in an unstable deployment, the forces generated by even the smallest seam or sew edge can easily cause a PC in tow condition. This then leaves many in a quandary and has created the false belief that the more tension the better... A past repost of this topic: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2486560;search_string=closing%20loop%20length;#2486560 If in fact your new container has been sized for a fixed length closing loop, based upon the fact that it is of a certain size and meant to be used ONLY and I mean only with listed sized mains of a particular size,...you are off the charts so to speak by using a main that is either too small or too large compared with the manufacturers design of that container. This stereotype is in fact so strong regarding less 'ng main pin force by length'in your closing loop, I can't wait for the factorie's response.... Your knowledge level and experience matter if you answer this one. I am not particurly comfortable with this question with begginers or anyone who is not really gear happy. But considering the fact that skydiving is a gear dependent activity and I see large numbers of individuals that want to leave gear issues to the sole domain of "rigger's" and thus compromise their own safety as compared with learning how their gear actually works, here goes.... C Yes this is splitten hairs and in a sense I'm askin for a decision between the risks of too tight a pin as compared with too loose a closing loop. It is my position that too many closing loops are too tight and that there is a benifite to loosening your closing loop. But yes you need to know how loose and that is the question isn't it? If anyone want's to post their own containers min pin force or the manufacturers reccommondations specific flap adjustment procedures many or perhaps some of you will hopefully develop a deeper understanding of this issue. Making unsupported statements or referencing pictures that may or not be relevant is not the same as understanding the reasons why gear is the way it is. Differing manufacturers have differing ideas about their particular gear, we get into trouble by making broad stereotypes regarding closing loops across every brand that is out there... Here is one example of the main closing loop being of fixed length: http://www.sunpath.com/resources/Main-Closing-Loop-Length.pdf This is from the manufacturer.... You might also want to dig up the 2010 piece from Parachutist... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

At some point in time I'll take the time to state the obvious that many are overlooking at the moment. I'm more concerned about the mechanics of communication and the stereotypes that exsist about adjusting closing loops at the moment. Here is just one post from 2004 from another that doesn't use a washer as well... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1282288;search_string=main%20closing%20loop;#1282288 There is nothing new here..... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

After speaking with more than a few on this subject, a few issues have come up and here are the responses: The manufacturer is in the key position to determine via user feedback, manufacturing defects, and or defective materials, and or design changes via innovation or unusual wear. By self repairing, (this includes well meaning riggers) you have in a sense deprived the manufacturer of this information. And as a consequence done nothing to improve product reliability or safety for the skydiving consumer. If there is in fact an issue with a part of a component such as in this example, a kill line that is wearing before its' time, it needs to be returned to the manufacturer for inspection. So that the manufacturer can inspect for any issues and either make improvements, notify other users, or use a different manufacturing process or material. Many had this to comment on in addition: “The pilot chute bridal, kill line and bridal assembly, including the main pin and associated stitching all tends to wear at the same rate. User feedback indicates that replacing individual components is unwarranted as to the wear of the whole assembly.” I.e. in a sense you just chasing your tail by fixing something and ignoring the fact that every other necessary component is well past its' service life even when it may appear the other components are still serviceable. Additionally: “If a particular rigger wishes to replace components on a factory assembled and tested unit, they are free to do so, in the sense that we the manufacturer are unable to stop them. Realize however that then that rigger has put themselves into the position akin to a test pilot with someone else's aircraft.”” The manufacturer can now no longer assure the user of the same quality or reliability or safety that years of feedback and manufacturing experience have brought to the skydiving public.” If this wasn’t enough: “The PC bridal is a factory assembled unit, and now some want to take it apart and change parts, didn’t they see the user label that says: “”no user replaceable parts inside.”””

I might be wrong but I kinda think some of this sarchasim is warrented! Goonies Kid is actually looking out for this individuals best interests... Implied in the OP's original question is a bit of knowledge that most bigginers don't have. The immediate sarchasitic comment when the OP doesn't get the answer that they want to hear. The pandereing by a few to show others that they can answer any question without thinking and thus show others that they are more knolegable... And then we have someone who wants to "rate" the quality of responses like some sort of score card??? And takes the time to list, in their opinion, who is worth reading and who isn't?? What the fuck happened to personal responsibility? And learning as much as you can? The "KID" is right on by pointing out the logic expressed here, the wing loading is the point and to take part in this scam question as compared with "helping" a newbie is not the point. Most all AFF, A lic kids have a fundamental understanding of the wing loading issue. It is a requirement for the course and of the lic. By ignoring this issue in a real sense the OP is stating that they were not paying attention in their course. Or the instructor didn't teach it? Additionally the SIM is quite clear regarding the smaller canopy sizes and the differing flight characteristics. The OP apparently hasn't bother to read the SIM either? What is not said here is just as important as what has been said.... C I am disgusted by this constant trend here regarding future downsizing and purchase discussions by these individuals purportedly asking for biggineer advice, and the responses generated by supposedly more experienced individuals. All your doing is supporting the number one cause of injuries and death. Every time you answere this kind of question, wheather you understand this or not,... your supporting swooping by inexperienced people. If that's not what the OP wants to hear, then tha'ts too bad.... I for one don't need to hear back from a newbie what they want to hear or not, nor do I need my responses "rated" by an obvious scammer.... "and go all the way down to a zp 132 before I need a smaller one." "Thanks for the sarcasm! What wing load should I be looking at then?" "Exactly what I was looking for. " ETC, etc,.... Again the "rating" system in action.... Absolutley nothing about demoing, and all about future downsizing... Goonies Kid is spot on. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

None of this is funny,... The latest recomondation for all operators in that area is to now use coupled GPS approaches. The number of rejected approaches have increased dramatically after this incident. In other words pilots are expressing their opinion about the Port Authorities demands regarding using the bridge visual approach... and the Port Authorities ground equipment.... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

"I" believe "I" made my point clear that "I" use a double knot on my main closing loop, on my V3. If "I" am using a spectra line material, on my main closing loop "I" use a triple knot. You do whatever yo want...

I'm posting this a couple of places, bear with me,.... I dug this one up because of a couple of concerns about Vectors (VIII, Microns,) that I have seen lately... The offset is to ensure that the final flap, the pin protector, the top flap, etc,... fit's into its' pocket. I have seen a couple of V3's with smaller than design main canopies installed and the users have drastically shortened the main closing loop. Consequenses of this were that the "Main pin cover" gets pinched by the side flaps. One container had visible indentations on both the main pin flap cover and the piping on the left and right side flaps. To me this begs the question, that this increases the potential for a PC in tow if you have an unstable opening. The other thing I witnessed of late, regarding the fact that on these containers the grommets are not designed to line up, was the fact that some packers, in the effort to get the grommets to line up,...shortened the closing loop....there was no washer on the loop, (it wasn't necessary,) and the closing loop promptly pulled thru when the container was thrown on the rack hitting the side of the container...This could have happened in the aircraft! The well intentioned individuals thought that the tension was too loose on the closing loop!!! So they shortened it, no washer, dosent need a washer with the low tension when everything is properly sized. Double overhand knot, or I use a triple overhand knot on my closing loop. Or get a washer and make sure to check it for wear on a regular basis... Anyways with the increased tension caused by the shorter loop, it pulled thru its' grommet.... "We wanted it to look normal..." was what the person said regarding the fact that they didn't understand why the grommets didn't line up! The UPT manual states that the closing loop should be adjusted to no more than 12 lbs of force max! But the min is left up to the user, the min force is enough to keep everything in its place. There is no real recommended min pin force for the main loop. As you can see, if you use a non-recommended size main for your particular Micron or V3 you run some risks that may in fact affect performance. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I dug this one up because of a couple of concerns about Vectors (VIII, Microns,) that I have seen lately... The offset is to ensure that the final flap, the pin protector, the top flap, etc,... fit's into its' pocket. I have seen a couple of V3's with smaller than design main canopies installed and the users have drastically shortened the main closing loop. Consequenses of this were that the "Main pin cover" gets pinched by the side flaps. One container had visible indentations on both the main pin flap cover and the piping on the left and right side flaps. To me this begs the question, that this increases the potential for a PC in tow if you have an unstable opening. The other thing I witnessed of late, regarding the fact that on these containers the grommets are not designed to line up, was the fact that some packers, in the effort to get the grommets to line up,...shortened the closing loop....there was no washer on the loop, (it wasn't necessary,) and the closing loop promptly pulled thru when the container was thrown on the rack hitting the side of the container...This could have happened in the aircraft! The well intentioned individuals thought that the tension was too loose on the closing loop!!! So they shortened it, no washer, dosent need a washer with the low tension when everything is properly sized. Double overhand knot, or I use a triple overhand knot on my closing loop. Or get a washer and make sure to check it for wear on a regular basis... Anyways with the increased tension caused by the shorter loop, it pulled thru its' grommet.... "We wanted it to look normal..." was what the person said regarding the fact that they didn't understand why the grommets didn't line up! The UPT manual states that the closing loop should be adjusted to no more than 12 lbs of force max! But the min is left up to the user, the min force is enough to keep everything in its place. There is no real recommended min pin force for the main loop. As you can see, if you use a non-recommended size main for your particular Micron or V3 you run some risks that may in fact affect performance. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thanks for finding the "balls " to ask here,....

I need to see a newer video! So go and make one!!!

It is soo easy to do Yoga and miss stretching that one muscle that may be causing an issue. For your consideration: Find a sports medicine therapist that can measure you accurately for and differences from your L/R sides. A caution for heavy yoga users is that too much yoga without working on your strength can cause issues....Theer is such a thing as too much streatchin. And I'm not speaking about that bullshit sweedd study about stretching and performance. You may in fact have one muscle group that despite a lot of yoga is not getting stretched. There are zillions of small muscles that get overlooked. Change your stretching routine with someone that does things differently... Yoou may also want to consider some neck exercises.... I have a number of neck issues, many were discovered by a casual MRI. I spent time with the bone benders and found them to be a waste of time for me. I also found that by spending time with one medical group we were consistently missing some of the small stuff, that wasen't so small. It wasn't until I changed doctors and their particular place of PT, that I started to find more knowledgable staff that tried things differently.... For years I was instructed to do this or that, PT wise, so I sign up for a health club membership that included a recent physical evaluation where the people measured every bone and muscle group. They found one shoulder muscle that was about 1/2 inch different and suggested some kind of funky neck stretch that no one in the last 6 years had even thought to do, that every Pop Warner Football kid does every week. I fucking wanted to go back in time and hunt down evry shit head bone bender and MD that had fucked me over by suggesting this or that... I'm tellin ya in three weeks I was rid of pain that I had carried for years. I can tell almost instantly when I'm not doing my neck stretching the right way or I have just plain forgotten to do them for a time. It's a pain in the ass to go to the gym when yo don't want to... Doin the neck muscle building exercises is annoying, but they do work! Remember some muscle strains are permenant but that dosent mean there isn't stuff you can do to mitigate the injuries... AND I am so bullshit that so many doctors overlooked the obvious for so long... C I have actually had some EMG tests,... yo want to avoid them!!! Spend a year doing anything and everything else...before you willingly sign up for EMG testing....But hey, in some cases EMG tests do find actual nerve damage, that can't be located by other means,... but I understand in this day and age detailed MRI studies should be done first... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I suspect they have a concern for what you are doing. The list price from UPT for new, everything is about 115 dollars. After just watching the nice lady's manufacture the kill line assemblys and pilot chutes, there in fact may not be an exact length??? (They hold the assembly over a blower to test it, mark the window with a marker when the kill line is in the right position, and then tack the rest of the pc when everything is checked...) What other components need replacing? I think they want you to purchase the whole thing considering how they are manufactured as a complete assembly??? I can understand your wanting to do this yourself, saving money and also the satisfaction of doing it yourself,

I would like to hear more about distribution? They are implying that they are going to install a dual system? The cost's for grey Water distribution systems, dual pipes in the ground are generally astronomical...this deserves careful scrutiny.... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."