Skyrad

I'm ok with restrictions for someone that's 'already' been diagnosed as homocidal due to an exam that was legally required based on commitable actions they've already demonstrated. I'm not ok with someone that's NOT been diagnosed for cause - I don't care how many manifestos or how much poo they fling. Nor, do I think the intent to purchase should automatically trigger the pre-requisite for a mental assessment if they've never committed an illegal/violent act in their past. (this is really the only solution any of these guys are proposing - or, at least, they are bumping right up into it pretty hard without actually stating such - perhaps Homeland Security, or the "Patriot" Act can be retasked) Rights shouldn't be casually taken based on what someone "might" do or just because you don't like their personal philosophies. Rights should only be taken as a result of actions that are demonstrated to cause harm to others. Sucks, but we don't own perfect crystal balls and I'm not ready to take any innocent and tie them down with a justification of "maybe" they'll be bad. I'm wondering if the US health system has some part in the frequency of these type of events? What is the provision of mental healthcare like in the US? Considering that you have to pay or have insurance to access healthcare could it be the case that people who most need psychiatric intervention are most likely the least likely to seek it. How could people who are beginning to crack be prevented from progressing down the path of mental ill heath in the first place? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I'd very much disagree with the idea that you can judge someone's mental state from a photo, certainly not to the extent that you'd be justified in taking away a constitutional right. The guy was living half-way across the country from his family. They didn't know that he had failed his oral prelim exam, or that he was withdrawing from the PhD program; do you think he forgot to mention those things, but told them about his plan for the theater (rhetorical question)? He apparently didn't have friends, and his neighbors never saw him. That's not normal, but also not as unusual as you may think. Some students are successful because they prefer to work instead of socialize, they just have different priorities than most people. He bought a lot of gear over the internet, where there is no human interaction so no chance to appear "unstable". It's not at all surprising that he was able to act normally for long enough for a short encounter with a gun store salesman, who after all has an incentive to "make the sale", and none at all to raise an alarm unless the guy were to be specific about his plans. Not inadvertent. I agree the best defense is "...people who care about you taking an interest in your life and problems." The problem is, you can't force people to have those kinds of interactions, and it's easy for people who are at risk of such behavior to go off the radar. Don i think on reflection that the thread title was not all that helpful, no one suddenly becomes mentally unstable. I think for the vast majority its a slow process part of which is physical disconnection from society, maybe if society was more attuned to this phenomena (see Davjohns0's posts) such events might be less likely to occur. Surely early intervention is the way forward. I also fully agree with your comments on social and professional stigmatisation preventing those most in need of intervention from seeking it. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

So your answer is to be reactive not proactive, prepare for the fight rather than have society prevent the fight in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I agree that you need to be prepared but I also think that prevention is better than cure. I think that is called Utopia. I think that is a called a defeatist attitude. What happened to 'thy kingdom come on Earth as it is in heaven?' One must try to make the world better not just throw up our hands in the face of iniquity and go arm ourselves. WWJD? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

i think that is a bloody good point well made. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I agree with winsor, "I really don't know. I suspect there is no "solution" per se." The only reasonable position is to protect yourself, your family, your community and your country. You must be armed, trained and prepared. For the safety of your loved ones and yourself, you must be ready and able to stand your ground. There must be at least one person in every family willing to assume the responsibility of the sheepdog. Someone in each family must be adept with survival techniques. The only thing progressives know to do is make laws. The only thing anarchists and terrorists know to do is subvert them. So your answer is to be reactive not proactive, prepare for the fight rather than have society prevent the fight in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I agree that you need to be prepared but I also think that prevention is better than cure. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Not at all, but I'm talking about people who are detached from reality. People like the Norwegian killer or the guy who thinks he is the Joker. Its simply not possible to stop some killings, the crimes of passion for example, someone comes home to find their other half taking it from behind from another person in their bed and flip out for example. But people detached from reality tend to be the ones who commit massacres (outside of a war scenario). When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

One step at a time Cyndi, you'll get there! When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Yes plenty in times of war and civil unrest. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I think you make a very good point. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

AK47s are the firearm equivalent of Pit Bull Terriers. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

The difference between this thread and the other is simply the tools are missing, I suspect that by removing the tools from the debate might be much more useful than leaving them in. We've all seen a child who hits their friend over the head with a toy, take away the toy and you can guarantee that the child will simply hit their friend over the head again with something else. So if taking away their toys doesn't work then the problem must be with the person not the implement. So this is a much more difficult question. How do you stop massacres by mentally unstable people? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Its so easy to say and yet virtually impossible to do. So to everyone but especially those in favour of some version of firearm control, what would you do to stop another mass murder like in Colorado. http://tinyurl.com/c4kd8pf When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

+1, a senseless tragedy. And regardless of this person’s religious or political leanings, in the end, he is just disturbed..... Period..... Right, we need to do a FAR BETTER JOB keeping guns out of the hands of nutcases. Good job all those CCW holders were around to prevent this. Just one man carrying a Ninja Glock would have made all the difference. The Perp wouldn't have stood a chance against a have a go hero Xbox Veteran, if they were equipped with a Ninja Glock. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAvYQSsGdMw When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

You do realise that being a Muslim is not a race or a nationality. While its true that Muslims are demonised in the Western media and watched in the states like 'commies' were in the McCarthy era there is no reason why a white American from Alabama couldn't be a Muslim. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Just submitted my order. Can't wait for it to come in. It's going to be my new favorite cap. i might get one myself, that would raise a few eyebrows down at the range! When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Exactly! They did it using the law of the time, if firearm ownership would have saved the Jews of WWII then this was the moment for them to rise up and take on the Third Reich. They didn't, why? Because they knew that they would be massacred on the spot. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Seriously. The Holocaust was a real wake-up call about the dangers governments pose to their populations. Avoiding victim disarmament should make committing such atrocities more difficult in the future. Nonsense. The Holocaust was about genocide. It wasn't about gun control. That was after the Nazis made it illegal for Jews to own firearms and confiscated many of their guns in 1938. They also leveraged local records of gun ownership to disarm victims outside Germany as they marched across Europe. I see where you are going with this, but I still disagree. The road to the gas chambers and execution pits was an insidious one which worked because the victims actively took part in the long slow bureaucratic process. Where they did have access to guns (Warsaw) they hesitated to use them because they knew what it would lead to. The only difference that guns made to the resistance in the ghetto was that they died in the ghetto rather than the death camps. Personally I'd rather have died fighting too but it still wouldn't change the outcome. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Not to mention that many of them weren't even Americans. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

attacking the movie studio wouldn't be valid, as the nutter had not seen the movie yet, therefore had not been influenced by the movie You should have been a lawyer! When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

'Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership' Seriously?? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Thats my point, its bloody obvious that they're black so why put it on the headline. I don't see how their colour has anything to do with the crime they committed... And yes your suggestion was a stupid one. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I wonder what they put their colour up on the headlines for, would they have done that if they'd both been white? When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca

The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as: The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological. I wouldn't consider this guy a terrorist just yet. It could just turn out that he is simply a highly deranged gun-nut. I don't need the DoD of a foreign government with a dodgy history of bending definitions on combatants, non combatant and terrorist to its own internationally illegal political goals to explain to me what a terrorist is... But point taken. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca