obelixtim

Just on that point..... Its my opinion that once the damage has occured, little further damage to the canopy is likely to happen. Parachutes don't just "disintegrate" like a wet biscuit. Thats why they are constructed the way they are, with panels, and seams, which provide pretty effective reinforcement for just such a scenario.... Once the initial "explosion" has occurred the damage is generally done. I can recall doing a test jump one time on just such a blown canopy, just to see what would occur, and after a terminal opening, the canopy suffered no further damage. (I weigh around 100 kilos btw, and I chopped the canopy after riding it around and seeing how it reacted to various toggle inputs. It behaved remarkably well.). Not saying that further damage can never occur, but it showed that generally, "disintegration" is unlikely. Its another story landing a damaged canopy, again, its the effects of turbulence close to the ground that can give you quite an adrenalin rush (tried that one time too, through simple stupidity....not recommended). My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I would be very cautious about this issue, because it could influence a lot of inexperienced people who dont know any better. It would be interesting to know how many people world wide have been killed over the years because they tried to get stable before pulling their reserve and running out of time. I would wager that it would be quite a lot. Back in the days the rule was simple. Cutaway then pull the reserve, do NOT worry about stability, because its really stupid hitting the ground stable with your reserve still packed. Get something out is still a valid adage. I still think this is a sound policy to follow and would result in more lives saved than lost. As for handles that cant be found....get rid of them. Bouncing because you dont want linetwists..... Really stupid reasons to die. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

To a (non jump) pilot. "If riding in a plane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming." My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Tiger. Who would that be?, My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

A claymore would have a little more impact..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

As the others said ... relax. The best way to do this is not to worry about a "hard" arch, as this just encourages rigidity. This will cause you to bounce around in the air. You shouldn´t be fighting with the wind, just go with it. Your body is the heaviest part of you, and gravity will sort out the falling part. Its most important to let your arms and legs relax, and the best way to do that is to let the wind blow them back above your body. If you can imagine your hair blowing backwards in the wind, just let your arms and legs blow back in the same way. You`ll automatically fall stable, straight down. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Yeah, you just have to tell them that if the plane breaks up in mid air you can open a parachute, but if your parachute doesn't work you can't open a plane.... And that man wouldn't have gone into space if it wasn't for the parachute...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Took you a while to reply to that particular post Bart.... Now where did I say that?. Nothing better than a good argument. But good to see you catching on!!. Yeah but one or two of your facts weren't exactly accurate, were they?. And your opinion, while valid for you, didn't seem to convince a few of the doubters on here to change their POV. You seemed to be digging a bit of a hole for yourself, thats all. We weren't attacking Australia here, which your defensive reaction seemed to suggest. We questioned the wisdom of this particular event, and the wisdom of the TM involved. Knowing the guy a lot better than you gave me good reason to comment. The gung ho attitude is fine in its place, but putting another person at risk is most definitely not. And that was the concept you seemed to have difficulty grasping. Anyway, as you correctly point out, its good to have differences of opinion, because in the case of skydiving in particular, its what has caused the sport to continue to evolve...All ideas are valid, but some turn out good, some not so good. There might be a place for tandem wingsuiting in the future, but I don't think this particular episode was handled very cleverly. Anyway, cheers, let us know the result of the DOS's investigation. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Jumping in the rain..... painful....like jumping into a prickle bush, was the serious advice we students were given way back then....because the shape of the raindrops and the slow speed they were falling compared to freefall, meant you were landing on the pointy part on top of the raindrops, and after landing they would be all stuck in your face..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He obviously didn't know about the good old "spit" test, we used to talk about back in the good old roundie days. If you are under canopy and wondering about your descent rate, lob a big goobie into space. If it falls below you, you are OK. If it goes up.....cutaway.... Make sure you a are not facing into the wind, or it'll come back in your face...although under a ramair you might want to lob it out to one side.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Skydiving is full of psychopaths...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Need to sit on the edge and rotate (twist around) sideways as far as they can (trying to get chest into the prop blast.) Legs dangling back..so they are sittin right on the edge of the left bum cheek, Head up and back looking into the top corner of the door frame. Should be now in as positive body position you can get. Left had down on the edge of the doorsill, and on the "GO" they push down hard with their left hand and launch themselves fully around into the propblast, and into the arch..... (think vaulting over a fence with one hand on top of a post taking your weight as you do so). Get direct bags, otherwise you will at some stage have a student on their back with a pilot chute trapped around them. Saw a fatality that was directly attributal to 206 exit, and pilot chute assisted rig. Always scary to watch. 206 is not a good airplane for SL exits. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Admit it, you just make people sick........ My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

You ARE aware, of course that if you use a phone in the air all the planes will fall out of the sky...... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Chuck Berry was pretty keen to do it, but that was a couple of years ago, don't know what the story with him is now. Are you a reporter?. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I'm assuming it is in the context of peeling the cutaway handle from the velcro holding it in position, then punching to effect the cutaway... The velcro holds the handle in posion quite tightly, especially when new, and just trying to punch before peeling can result in a very hard pull. Try it..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Ah....the APF D o S is obviously upset at not being invited to go on the front, thus missing out on a chance for glory..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I, for one, welcome our new amphibian overlords.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

There is a great quote for this...... "Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience". I think I've said everything I need to. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

In 1994 I was approached by a guy who was in his 70's. He asked if I could possibly train a group of 20 to do a solo jump, to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the jump into Arnhem (Operation Market Garden) in 1944. These guys were all in their 70's, the oldest was 82. All had served in the Parachute Regiment or SAS, and one was an ex member of the 101st Airborne division. Some had jumped into Sicily, some had jumped into Normandy, most had jumped into Arnhem or Nijmegen. One, (a medic) had done jumps into Greece, North Africa, Sicily, Normandy and Arnhem, without a weapon. My reply was simple, if they went through my first jump course and satisfied me that they could handle the ground training, no problem. They had approached the military, and another civilian (ex military) operater with the same request and their request to do a solo was denied, as was the same request from their colleagues in Australia, the US, Canada, and the UK. Too old......( I know a few were allowed to do tandems in other places). I was criticised in some quarters for allowing it, (apparently they were too old, too senile, not competant) but my feeling was that these were big boys, and if thats what they wanted, who was I to say no. One of them did not pass my solo training to my satisfaction, but I allowed him to do a tandem. The rest were some of the best students I ever trained, because they listened and did exactly what I asked of them....perfectly. The other 19 all did a solo static line jump and handled it easily. Some carried talismans that they had carried into battle 50 years previously. One wore his battle smock that he'd kept all those years. They were absolutely stoked. It remains, to this day, one of the highlights and priveliges of my life and skydiving career to have the opportunity make this happen. I felt very humble, knowing the history of these units. Meeting these guys just blew me away. To those who say that people like Dick Winters should not be remembered on this board, I say shame on you. You are not fit to lick their boots. I salute all of these guys who jumped into battle, who lost many of their friends in the process. The after jump celebration was huge....they made sure I got really shitfaced......., bloody old buggers...

It funny when a student lands and says they couldn't hear the radio, you give it a test and it work fine, then their response is..."yeah, but I could hear you talking to the others"..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

OK, roger that..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I think thats what we've been asking for....facts. Can you provide some, or are you just going to keep up the repetative hyperbole about how good Brett is, and how no one seems (in your opinion anyway) to have the right to question the wisdom of this jump. Firstly, was this done as a test jump, a stunt, or for some other reason, because frankly its hard to see any point in it apart from a "lets make a name for myself by doing this first" desire for glory. What was discussed and postulated prior to the jump vis a vis potential problems and solutions, actions to be taken......i.e, a list of "what ifs". And "what else"?.... I have a number of questions I would have posed prior to such a jump, and I'd be very interested to see Bretts pre jump planning to see if he's considered some of the things I have thought of. Secondly, what is the justification for exposing another individual (who really was playing the part of a lab rat) to the unknown?. Hell, we already know that going to tandem terminal for example, is not a wise thing to do. It would also be nice to see some post jump comments and analysis which any good test jumper should be able to provide. What did he learn that everyone can benefit from?. Do's and don'ts, etc etc.... True, I have......like others, "what was the point of this jump" sprang to mind. Its difficult to come up with one. Test jumps, stunts, and tandems for that matter, are not just another jump. None that I'm aware of. The "prejudice" comes from knowing just a little bit about potential negative outcomes when conducting a test or stunt jump, of any sort. Also "prejudice" comes here from him exposing another individual to the unknown, made worse by the fact that that individual had VERY limited experience. The "prejudice" also comes from experience picking up the pieces when things go wrong... Why didn't the director of safety volunteer to play the guinea pig role if he thought it was such a good idea. Nothing could have gone wrong could it?. Your D o S's approval for this jump seems to be at variance with the majority of opinion of people on this board, many who have long experience and wisdom of all things skydiving, including the testing and development of safe systems and methods. In fact, in a round table discussion with your D o S, I suspect that this jump, as it eventuated, would have been vetoed. But......they got away with it....so its all good....isn't it?. As I am, and have been many times over, with many of them. I'm not convinced about this one though..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Am I missing something here?. Seems to be a reply to a missing post......smells like a moderaters axe.... Oh well.....ho hum.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Fine if that was the case, but wind conditions can change between takeoff and exit....and I'm not sure if many people in a cutaway situation would be consciously thinking or factoring possible wind speeds on the ground when making the decision. Trees are not the only things that can generate turbulence.....in fact you can be many miles from the source of turbulence.... Not sure if we are aware of the wing loading on this particular jump, but the OP suggested "two big guys". Of course the experienced jumper is better able to fly the canopy... No where did I suggest that the TM in this case made an incorrect decision....it was his call, he was there. The safe thing to do in this situation is simply to make a decision, either way and stick to it, as these guys did. I was simply making the comparison that tandems often operate in conditions which are a bit more extreme than students, and fair enough too....the TM is an experienced jumper, after all. In this case it worked out fine.....but as some others have pointed out here, it is well worth discussing some of the variables that might have resulted in a different decision or outcome. This thread has no doubt provided good food for thought.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....