obelixtim

I'm asking questions which you seem to find offensive, hence resorting to your comments. Why does the IDF not release videos and photos taken by the flotilla crews?. Perhaps they show the IDF members fired first and the flotilla crews were defending themselves....as some of the flotillas members allege. The ships of the flotilla were NOT full of people intent on martyrdom.....there were many peace activists from many different nations. They were intent on delivering aid, which was what the Israeli authorities found when they inspected the ships. The only video seen was that issued by the IDF, which conflicts with the reports of some of those on board the ships. As such video of the incident only shows one POV. I am not the kind of person who blindly swallows one line of argument. I THINK the IDF overreacted, and the disproportionate casualty figures during the incident suggest this to me. I'm aware the Israel apologists will never see any other POV, and that is one of the reasons Israel will live in paranoid fear for ever. Fanatics on both sides are entrenched. The US could do a hell of a lot more to bring an end to the conflict, but it just doesn't seem to be in the interests of certain sections of US society. The world outside Israel and the US continue to shake their heads at the ongoing nonsense. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Nice pics.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Immediately prior to the boarding, were the ships called upon to stop by the Israeli navy?. I thought the boardings caught them by surprise. As for video/photographic evidence, why were communications jammed and all cameras and recording equipment carried on the vessels confiscated by the IDF, unless they had something to hide. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Winston Churchill was pretty quick on the uptake. Two of my favourite putdowns are attributed to him, both to the same woman MP who hated him, and I think the feeling was mutual. One time she berated him loudly with: "Mr Churchill, you are disgusting, you are drunk". To which he replied: " And you madam, are ugly, but in the morning I shall be sober".... Another time she said, "Mr Churchill, if you were my husband I would poison your coffee". His reply: " Madam, if I was your husband, I would drink it". My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

But in this case, the flotilla was NOT in Israeli waters, nor had it crossed the line...and these were not military ships carrying a military force. And their intentions were quite clear. An assault force does not broadcast its intentions to the world. Besides I'm sure the Israeli navy was more than capable of stopping a flotilla of merchant ships, as soon as it crossed that line...a shot across the bows would have sufficed if the flotilla actually breached the line. Spin it any way you like. These ships were in international waters. Israel was out of line. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Armed men boarding ships in international waters is commonly known as piracy. Thats what they call it off the horn of Africa. Killing people on those ships when they had no business boarding them in the first place could well be called murder. Israel does itself no favours by these actions. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

There is a yellow and black UT 15 canopy on the bottom of Lake Taupo in NZ. Its been there for about 30 years, after a chop. It was a dog. Best to let sleeping dogs lie!!!. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I think if you look at overall fatality statistics, you will find that inexperienced jumpers probably feature heavily compared to experienced jumpers. I think time in the sport is prolly as important, if not more important than jump numbers alone. But time in the sport generally equates to high jump numbers. Experienced jumpers generally have higher awareness levels simply from having been involved in the sport longer. You get to see, hear and discuss skydiving in more detail over a longer period of time. A lot of learning and experience is accumulated on the ground. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Scatter groceries all over the planet...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

When you learn about it, a lot of the irrational becomes rational. It is dangerous when you are careless, overconfident and stupid. A lot less so if you learn as much as you can, and follow the rules, trying to do everything correctly. But once out the door, you are on your own (even with AFF) and have to save your own life. It is pretty safe when you get down to it, but lots of skydivers get to be pretty old. Ya pays ya money, ya takes ya chances. Life is a terminal disease anyway....... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Common problem for first jumpers. They breathe in, and because of the rush forget to breathe OUT. They keep trying to take breaths when their lungs are altready full, and consequently can't "breathe". Free fall, no matter what speed does not "suck" the air from your lungs. There is another thread on this somewhere. Just breathe out....thats why the screaming advice works. Breathing in the air is just the same as breathing on the ground. Breathe normally. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Yep, you can plan and figure it all out, but no matter who you are and whatever your experience and ability, if you open the door when the reaper knocks, thats about it. Shit happens. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Fail....... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Lesson number 4: When you are at the bottom of a hole, stop digging. Lesson number 5: When shown a ledge to step on to get out of the hole, listen! Not possible, he's obviously deaf..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Lesson number 4: When you are at the bottom of a hole, stop digging. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

My point is there are prolly many similarities in fatalities whether skydiving or diving. Gear failure exacerbated by any or all of the following. Inexperience, stupidity, overconfidence, carelessness, lack of planning, failure to follow basic safety rules, lack of awareness, poor decision making, panic, poor maintenance, departure from accepted good practice, inappropriate equipment. . Gear failure alone doesn't automatically mean death, but is usually part of the chain of events. Applies to many sports. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

A lot do though, its pretty difficult to breathe water. And any deep dive is pretty risky if you have a gear failure. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I'll let that crack go. Its beneath contempt. FYI I have trained quite a number of Israelis to skydive over the years, including some of their SF boys. Most were pretty good blokes, and some are still good mates. Doesn't mean I agree that firing WP ordinance into civilian areas is right, whatever the provocation. I know a few Israelis who agree with me. Israel does itself no favours with its actions. I'm done with this, its pointless getting into a shitfight when positions are entrenched. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Scuba diving, ski jumping, rock climbing...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Are you saying its OK to return fire with WP. Onto civilians. Who didn't have WP to fire back. Seemed like pretty much continuous return fire for the duration of the conflict. Literally hundreds of shell and bomb bursts, all over the city. All from IDF. All before the eyes of the world live on TV. Didn't see much going over the wall from Hamas at the time. And I believe the use of WP is outlawed against civilian targets. It is a horrible weapon at any time. Remind me of the casualty stats from both sides during the Gaza conflict. Pretty heavily in favour of Israel, and a reaction out of all proportion. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Its definitely risky if you mix stupidity with skydiving, just as it is if you mix stupidity with any other activity.... Having said that, you can do everything right and still die. If you do everything right and are NOT stupid, its relatively safe. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I think what we watched every night on our TV screens a year or so ago with the IDF firing white phosphorus shells into Gaza, indiscriminately injuring and killing the civilian population said it all about Israel. This after taking out a refugee camp in South Lebanon a few years ago. They lost any moral high ground they had right then, and deserve no sympathy at all. Its not going to stop until they stop. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Just remember that every skydiver you see, read and hear about, who are not doing their first jump have been where you are. Jump number 2. Been there, done that!. Once you are out the door your fear will be gone. You'll be busy becoming aware of a lot more things that prolly passed you by in the adrenalin rush of your first jump. The key to it all is to remember to think clearly in freefall. Your awareness levels will go up quickly. Try to get as many jumps in as you can in a relatively short time. One or two a week is too few to really kill the anxiety you feel, and just prolongs it. But it will go. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The death defying daredevil image did a lot of PR damage to our sport, and took a hell of a lot of time and effort on the part of many individuals to overcome, if it ever did. _______________________________ That quote was not specific to him. When I started there were quite a few nice people involved. But there were also a bunch of arseholes whose behaviour and attitude was uncivilised, to put it mildly. Strutting around putting down anyone with less jumps than themselves, and thinking nothing of getting shitfaced after jumping and trashing and abusing facilities we shared with other aviators. It was very difficult to get aircraft and airfields to jump at in those days because skydivers had a reputation for wrecking things. It took many many years to repair some of the damage they did, and the PR job still goes on. Todays skydivers basically have planes and facilities on tap because of the people who made a huge effort to change things. I think that gives them the right to put some hotshot in his place when he oversteps the mark. Bill is out of line letting his personal historical gripes override the efforts of people who care for the sport. I have personally introduced over 10,000 solo jumpers to the sport. That doesn't give me the right to slag the efforts of others who try to keep the inexperienced alive. And I WILL fire a few shots at anyone who tries to do so. No matter what they've done before. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

So, what did you do about it?. Could it not just have been as simple as a bad spot?. If you had proof it was deliberate/intentional, you must have had options to deal with it. It sounds like you were the victim of a well organised, co ordinated conspiracy. Apart from petty jealousy and minor points scoring, I didn't think skydivers were as organised as all that, way back then.... And I'm still not sure how you can reconcile your experience way back then to telling people today to ignore good advice from experienced people today, who have no axe to grind apart from wanting the best for everyone INCLUDING the idiots. Because believe me, there are plenty of idiots out there, I've dealt with more than my fair share. You seem to be tarring all of todays keen DZO's and instructors with the same brush as the people you say wronged you badly. I resent that. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....