kevinwhelan

Yes the thread has drifted into a safe v not safe because I was told in a number of posts that skydiving was not safe. What my sidenote said was : I never said at any point in that post that skydiving was safe. I wondered if people knew more people hurt on the roads or hurt in skydiving, and wether this had any relation to how they perceived the relative risks. It was your reply that first said Skydiving is not safe That is why I went back to my sidenote on the use of the word safe This was the only opinion I offered in that post This is my point, and from that saying skydiving is safe or not safe has no real value as "safe" is hardly ever used in it's fundamental state. I just dont think it offers anything to a thread when you get a lot of posts telling someone that skydiving is not safe. Normaly 'not safe' implys don't do it. To me when you say skydiving is not safe it's kind of like saying to someone don't do it. "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

I picked driving because that is the most common analogy I have heard. I actually think skydiving is far more dangerous than driving. In fact I think it is the most dangerous thing I have ever done, well apart from a few drunk moments This is exactly what I mean. Nothing is really safe. So we either not use the word or we define it in relation to its context. As in, I would say a wingloading of 1:1 is safe for a student but 2:1 would not be safe. Everyone seems happy enough to say skydiving is dangerous. But so is everything else. So this statement really has no meaning if taken literaly. Danger must be viewed in context. To go back to my ladder. Climbing a ladder is dangerous, but if some of the rungs are missing you would say the ladder is dangerous. But if it is in good condition and properly used you would call it safe. My point came from a thread where this was said Now while I think this is a bit strong worded, It got me thinking about our use of the word 'Safe' We use it all the time in every day life " will my car be safe there?" It is a relative term anything can be considered to be safe. I think skydiving is safe compared to base jumping "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

As a general reply to everyone who has answered my post in the last while, I would like to make a few points. I never said skydiving was safer than driving I don't believe that that skydiving is a low risk activity what I do believe is that if someone says that skydiving is safe, depending on context, they may be correct, and should not automaticlly be assumed to be deluding themselves. I posed this in the form of a poll to get people to think about its relative danger. I don't think any skydiver believes it is a risk free activity, but that is not to say it is unsafe. I wish I could reply in more detail to all posts but because of time zone difference its getting late here and I have a few more things to do before bed. "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

This I agree with completely It would be stupid to say it was safe to someone thinking about starting in the sport. But as I said in reply to wendy , in a conversation between skydivers saying it is safe dose not mean you don't understand the risks. I have often hear people say that certain things would make a jump unsafe implying that without that it is safe. This is not to say that the jump would then be without risk. But that safety is given the highest priority. Like when a student asks his instructor " is it safe for me to jump this canopy" He is not asking will I be jumping without risk "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

I totally agree with you. The whole thing is just semantics. But I don't think its correct that every time someone uses the word Safe on these forums that we should assume that they don't understand the risks involved. "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

I couldn't agree more with you, that not keeping the dangers in mind can cause skydiving, or for that matter almost any activity, to become unsafe. No because not everything that can be done has been done. This I would call safe What would you call safe? So do I. But I don't think that the word safe has no place in a conversation about Skydiving "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Good point about the time spent doing each activity. But I wanted to consider each in terms of engaging in the activity or not. This is the statement that I don't agree with. Before everyone bites my head off let me explain. In my job I often work at heights. If I am to climb a ladder to 30 ft I will first make sure that it is 'safe'. Now working at 30 ft above the ground is not without danger so by definition it is not safe in the literal sense. But we normally apply the term 'safe' if all that can be done to mitigate danger is done. I think that in these terms skydiving is safe. I do know the risks involved and am usually prepared to accept them. I have stayed on the ground when those risks got too high for me , wind, type of jump proposed ect. So my definition of safe goes back to the ladder. If someone asked me "is climbing that ladder safe?" I would say yes "is it without danger?" No I just get the feeling that sometimes people change their meaning of 'safe' when they are talking about skydiving, Not that they perceive more risk than I do "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Safer than what? "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

I know that, thats why I picked the same number of people that I know that do each "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

In every post I read, when someone says that skydiving is save, they get jumped on. The most common argument is that driving is as, or more dangerous, than skydiving. Out of a sample of 50 skydivers and 50 nonskydivers that I picked at random. I just wrote a list of the first people that came to mind. More were hurt on the road. any thoughts on this? has it any statistical relevance? As a side note I think the argument of weather something is "safe" or not is a bit silly as it is relative it is like the question "is it far?" "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Didnt post it in Incidents Because it's not confirmed that there was an Incident "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Watched a very interesting program 'ancient Chinese Inventions' where they say Chinese acrobats were using basic parachutes thousands of years ago. Also they had a wooden toy that was basically a propeler on a stick that flew like a propeller "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Hearing rumours of this. Not sure exactly when it is supposed to have happened. Can anyone confirm or deny this? "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

When I went back after just over a year it was on the same load as a friend was doing her first tandem. When we were geared up she came over and said how nervous she was."Your nervous" I said " look at me" I couldn't stop my hand from shaking. nerves went when the door opened, and as I jumped out All I could do was shout " I love this shit" Its natural to be nervous after a layoff but if you can do this jump you will know why it's worth the risk. Also I think the more you understand the dangers the worse your fear is. I think that if first time jumpers understood everything that could happen very few would jump "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Hi I just did a search for graphics on this forum and it turned up some good results. For some strange reason I can't copy the ling to give it to you directly "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Sorry my mistake So (and cutaway if one doesn't have an RSL). should read (and cutaway if one has an RSL). "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

I hope you are not mistaking about the function of an rsl. This statement makes me think that you believe that the rsl will perform a cutaway for you if you pull the reserve. Please tell me this is not what you think. "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

I am not from the company, but jump a teardrop on which I have had 3 cutaways with an rsl attached. The lanyard goes from the reserve pin and has an eye in the other end . the reserve ripcord is first passed through this eye and then into the housing to the reserve loop. when the risers depart the rsl pulls the reserve ripcord directly. On all of my mals I had a grip on the reserve handle. I pulled the handle each time but would say I could have been beaten by the rsl. I never felt anything to suggest that the handle was pulled in a dangerous way, but rather the eye on the lanyard just slipped off over the end of the reserve ripcord. Now I don't know what would happen if I didn't have the handle in my hand> Would the rsl pull the handle with it, or would the velcro hold it because of the direction of the pull? I would be interested to know if there is any reliable way to test this on the ground. "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Where I trained on Static line, we all used to help around the DZ. One thing was gearing up first time jumpers. Before you were allowed to do this the CCI would take you aside and I remember one of the things impressed upon all us 20 jump wonders was, "You are not an Instructor, if you are asked any question the only answer you give is, you will have to ask your instructor." I think this policy stopped a lot of bad advice being given out. "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Oh I agree with you. But the original question was only about numbers. Not, how many jumps and what else is needed to be considered experienced? "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

I think 500 because that is when you can become a tandem instructor, then you are responsible for another persons life on each jump . I wouldn't like that this was the case if most people thought the TI was inexperienced "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

How did the jump go? "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

This can very easily be done The problem with the word 'safe' is in its definition from the dictionary Safe... free from harm or risk Nothing in life is free from risk, so the word safe then has to take on a more personal meaning. ie. is it safe enough that the risk is worth the benefit. Much like driving a motorcycle. So if we use this meaning, yes it is safe, to the people who skydive . To persuade people who don't skydive that it is safe, you need to get the point across that skydiving is not a sport only for the top 1% loony daredevils, and all skydivers don't have a death wish. You must show them that all the things done to reduce risk in the sport, brings this risk to an acceptable level. So it is by the above (second definition) it is safe. Is it as safe as xxxxx? well that is a different question. Dose it add a lot of risk to the average life? Hell yes. "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

God damn It looks like I am the only real Paddy here "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

Coaching and instructing are about the only way to do a lot of jumps on a limited budget. As an example. Last year in Slovakia there was a freefly instructor who did 250+ jumps in 3 weeks. And got paid for them. Even though bunks on the DZ were only 3 euros per night he was tenting. This guy was about 22 or so and spends every summer going around europe teaching freefly. Lives on the Cheap and saves what he can to get through the winter. At the rate he was jumping 1000 per year would be no problem "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing