obelixtim

Yeah , but a student is usually jumping under slightly more controlled conditions, regarding wind speeds, turbulence, canopy size and sometimes has independant input via radio..... A TM (or prospect) supposedly, has better decision making skills. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Bill, I really like you... because your arguments are usually pretty well thought out. and very well put, and I absolutely agree with a lot of the sound advice you give on these forums..... But.... Old, doesn't automatically translate to unsafe. It just isn't so.....We were very concerned about looking after our own arses all that time, and looking after our less experienced friends as well. We weren't stupid. We knew what gear was good, and what was bad. We test jumped (unintentionally of course) lots of gear that proved to be bad. We got rid of quite a bit of it. You weren't around at the time, so I will cut you some slack. Long time ago, like 20 years ago, or more, before you knew anything about skydiving, there were lots of people around......skydiving....learning and assimilating lessons, and enjoying skydiving. All of us actually did shit loads of jumps.....and still do. We lived and jumped through the evolution of skydiving...from F & A gear to piggybacks, from rounds to squares, from solo style and accuracy, to RW, the invention of CRW, ripcords to throwaways and pullouts, Tandem skydiving, round to square reserves, student squares, radios, better AAD's, the evolution of PFF to AFF, ripstop nylon to F 1-11 to Zero P fabric. 7 cells to 9 cells and more, 220 sq foot canopies to sub 100's. Lots of new things about skydiving ...dangerously bad things sometimes, and some quite safe things. Some of that experience was gained through quite real pain. We weren't stupid, we had brains that worked...pretty damn well actually. We were able to figure out what was good, and what was bad. We saw people get injured, and die. We hated that. The benefit of that experience translates directly into what you see at the DZ today. I myself did lots of test jumps on radical new designs, and tried new techniques. It was interesting, challenging, and exciting.. As did lots of my fellow contemporaries, who for some strange reason, seem to agree with me on lots of these forums. And do you know something ?.....We've mostly never spoken or collaborated with each other...mainly because we have no reason to do so. Randomly it seems.....we seem to agree.... It pisses me off big time when someone comes on the forum and brazenly states that because we are older and a little more cautious, we are automatically stupid and dangerous, just because we disagree with their point of view, because they are hot, and current..... Of course gear is better these days....we are the people that MADE that happen. But some of the gear that was jumped at the time was perfectly safe....Thats why we kept jumping. We ditched a lot of gear that wasn't up to scratch... But a lot of the gear was good......and I would have no problem jumping it tomorrow. Of course we like the gear we have today. Of course we prefer it...its better!!!. But I understand why you would disagree.... You weren't there, and you simply don't know.... Newbies like you seem to think that everything today is somehow the result of some sort of mumbo jumbo magic that has nothing to do with the past. The disrespect shown to most of my contemporaries by todays hotshot know it all know nothings, who were still shitting yellow when we were out there doing it in very trying circumstances, upsets me. They've been around for very short time in the big scheme of things and have no knowledge of what went before. They've seen nothing during their short careers compared to the people who've been here since the 60'S and 70's, and are STILL here. They really know Jack Shit in the big scheme of things. Show some gratitude and respect...FFS. IF you know what that means... And I really HATE the way that dumb idiots manage to kill themselves today under perfectly good canopies. Some of those dickheads are REALLY current. Killing yourself under a perfectly good canopy as people do today...how REALLY STUPID is that. Explain that........ My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

One of my mates has more than 25 reserve rides....some of those were possibly not necessary, but he doesn't muck around if he has a problem...he trusts his reserve and EP's. We suggested he apply for a new "A" license for reserve rides only.....(He's got more than 8000 jumps logged). My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I doubt very much that this would have been a factor unless it was his wife. Brett would be highly motivated to try this anyway, without any extra minge benefits on offer.... And pertaining to the rider....how many people do 16 tandems as a passenger anyway??, unless going on the front for rating purposes....why hasn't she done some real skydiving??. Not good /confident enough??... Suggests to me her awareness of the potential outcomes of this jump was not that high. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I think that most people on here just think it was a dumb idea to take an inexperienced person on the jump. As did I. What was the point of that?. This could clearly be classified as a test jump. And test jumps are NOT the place for turkeys. You wouldn't put a glider pilot in a F16. I've known Brett since his father brought him to the DZ as a toddler. I trained him for his first jump and guided him throughout his jump career till he left NZ. I've seen many of his screw ups, (and yes, he's made a few) as have many others...and they have one common factor running through them.....a lack of careful forethought of ALL the possible outcomes. He's been damn lucky he's got away with all that he has, so far...... He also has a tendency to blame others if things don't go right.....I've already had several PM's from people I don't know who have experienced this reaction from him, proving that no, he hasn't changed...... Don't try to tell me, of all people that Brett did this for the benefit of anyone but himself.... And instead of putting up such a frenzied defence of his actions, why not tell him that this thread exists, and invite him to come online and explain to us all exactly his motivation and planning for this jump, because many of us can't really see the point of it. If he just wanted to try something new, why didn't he take Jonathon King on the front.....instead of some 16 jump sucker..... And yes, JK is one of my ex students as well....at least he would understand wtf is going on if things turned ugly. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

It can be stable and controllable at altitude, but you can get into big trouble close to the ground if you encounter turbulence. Thats something that a lot of people won't even think of when they are at altitude wondering if the canopy is worth staying with. The old "if in doubt, whip it out" adage comes to mind. Pretty sound policy over a long period of time. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I can imagine the discussion betwen them would have been reasonably animated. The cutaway or not decision would have been mutual, I would think. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I don't think so.......why would I do that?. And that somehow applies to me???... Sounds like a Darwin candidate for sure.....but I could tell you quite a few similar stories invloving jumpers of all abilities and currency. I'm sure Patrick de Guaydon was very current, but it didn't stop him making the error which led to his death..... I don't recall stating that currency was not important. But somene who has seen the sport evolve in terms of disciplines and equipment over nearly 40 years also has a knowledge bank that can't be discounted. Todays current wunderkind simply doesn't have that. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Brett can do things I can't, like many of my ex students. There are many things I can do that he can't. I have no problem with that. Or with Brett. I know him, and I know how he does things.....his enthusiasm often outweighs his good judgement. He's always been like that. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Balls. The odds would go only very slightly up if at all. I could jump a B 4 with a cheapo and 24 foot reserve with no AAD, alti or RSL tomorrow, and survive. Easily. Just as I did in 1974. Many times. Not the exact same rig of course, and my chances of a landing injury are slightly higher because I'm quite a bit fatter than I used to be, but my 5 hours of PLF training should take care of that. I'd be a lot more concerned about some current hotshot dumping in my face at 4000 feet, or killing me at 50 feet off the deck doing his swoop. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Not sure what you'd pay in Oz, but you can google some Aussie DZ's and find that out. A licence is is the only route,,,,It goes A, B, C, D, etc as you gain experience. And tell the Thai guys that they've been sprung..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Fly to another country. You'll get your license, and change...... Thats a ripoff price.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Never said it was BV.....just that I had an issue with a mod....it happened to be him... My point was simply that some of the mods have been badly bitten by the serious bug, and assign themselves respect that they sometimes haven't earnt, nor deserve. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Why are camels known as the ships of the desert????.Quote My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Well you didn't actually answer the question about which version you listened to. Specialists in cognitive development will clearly state that in humans, memory recall only develops after the age of 3. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Agreed.....BV had a problem with me defending myself from relentless attacks from the pro Israeli lobby in speakers corner, and backed that up with threats of banning. Of course I called him on it, and called him several nasty names as well, and invited him to ban me. "As you wish". was the response...... . ( I didn't really give him much choice if he had any balls) and he made it so.... That didn't actually affect my life for more than about a second. I was surprised not to be banned from the whole DZ.com site, but it wouldn't have bothered me in the least had that happened.. At the moment I can still post words of wisdom on several forums that can help people who want to learn....but I will never play the game of being politically correct. Got banned by Sangrio on about the day I signed up for daring to call a dead idiot an idiot. He let me off after about a month. I thought then that he over reacted.... The mods are OK for acting as filters for lots of bullshit, but they do seem to get a bit precious at times. I always thought BV was an OK guy, and he does speak sense most of the time. My opinion of him though, is pretty low. Had he banned me permanently, I would have respected him more. What I think of him now rhymes with the word "banker"!!!. Just my 2 cents worth.......... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

It all sounds a bit scammy to me. And big brother already knows everything, so you are just a wikileaks away from being exposed. With at least a billion or more email or internet users in the world, I'm not too worried that anyone actually gives a rats arse about me.... I'm just Mr Ordinary....I have a life to be getting on with. Don't stress...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Cheers. Wasn't trying to be a meanie. Good luck, and look after yourself, because in the big scheme of things, its the best policy. Take care, and don't be afraid to say what you think.... To anyone....... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Cry us a river..... You're a softcock....harden up a bit. No one said life has to be fair....its quite a long journey. I've always said: Look one year into the future, and assess whether this issue was even important. 99 times out of 100 you won't even remember it. You don't live in the squalor and hardship that lots of people in the world have no choice or option about. Your complaints are minor, short term irritations. Thats all. Get on with living.Quote My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Pffffttt.....thats not a wrap. Barely even scary.... If this chick freaked out about a video (and I assume she'd already done some skydive training) then her instructor should turn in his rating. But if she's such a pussy, she should go bowling as well.....with her instructor. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The newbies and "you old farts crew" don't seem to understand this trauma that many of us "oldies" have dealt with over our long careers....their turn will come... I've seen them carted away even when they've done everything correctly......the reaper takes no prisioners. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Congratulations Pat. Awesome achievement. Appreciated your books very much....started losing my turkey feathers once I had read your wisdom. Back in the student days getting information was a bit like pulling teeth. Your books and a visit to NZ by Al Krueger revolutionised RW back in the mid 70's for us Kiwis.... Thanks, and good luck for the next 50...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I remember back in the days when one of our riggers set his round reserve up backwards deliberately. His reasoning was that as it was likely that a reserve ride would find him going backwards in windy conditions, he would get the benefit of what little drive he could get, but would be able to turn the canopy around around in order to do a forward PLF on landing. On a regulr inspection of a reserve at a meet one time I found a packing pin still in a reserve. Would have resulted in a total. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

It was "the" film when I saw it in early 1974. Wings would have been about 76 I would guess. What about "Proof". "like a bb into dogshit"...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I had an AAD (FXC) serviced at the factory and fitted it back on a tandem rig....on the next jump the reserve popped and the TM had a two out......fortunately nothing eventuated apart from a bit of a rush for the TM. It turned out that during the service it had been reassembled incorrectly, and the opening shock caused it to come apart and pop the reserve. With a reserve, it pays to be confident in it, because its your arse on the line. Its your call. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....