obelixtim

215, 217, 220.....Its easy to miss posts....as I've done whilst replying in some cases. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

So did skyride pay up?. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I don't think they've been "debunked" all that well at all. No one has been able to tell me why, for instance its acceptable for the IDF to fire hundreds of WP shells into a densely populated Gaza city. No one!!!. Will you answer?. Over 300 children were killed in that 3 week period. Israel created 300 sets of parents who no doubt want to take up arms against it. And you know what?. I don't blame them if they do. The best we are going to get is stalemate in this argument I think. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

. . . all thi stime to work up a few more posts and yet I've looked at the vids and commented on them already....go back a few posts..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

One of my favourites, it sort of applies well to skydiving, but to any unknown situation really. Anyone guess whose quote this is?. "Come to the edge he said". "We are afraid, they replied". "Come to the edge he said". "We are afraid, they replied". "Come to the edge, he said". They came. He pushed. And they flew....... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

My opinion is based on unbiased information. Like live footage of the assault on Gaza city. The camera doesn't lie. I've accepted that some on the ships were prepared to die, I had not seen that info before. The IDF videos of the boarding, while showing the melee that ensued after the boarding, is only a snapshot of part of the event. The IDF video of the weapons "cache" I take with a big grain of salt. That "evidence" could easily be manufactured to support their account.... I ask again, why did these terrorists not use these weapons?. Surely they would have welcomed the chance to ventilate a few IDF personnel. And they had the chance no doubt. Why take a knife or a piece of railing to a gunfight!!!. The IDF have no interest in portraying any view of video or photos that conflict with their account, thats why I asked if there was video of the assault from the POV of the people on the boat, and whether it showed a different angle on events. I am sure there is video, but if the IDF took possession of it all, why not show it if it supports their account?... When I've seen IDF spokesmen on TV denying the use of WP weapons in Gaza, with WP shells exploding in the background I have to ask if they've been to the Comical Ali school of propaganda. And when I've come up with valid questions on here, I've yet to see any answers to change my opinion. Just mindless parroting that I am a fool who blindly supports Hamas and the destruction of Israel. I prolly have more first hand knowledge of Israel, Israelis, and the Middle East in general than most of my detractors. I say again, Israel, by its overreactions, has changed my POV quite a lot. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I am a little sceptical of a video of weapons displayed by the IDF after the event. The reasons are simply that at that point the IDF were in serious damage control because of the PR disaster that had befallen them. I don't think the IDF are averse to distributing a little propaganda of their own when it suits their cause, and they had some damge limitation exercise to conduct in this case.... And if they did have such weapons (firearms) why did they not use them?. I don't recall any Israelis suffering gunshot wounds. And why do you have the idea that I am supporting fanatics, Islamist or otherwise?. I've said NOTHING about supporting Hamas, Al Quaida or any other fundamentalist nutters out there. That includes fundamentalist Christians, Jews or any other bunch who claim to have a mandate from God. What I do think, is that Israel in a lot of cases, reaps what it sows, and some of its policies will not bring peace or stability to the Middle East, now or forever. There is a LOT of injustice perpetrated against the Palestinian population, and you don't have to be a supporter of Hamas or any other organisation to recognise that. Israel has managed to change my view of the situation by its own actions. What really did it was the firing of white phosphorus shells into one of the most densely populated places on the planet. In my opinion that wasn't war, it was a crime against humanity. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

"One important key to success is self confidence. An important key to self confidence is preparation". Arthur Ashe. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

And you have first hand knowledge of these countries as well I presume?. Does Saudi and the UAE count?. Because a lot of the money for Jihad comes from Saudi, you know the Saudi that is propped up by the US. And seeing where the Nazis did their stuff was pretty graphic. And I have now watched a few of the video clips and read some of the articles, no doubt a small minority of the 700 flotilla participants did have connections and expressed a desire for martyrdom. However I think in a few cases they were speaking figuratively, as in expecting the IDF to actually sink the ships as they crossed the demarcation line, and were willing to give their lives if that is what it took. It doesn't seem to me they were preparing to attack Israel, however the boarding gave them an opportunity which some of them took. One question, if they really were ready to wage war, why were they so poorly armed?. I would have thought they would have taken firearms and explosives at least. Yet the IDF found none of these things after the event. Its not as if terrorists don't have access to weapons. These were not very well organised or armed if that was their plan. And if the IDF had not tried to board, their opportunity to become martyrs would not have occurred. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Have you ever VISITED the Middle East or Israel specifically with a small group of people fighing to live in their ancestral homeland amid MANY times their numbers who support daily attacks on them.... that has a FAR greater bearing on this conversation.. *** Actually I have. I spent some time training Israeli SF soldiers to skydive. Good enough?. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Actually I've been in Europe for most of the last 10 years, and its where I've watched both the Gaza assault and the flotilla incident. I cannot see how pictures and videos what I've witnessed on TV can be anything other than what they show. I'll see if I can find the video you've posted, because as I said I'll comment on it then. And NZ does actually get international TV channels. Lots of US ones by the way.Quote My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Que?.Quote My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Have you posted a link like I asked?. I'd like to see it. And I'll comment on it then. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Ghandi???. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Give us a break!!. The only one who has been fooled hee certainly isn't me. Such statements make you look really stupid. People have a brain and can rationalise their arguments. Have you ever visited Auschwitz btw?. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Um....how can you possibly know what influences me. I've stated clearly that I'm only reacting to events I've seen on TV......BBC, CNN, etc. I'm not aware that Hamas controls TV content. Maybe they do and I've been completely fooled. Can you not argue your point rationally?. I certainly don't see any evidence of it, just personal slurs. And repeated parroting of a single POV. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The ships left Turkey and Malta under the same flags they were flying when the incident happened. This was on television in the days before they left. I'm not aware of Hams having a navy, or ships of any kind in fact. In international waters there is a law that confers the right of free and unimpeded passage. Had Israel waited till the ships approached their waters they had the right to fire a shot across their bows to stop them, and if the ships then proceeded, to fire on them. There was NO NEED to board, and if the soldiers hadn't tried that, there would have been no incident, and no deaths. That wasn't my quote. I'm pretty sure the people were vetted. If the commandoes came down the ropes firing guns in the dark, paintball or real, it would be natural for the crews to put up some sort of defense. The fact that they used materials to hand for that defense shows the defense wasn't premeditated, otherwise the soldiers would have suffered more casualties. The only gun the guys on the ship had came from an Israeli commando. And any commando who allows his weapon to be taken from him in such a situation would surely face court martial in most armed forces. The dead guys weren't around to defend their actions after the event. Who said they were terrorists?. Israel?. Of course they would say that in the attempt to defend the indefensible. Thats what they ALWAYS say. The event was a disaster for all parties, Israel included. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Hamas has had NO influence on me. At all. I have supported Israels right to exist all my life. But its actions have caused me to reassess my POV. And I resent very much being labelled a fool. I react to what I see on live TV...like WP shells bursting all over Gaza for weeks. Footage of wrecked schools, hospitals, and essential infrastructure like sewage and water plants. Reports from UN personnel ON THE GROUND. Between 1100 - 1400 deaths (mostly civilian) in Gaza, against 13 Israeli deaths. Most of the bleeding was done by the people of Gaza. Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut. Exactly the same overreaction seen with the flotilla. No Israelis died, yet the victims who did are labelled as terrorists... But you keep on defending the indefensible. It obviously makes you feel good. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He won't be stupid enough to confront her face to face, prolly try to put a bullet in her back from distance. Thats how cowards work..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Small minds discuss people. Average minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

It is NOT!!!. There is no war zone in international waters, and the ships were civilian, Turkish (a friend of Israel at that point) and Irish flagged. So far as I am aware there is no formal declaration of war between any of these nations and Israel. And yet you and other apologists are quite happy to say they were Hamas and PLO and about to wage war on Israel. How about Israel backing off a little and ceasing to treat these people as sub human. Thank you for making judgements on people you don't even know. and whose motivation for supporting the people in Gaza is based solely on the desire to see peace in the region and do not like to see Israel behaving in the same ruthless way the Nazis did. But its OK in your eyes for the IDF to fire thousands of white phosphorus shells into the same innocent civilians. Do you know what WP does?. And that says it all about you. Exactly the same level of fundamentalism and ignorance you accuse Hamas of being...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The problem is that the little toe rag will probably get his toxic family to help him square things up. She'll spend the rest of her time looking over her shoulder. As such she will not be able to relax. I hope she put the bullet somewhere that prevents him reproducing..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

"Life is tough, but its tougher when you're stupid." - John Wayne. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Actually no, I didn't, all I saw was video of activists prior to the departure specifically saying they were non violent. I invite you to post a link. And as for those attacking me rather than dealing with the questions, I am NOT anti Israel nor pro Hamas. I have many Israeli friends. The whole situation stinks, ands Israel does not help itself or the situation with its actions. I've been to villages in Southern Poland and seen the mass graves on the edges of town where the local Jews were rounded up and shot. There are still no Jews in those villages 65 years after the war ended. I've visited Auschwitz, a more creepy place on the planet I have never seen. How many of you who are attacking me have done that journey?. Its easy to criticize wrapped in your all powerful US security blanket. I am well aware of, and support Israels reasons for existing. However I do not subscribe to the theory that they can commit whatever crime or atrocity they like just because it happened to them. Firing hundreds of white phosphorus shells into civilian areas in Gaza, or boarding ships in INTERNATIONAL waters and killing people is NOT justified in any way, when alternatives are available. Paint ball guns????. What a crock. Obviously you believe the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese. You've swallowed the Israeli propaganda, hook, line and sinker. The Israelis have lost a lot of sympathy and support in western nations over the last few years. Ask yourself why that may be. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

We used to have an old British X - type Harness and container with a silk canopy with no mods, which would occassionally get jumped, don't know what happened to it. It was WW2 vintage. It looked good in the air but oscillated like hell from having no mods, landings could be heavy if you caught a downswing. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....