ChrisD

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23249012 Too much reliance on automatic systems... NTSB just pulls latest U tube vid from their site, they both indicated the pilots statement regarding the Vref speed and the FDR indicating same,...and now they pull the vid???? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqSSrU9L9ok&feature=youtu.be This is the vid they replaced it with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZZy_IC06ac They now explicitly state that they are requesting all approach data for the last few days! They now also explicitly state that the FDC was coupled... Gee you guys can't make up your minds, I tell ya about how things actually are in todays world: That the pilots are required to keep their heads fixed inside... That the pilots are required to fly all visual approaches with the auto systems engaged...(The NTSB confirmed this) and now it's too much reliance on automation?????? C Now here is something else that all of you have ignored about the NTSB: The NTSB want's to lower the DUI limit...to just one tenth of what it is currently...this means if you have 1.01 of your average beer 8 oz. You will be considered impared, if your about 110 lbs and the sample is taken within 22 min of ingesting same...(Give or take) That's one beer folks!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F36wWX1ZI70 No more beer... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

"I would think this means any change could drop it under those 7lbs." I du-no but maybe that's why the double stows are preferable? Perhaps the PD paper takes into account some "shrinkage" You could try double stowing, pack the rig for a couple of days, and then measure it? It might come down to the risk of making a decision between way to loose, which is a very documented and real life threatening issue as compared with a little tight? Remember as your packing gets better, the canopy is going to fit more easily, and as the canopy gets a little older it is also going to fit a little smaller, for both of these reasons then it's pointing to a double wrap. And if all of this isn't confusing enough? What is the current humidity at your location? This makes a big difference in packing volume as well. Anyways I wouldn't get to worried about this, sounds like yo are on the right track and hopefully some have paid attention to the effort required to do what the manufacturers suggests and the lenghths yo go to be as safe as you can...

The high end of the PD paper says 12 is preferable? Want to try the smaller size bands and see what happens? C Using what yo just said then double stowing might be the thing to do, : "I would think this means any change could drop it under those 7lbs. " ferris, anyone?? ... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Another view, do a search,

Oh really? My wife, who has 33,000 hours in large jets 'hand flys' them all the time... Yes...she flys the controls manually for all takeoffs and landings that are VFR. She must be stupid I guess... That's not what I meant and you know it... C Sorry...thought you meant what you said~ In my world, the stupid comes from the number of passengers that have been reported to block the isles of this aircraft whilst they retrieved their overhead luggage! With smoke rapidly filling the cabin???? If that wasn't enough the poor kid gets run over by a fire truck while running from the plane???? That is stupid! I get really pissed when so many think this thing is a piper cub, it is not. Would somebody please post their copy of the Boeing 777 FM? So you can see just how much work is involved in flying on of these things? Saying that the aircraft stalled is to me, like holding up a sign,...yes I apologize that everyone wants to take short cuts and I did use the word stupid but I am at war with the NTSB, I understand that is not your war, and I am sorry to get all caught up in this , you are ceertianly not stupid!....and again I apologize for the use of the word. There is so much that has not been talked about and just as much stuff coming out of the NTSB that is so far to the west of reality, that it takes someone who has been thru this in the past to see much of what I'm speaking about. Airline crashes can be very complex issues, with a multitude of issues, some of which we may never fully understand. I have written at length about the relationship between safety and the ability to handle a certain amount of traffic in a certain time...this means cash for the airports. Nothing more nothing less. There is a complex relationship between the FAA and a number of airports, where the Authority has the final word on safety, not the FAA. In our governments wisdom they have exacerbated this issue by introducing money and authourity to a realativly new NTSB, they have increased and redefined areas of operation and responsibility, and this has not been for the better. In the NY area many controllers, pilots, and concerned individuals that work in the aviation field are and have been for many years about the workload of aircraft into certain airspace. The justification the authourities use is that: " We haven't had any accidents, because of this issue, so we are going to continue to do business this way..." This is not the FAA viewpoint on this subject. In other words the agency you have trusted to ensure your flying safety, can not do it's job! The FAA has long said that certain airspace is needlessly and to the detriment of safety being overworked. But they don't have any power to change this current system. The approaches have long been a source of controversy in the SAn fran area, for years. But all you guys see is that one plane has crashed, I see a system wide problem, that is very difficult to fully explain. Again sorry if anyone took offense to the word stupid... C And I can't believe that these idots took the time to get stuff from the overhead bins and blocked the isles of the aircraft... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Like noise abatement landings? I am going to talk very little about CDA or their OTA approaches your point? Did Soia or the PRM at San Fran have something to do with this? Yes it very well could have...this was the original question with the coupled approach and the runway switch issue... If your point is that the port authority equipment and procedures exacerbated this mess, this would be a great observation... I understand there may be some ATC -(retired) personell that visit this site, perhaps they could address the abatement procedures there? Mostly they try to keep you out at sea at night and over the bay... If your pointing out that this place requests and places pressure on pilots to fly visual over the bridge, you would also be correct, this may turn out to be the nail in the pilots coffin so to speak. On the other hand this is a long debated point about san Francisco and their shitty distance between runways and parallel operations, combined with their equipment issues ,...this then points us in another direction....this is their issue and not the pilots, combine this with all of the automation and autothrottls if the authority did perform any system tests while that aircraft was on approach, they didn't have a chance! This is one of the major issues with high traffic airports and safety and has been going on for a long time. The NTSB is well aware of this issue and they have no mandate to make safety reccomondations of this type, the FAA has the mandate but not the authority to effectively make any changes in airport operations.... Same shit exsists in the NY area,..and we have been waiting for exactly this type of incident to happen there! So it's a lot easier and how fucking convieneint to blame some pilot for shit they have little control over!!! C C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

And what ???Getting whacked by lightning didn't have anything to do with that? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

http://www.bloodhoundranch.com/ideas.html C like this? or this: http://www.leba98.com/ Or this: http://www.sardoc.org/ Or this: http://www.rampartsar.com/SAR.htm I have to warn ya some, and I mean some, of these groups only use their dogs for finding people. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Next time or perhaps, can someone copy the vid, before they get taken down? C I would have liked to see this, just so that if ever our paths should meet, I could ask it a few questions???? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Cute cat... I would start walking your neighborhood, like your on a mission. Have a handful of flyiers with the cat picture on it, in case some neigbors get on the phone... Your looking for a blood hound... There are volunteer groups that do this, get on the phone, it is not going to be easy to find them...you have already found out about your local pd, try the fire department and the ambulance guys, you want to find the guy with the dog that no-one calls. Call your local animal shelter. I do remember some volunteer associations, try out of state to see if they know any in state people. In many parts of the country this is actually a hobby. To see who's dog is the best at finding things, there is an association, perhaps calling the national Kennel associations? Good luck C Don't give up... Something like this? http://www.bloodhounds.org/trailing/Introduction%20to%20Trailing%20ABC.pdf I don't know??? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Ya and who says the software was perfect? Perhaps they upgraded to Windows 8? All I'm say'n is that there is too much guessing and that's a highly automated aircraft. It wont let me upload the Landing section here.... But many of you should read it, in its entirety, before you rush to judgment... C I want to know this: "The Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System may be deactivated for approved non-normal procedures where use of flaps at less than normal landing flap positions are specified. A logbook entry is required." Please Director answere that.... This is just one of about 20 things that need an answere... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Last I looked you have that DHL flat rate cargo thing to the USA. Which I thought was under a hundred us. But the return trip is the killer, USA to your country is insane?? 25 Lbs. is about 600 - 700 but I'm just guessing? Can you take it as luggage on a passenger flight? What it is worth is dependent upon who wants it and if it passes the factory inspection, including the AAD? We don't know the condition? What is good shape to you might be different to them... It could be worth thousands! Can you give me the serial number of the container and canopies? That would help! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

You can't make ANY kind of 'average' speed & setting assumption as there IS no 'typical' trans-oceanic flight. Winds, altitude, holds, number of passengers & cargo...the weight difference can be tens of thousands of pounds. Your right, and I am making some assumptions, but mostly I am absolutely incensed with the NTSB comments of late... what they are leaking as compared with what they are not. Let's look at this another way: 4 pilots with a combined total of over 60,000 hours, most highly educated and all with recent emergency training. They forgot to flare??? Don't think so... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Oh really? My wife, who has 33,000 hours in large jets 'hand flys' them all the time... Yes...she flys the controls manually for all takeoffs and landings that are VFR. She must be stupid I guess... That's not what I meant and you know it... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I can't even begin to tell you how big a pile of "don't give a shit" I have about this particular issue, when there are much more important things to "Give a shit" about.. Apparently the Court in PA, corporate home of Hersey btw, agrees with you, , their fine was only 5 mill, and the fine was to be earmarked to the general fund and not to justice ( if the fine went to justice, it would have been used to fund future investigations.) So I take it that major price fixing in americka isn't of interest to you ? How about the 20,000 or so adults, now in their 70s' and up,... THE VICTIMS OF THE EASTERN AIRLINES COLLAPSE, that can't afford the 20% deductible or to pay their other home costs? How about the Enron, WorldComm, etc,...that have left over a million people without retirement or the ability to pay their basic needs? How about a changing society that the majority of belive that laws are there to protect the people and that government will right all wrongs? how about corporations that have taken over, just that no-one belives that it has already happened? When the laws of this nation are ignored in favor of the corporation's interests, givin the current supreme court decisions of the last ten,/ 20 years, ya your right candy bars probably don't deserve any mention... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

http://www.airlinesafety.com/faq/777DataFailure.htm Same: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~cmh7p/ietss07-777-4web.pdf Here is a typical example of the type of information regarding incidents on the internet, not quite accurate but close enough to do the job. For all of you really stupid people out there, you can not "hand fly" a large jet! Read the article so that you can get the briefest amount of information to process to get an inkling of the large number of systems that can fail that the pilot can do nothing about before you all start makin the kind of back seat, ill informed, judgments that you are doing! I chose that particular piece of internet dribble because of the authors reference to sim. training. It has gone unnoticed, by most, that actual hours was advanced by the NTSB in order to make some sort of public comment, or better said some kind of slander to make their point,... sim time is more important in this regard. It has not escaped the actual pilot community what the NTSB has leaked as to what they haven't leaked. There may in fact be pilot error, but until you start to understand the other factors and complexities of how and why including reading the PM for this aircraft your comparisons to your 152, your lack of current procedures and confusion regarding flying in general your not doing anyone any good. If you don't understand what I mean when I say a Vref for 20% of flaps in an approach configuration is about 124KTS at the weight that a trans-oceanic flight typically should be at when it arrives here, then basically fuck off! The aircraft didn't stall, the aircraft hit the ground...be precise here folks...it makes a difference... C Talk about bad driving: ""One of the deceased did have injuries consistent with those of having been run over by a vehicle," fire department spokeswoman Mindy Talmadge said." Survive an airline crash only to be run over by the fireman? But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Which does not work when flying a VFR approach. The ILS was inop, so there were hand flying it. It is pretty clear that the pilot tried to fly a stabilized approach and simply slowed too much. I'd be interested in seeing what the past aircraft he was flying's approach speed was. When they realized they were low, they tried to add power. But since a jet takes a second or two to spool up - It was not soon enough. Then they did the last thing the could and tried to pull up to slow the decent as much as possible.... It worked. If they had maintained the same profile, they would of most likely slammed into the sea wall with more than just the tail. There is no doubt that the pilots made a mistake. ***And please enlighten me as to how we are supposed to recognize static port failure while watching a LCD display? Same way you do it with steam gauges... You cross check other instruments. Also most large planes have secondary static ports.. You could switch to those to see what happens. In some planes the pilot and the co-pilot have separate static ports. So you could check your instruments with the other pilots. So there are ways to check. What part of "required to keep head in cockpit" do you not understand??? What part of there are no other instruments do you not understand? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

It's easy to see how that natural selection could take place. Anyone ever sue a home inspector for missing important faults in properties? One of the big reasons to have a home inspection is that they carry their own insurance. Get your own lawyer early on in this process. As some have pointed out many home inspectors are worth shit. They take a cheep course, sign a franchise for some cheep signs, and viola! They are in business! Make sure they have insurance. Check out their history with neutral parties that have used them in the past. Do yor own title search. In addition to the one your lawyer does... another point worth mentioning is that a common complaint and observation is that too many spend too much on immediate home improvments...save your cash and live there for a bit before you start going really broke. another point about your new neighborhood...drive around...talk to the neighbors...know and I mean know where every little thing in life is in relation to your new home,...schools, hospitals, police, fire, fire hydrant, drug dealers, supermarkets etc... you may want to find out about your services and tax rates as well... There are some statistics that show about 99 percent of first time home buyers do not speak with or are unaware of who their neighbors are or have done any legwork regarding their new neighborhood. These same studies show that 99 percent of people who sell within one year do so because they are dissatisfied with their neighbors and other issues that they were unaware of at the time of purchase. This is something that your realtor is aware of and something that they don't want you to know or to do on your own... Most realtors are going to show you their stuff first, if a home is listed with another realtor they discorage outside purchases! Be careful what you sign, and there is no reason to keep your realtor if you find property by your self. This is a business transaction and not a demonstation of how to spend 8 thousand because you think they desereve something for their time! spend a day driving around and a night listining to your new hood! Your realtor btw is not your friend and even if you hire your own, to allegedly represent your interest most of them don't have the experience and knowledge to be able to look out for your interests in the first place! They are commission sales people and want to make a sale! They are not contractors nor lawyers looking out for your interests! Before you start signing stuff... As so many have mentioned as well, most realtors are experts at telling you what you want to hear...In other words they are there to help you find your perfect home??? There are lots of homes and properties that will be just fine! It is a huge mistake to fall for the perfect home or just the right one, and if so many say that you need to snap this home up right away...this is the lingo to push you before you know the other side of the story... It's a buyers market, or it's a sellers market...this is bullshit rethoric designed to push you ....see it for what it is...and move on... Buying a home is not for those that just let everyone else do all the work, this is a recipie for pain. How proactive you are will pay for itself 1000 times over. and look out for sinkholes

Year of manufacture? How many holes? 1 cm is cause for concern. Location compared with a seam. General condition? Number of jumps? Post some pictures... Just relaying what the rigger next to me said..... And there is some information somewhere regarding criteria about the life of canopies somewhere, no one in the room can remember if it's from PD or not at the moment.... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I guess it's time someone started posting the Approach and landing procedures from that aircraft... There are many refrences to either pilot being required to "keep their head down." And please enlighten me as to how we are supposed to recognize static port failure while watching a LCD display? That point is worth mentioning again for those of you missing what I'm trying to point out: REQUIRED TO KEEP HEAD IN COCKPIT. Such is the total and complete faith in our modern airliners instruments and procedures.... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

You make a good point, one that will eventually hang this crew. On the other hand we are taught to trust our instruments again and again and again.... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Try sucking on this: http://business.financialpost.com/2013/06/06/criminal-charges-laid-against-nestle-canada-other-companies-for-chocolate-price-fixing/ I can't even find the American Justice departments stuff anymore, that's what caused some to bring this issue to my attention.... So now to find USA antitrust history youll need to actually do some work! Try going thru old WSJ issues at your local library and none of this raisies even an eyebrow with some of you??? I'm starten to feel like mel Gibson in that movie.... Such is American controlld media...stuff just disappears???? This part is incorrect, making the entire rest of your rambling... well, worthless. Do some reading, please: http://www.candyblog.net/blog/item/rising_cost_of_candy Ya ,ya, that makes a lot of sense, go to the company sponsored site for your info and ... What! you chose to ignore the criminal act that they were found guilty of??? Take your own and advice and do some thinking! What are you some kind of Milky way addict? C

It's old news that the Justice dapaarment has won a judgment under the Ricco acts and also for the anti competitive business acts, (Price fixing.) But fining companies that have James River Homesteads (meaning Washington connections.) fines of 5 million when they are a trillion dollar industry is redonkulous!!! DeFacto price fixing is when there is no incentive to compete in an open market. Why should I lower my prices when I can keep the same price and everyone pays it? At the wholesale level your $1.20 candy bar costs about 5 cents per hundred! That's right folks the markup on candy is over a million percent. Try to compete with this and the companies put "Pressure" on the wholesalers to raise you price! This makes candy one of the most profitable items in the store! So why can't a startup company take over the market? Cause Obama's and Bush supporters are major funding sources or the raw ingredients... One company controls sugar in americka! The justice deparment can break up the phone company, but touch the Cubans...Me thinks not,...WHY? Also with the demise of the mom and pop store, think Whalmart....you don't have a choice where yo can go to make your purchases! Think about this the next time you reach for a snickers bar! And what was the response to the fine? Well the M&M Mars company, recently increased their advertising revenue by 200 million, to spread the word and also to make sure the media in Americka didn't report the fine in the first place... funny how things work around here.... C Remember this when yo all try to stick your butterfinger in someone else's Milkyway??? personally I'm a Mounds type of guy.... But seriously the industry is sticken its Zagnut where only Milk duds should be....We should all be screaming O Henery at this one. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."