mrshutter45

I will take the same action as the police.....no comment.. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Non-substantiated? Guess again. Anytime you want to check a quoted source I've named, feel free to do so. what happened to the RobertMblevins who said they were no longer going to report on the Cossey case? is that out the window like leaving the thread and not responding to Georger, or not really caring about the Cooper case??????????????????????? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

This was taken from Sluggo's site, information was written by Robert99.... Even if, as Captain Bohan reportedly claimed, the winds at 14,000 feet were 80 knots from 160 degrees in the Portland area, all available evidence indicates that the winds were only 30 knots or less at the 10,000 foot altitude where NWA 305 flew. I believe even you have questioned the weather that evening, if they have the weather wrong and used this information along with the radar data with the plotting, how is it going to be correct? did they radar show a little dot where the plane was and show the area around it like you would see on a GPS? attempt 32. I am not trying to discredit anything, you seem to use this term loosely when it come to the flight path. nobody has attempted anything like this other than Robert99 who has done extensive calculations on the path. how is this any different than you claiming the Amboy chute is not what they say it is? why are you trying to discredit the FBI? basically it seems ok for you to say the chute is wrong that the FBI has. they are wrong for not looking further into the KC question. they are right on believing Cooper jumped at 8:12. they are wrong on the official description of Cooper, but, the transcripts are 100% along with the flight path? you said a lot of smart people were on this, wasn't a lot of smart people on the Amboy chute, the descriptions etc.? that " piece of garbage " did help establish the flight path location. I see a difference between discredit, validation and human error. val·i·date (vl-dt) tr.v. val·i·dat·ed, val·i·dat·ing, val·i·dates 1. To declare or make legally valid. 2. To mark with an indication of official sanction. 3. To establish the soundness of; corroborate. why is it always pages and pages talking to Blevins on one given subject, are you really that smart? it seems to be a pattern with Jo, BK and Blevins when it come to any given topic, page after page of debating? I go back and forth maybe 3 or 4 times with other posters, but not you 3? most things are done off this thread in order to avoid these constant battles....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

If you read the post correctly you would notice I didn't say this....... Jo, he is talking about the temps at 10,000 not the temp on the ground.... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Killer or burglar? Oh, both I suppose. Maybe random burglary, maybe planned. You are probably right about the back and forth. I'm not going along with Meyer Louie's Family Planning version of a murder for financial gain until I see an arrest. Cops sure are being tight with the details on this one. REALLY tight. No one knows why, either. yep, lets let a little more time go by and see what pops up, if a reasonable time passes, then perhaps it will be time to say WTF..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

where does 1-5 fit in with him being a gambler and known to have large sums of money? I asked you once before, if I came to your home to kill you, I have to break and enter your property to kill you. am I a killer or a burglar?? I really don't want to go back and forth all nite with this..... how a bout waiting to see what really happened?? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I don't remember seeing it there either. check your message box "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

You know, Meyer...you came down pretty hard on me for suggesting that Cossey's murder was probably related to a burglary. And then the Woodinville police chief classifies it as such at a recent City Council meeting. I had to sit here and read major frickin' insults from you about that. Now...you have the nerve to start naming suspects? You are hinting that Cossey's elderly wife had something to do with it? WTH is that all about? You have not a clue from any of the limited information that has been released to even go down that path. At least when I said it was a possible burglary-in-progress, I had something to go on. The cops photographing window latches, for example, and other things around the front door. Those were shown on KIRO-TV. Also, the history of excessive burglaries in Cossey's neighborhood. I'm not going to give you a hard time as you did to me, but I think you might want to backtrack on that a bit. Robert99: I agree with you that Hominid is wrong about the placard having nothing to do with the flight path. Too bad it wasn't made of lead, though.

If Cooper faced forward and pulled while on the stairs, the jump would be very similar to the Thailand S/L jumps. If he did a freefall then they are enormously different. If I had known about the Thailand 727 jumps and had to jump from a 727 at night with a potentially destabilizing payload, I would have faced forward and pulled while standing on the stairs. GUARANTEED stability. No tumble, no spin. Just some opening shock (actually quite mild judging by the video) and a ride to the ground. 377 I agree with your conclusion, but, it's still not the same jump and I do recall saying it was similar. I know I'm nit picking, but as you mentioned, we don't know exactly how he did it. if not mistaken it appears they slid out of the back,right down the cargo ramp? unlike today you guys dive out? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen previously the Hominid post that Shutter quotes" Correct, it was not from this thread, it's from the Sleuth site. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

You can get an upper limit estimate on the 727 speed during the Thailand drops. The photo plane appears to be a turboprop Beech 18 conversion, probably a Hamilton Westwind or a Volpar. Air America had a few turboprop Beech 18s. http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/aircraft/vtb.pdf http://beechrestorations.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/newsletter-12-supplement.pdf The Volpars had a top speed of around 245 mph. No reason to go fast for those S/L jumps, so my guess is less than 170 mph. Georger or Snow could probably calculate speed from the jumper trajectory plots. That's beyond my pay grade. 377 170 MPH or Knots? I still find the clip intersting, but, we have trained paratroopers jumping out of the back that has been modified. I stick to my first conclusion of it not being the same. I think the movie "The Pursuit Of DB Cooper" has more similarities in it than the static line jump..... I like the Zero's on the Beach 18 page "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"between $5,000 and $25,000 in his cash bankroll" like I said before, there is motive..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

_______________________________________________ What about that? Seems like a reasonable question when you look at basic vector addition in terms of navigation. MeyerLouie I don't think Knoss understands the area very well. 15 miles west puts the path over 3 miles on the west side of the Columbia. this would be using Battleground as the furthest point east. 20 miles and you are lost in the west..... The United States Government would never have done a exercise as he claims. they would not allow this to continue the way it has spanning decades. once they realized it was out of control, I can assure you they would of planted a body to be found and put an end to it. Hogwash I say. Bob locks onto weak spots and cleverly pops in with an answer to the weak spot. no logic behind his scam, it would be much easier to simply implement new laws. did the planes fly into the towers to bring the failed Cooper mission back into play? where does it end....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"but guess he had between $5,000 and $25,000 in his cash bankroll." possible motive right there....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

*** but does not have the time to figure out this new formatting...... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/14/remains-in-colorado-car-identified-as-man-missing-since-187/ http://www.gjsentinel.com/breaking/articles/skeletal-remains-near-gateway-linked-to-26-year-old-case/ Sometimes people "disappear" and they could be closer than you would have ever imagined. Thanks Vicki......and Howdy "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

here is something from Hominid......May 2012..enjoy What does it take to demonstrate that the "FBI" flightpath chart is valid? That it truly shows, within the limits of its accuracy, the locations over which flight 305 passed after leaving SEATAC during the "Cooper" hijacking? First, don't get sidetracked into looking at the flightpath plot with red and blue pushpin symbols, a broad green "path," and notations about positions according to plot and estimated positions. This is a product a person made from the original FBI chart. It's resolution is not nearly as good as the FBI chart, and the pretty symbols and green line obscure the plot positions. The "FBI" chart has positions marked by light red crosses. Any "proof" that the flight was, at any time, within "x" miles of the centerline of "victor" ("VOR") airway V23 does not validate the flightpath plot. Such "proof" would only validate a contention that the flight at some point was close to the airway. The best we can do is to verify that the plotted flightpath is consistent with the best information we have from other evidence. If the other evidence from the FBI and the flightpath were all provided as part of a conspiracy to obscure the truth, then consistency between the different pieces would be insignificant. But, if you believe that most of the info from the FBI has been truthful, that there has not been a "grand Cooper conspiracy," consistency of the pieces would indicate that the flightpath plot is truthful. THE OTHER EVIDENCE The other evidence applicable to the flightpath consists of the transcripts of communications, the NWA incident report, the crew notes, the '72 "searchzone" map, the placard, and the Tena Bar money find. We must prioritize these different pieces of evidence based on their precision with respect to locating the flight at different times. That is, the most important things with which the flightpath should be consistent are those things that are most precise and accurate. Among the communication transcripts, there are three different types. There are transcripts of recordings of communications with practically zero time information. There are transcripts of recordings with times identified to the second. And there are the teletype communications with only the minutes at the ends of the communications logged when the messages were sent. Some communications of this last type could have been excluded since the different messages were stuck (taped?) together onto carrier pages. Because the most accurate time info is on the one type of recording transcript, this transcript must be given highest priority. Use of the logged teletype messages must account for the fact that the times indicated are only the hour and minute portions of the time when the message was sent at varying times after the words were actually spoken and (approximately) typed into the teletype. When analyzing the '72 searchzone map, again, don't get sidetracked and misled by the Google Earth image a person made by transfering his interpretation of positions into Google Earth. Don't just trust that the positions were correctly transferred into Google Earth. This image is of low resolution and shows practically zero features that can be used to determine the point locations. The black and white copy of a marked-up topo map is the original information and includes many recognizable features. It happens that a high resolution version of this is among the group files of the Yahoo research group site, and I can provide a copy to anyone who is interested (because I download/save everything). The location of the placard tells us almost nothing about the flightpath. An analysis based on the placard's drag coefficient being unity is worthless for several reasons, including the fact that the placard very likely was bent and certainly would have picked up a heavy load of ice after falling the first 2000 feet. The money find tells us something significant about the flightpath only if we are so stupid as to believe that the plane must have flown over Tena Bar because we don't understand how the money could have gotten there otherwise. PLOT ACCURACY What about the tolerances for the positions plotted on the flightpath chart? Precise, detailed analysis of the chart reveals that the plotted positions were rounded to whole minutes of latitude and longitude. So the inaccuracy (likely errors) for the plot would be something plus a rounding error of ±.5 minutes for N-S and some other something plus the same rounding error for E-W. Because the radar from which the plane was tracked was at a bearing of approximately 45° from due south of the plane, the "something" errors (not including the rounding errors) reflecting the accuracy of the basic radar data would be approximately the same for N-S and E-W. Equally precise, detailed analysis of the 1972 searchzone map reveals that the point "D" on the map is exactly the location annotated (probably incorrectly) as 2010 on the "FBI" chart, and that point "E" is exactly the location annotated as 2011 on the "FBI" chart. This means that the '72 searchzone map and the "FBI" flightpath chart were made from the same data set, and that the inaccuracies of the plotted positions on the two charts are identical. The explanatory information that accompanied the '72 searchzone map indicated that the position tolerance for points drawn on that map was ±.5 nautical miles (nm). But the N-S tolerance for the FBI chart is ±.5' (which is ±.5nm) plus the "something". So the "something" must be so small as to be neglegible in order for the two tolerances to be the same. Note that the ±.5' of longitude (E-W) does not equal ±.5nm as the ±.5' of latitude (N-S) does. Non-technical people typically do not understand the difference. Hence, the mistake is often made of equating a minute of longitude to a nautical mile of E-W. This was apparently the case in the explanation of position tolerance that was part of the explanation of the '72 searchzone map. Conclusion: The position tolerances for the FBI flightpath chart plots is ±.5' of latitude and longitude. The plot positions should be within those tolerances of being what the actual aircraft positions were unless the chart is part of a conspiracy to confound the public. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and obviously haven't put as much thought into this as you have... But am I misunderstanding something, or did in fact the placard land in a spot that would be considered 'upwind' of even the most liberal estimation of the currently accepted flight path? I don't know much about the placard to give any response too, perhaps Robert99 or Georger...... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

When a competent & experienced sport skydiver looks out & down prior to exit, in our 'minds-eye' we visualize possible landing areas in regard to the 'exact' exit point. You take kind of a 3D picture and superimpose what amounts roughly to an upside down funnel into that, with the aircraft door at the small end of the funnel. The 'size & shape' of the funnel are dictated by a number of variables...exit altitude, speed, freefall drift, opening altitude, wind speed & direction as well as canopy performance parameters. 'Spotting' for an exit point is basically making sure your intended landing site is at the center of this 'cone' of possible places you can go, once you've left the door. The reason I bring this up is... When mrshutter first started explaining his project 305, I thought to myself what a fantastic way of narrowing down a possible LZ with math & science in a way not considered prior. One could conceivably factor in ALL the variables and produce a map of sorts, showing 'only' the area of probability... After sifting through the last several pages it's becoming apparent to me anyway, the cone of possible LZ's is freakin' MASSIVE. Even with an exact track path & identifiable exit point, the winds & unknown opening altitude alone highlight an LZ 'cone' that would be extremely difficult to foot search. Throw in the possible variance on the track along with the ground covered from the time Cooper was known to be on the plane and known to be off...holy COW that's a big area! So...I started thinking project 305 may not be able to give a practical area of search considering the variables 'at this time', but is a very valuable tool to exclude - to a VERY certain degree - areas that absolutely could NOT be within that 'cone' I described. Am I wrong...doesn't the location of the placard fall WELL outside of the cone of possibility, from the information currently available? If so, that's troubling...because if it wasn't moved from where it landed that night, somebody's numbers are way off. Well, I'll try and explain my original thought once the project started. over a certain time period, one gains knowledge about things through books, internet, talking to peeps etc. I noticed a lot of confusion as to the probable place Cooper could have jumped. he landed in the water, no he is stuck on a tree etc. then I started noticing people talking about the path, whether it was correct in it's timing, or if the path was right. A little light bulb went off in my head, I have a simulator, I could try and fly the path they way they did. so, my intention is to validate the path, try and match everything done as they did. the weather, altitude, speed, direction and the weight of the plane. I don't think I can tell you where Cooper jumped, but, when I'm finished I should be able to tell you the flight path can be flown the way they presented it. if something is found not matching the FBI time frame, we now know where to correct the map and get it on track. my intention is not to tell you exactly where Cooper jumped, you need a time machine for that, but, it should give us firm information about the flight path itself. we have known problems in the time frames that Robert99 has done calculations on way before I was around. I have been able to verify those issues in question the first couple minutes of the flight. validation is a key word here, not where Cooper landed. that is a primary goal for all of us. this is why I can't explain enough that the path has to be checked in order to validate anything past that. I might find nothing wrong with the path, but, you will feel cozy inside knowing the path has been verfied and start moving forward from that point. you must start from point A in order to follow up ending with Z. if you go in between, how can you be sure of your position? worse case, the talk is Cooper landed further South, correct? what if the plane is one minute behind the known time frame, look out water ahead! 8:14,15 and 16 move forward and closer to the Columbia. we seem to question and ask for proof on everything tied to this case, why exclude the flight path? once everything is mastered, a video will be made, it will show the time, altitude, direction, coords, temps, wind direction, fuel flow etc. documenting minute by minute where the plane is on each step, you will see inside views and out. popcorn not included "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

" In your 'maybe they just got blown off course' world " Robert, if you don't watch what you are doing in the air you will fly off course. it's called corrective action or variation and deviation. why would they have a Navigator on a plane if it was so easy to fly a straight line? An airplane is heading due south at a speed of 500 km/h. If a wind begins blowing from the southwest at a speed of 100 km/h, calculate the velocity of the plane relative to the ground, and how far off course it will be after 10 min. Answer: 435 km/h, 9.36 degrees east of south. so, this happens very often in the "blown off course world" " I don't think the problem is with the map. It's where Cooper jumped along that map. There is no solid evidence, even after more than four decades, that indicates it was inaccurate. " again, what do you do in order to figure out if Cooper jumped in a different location? pages back you claimed they knew exactly where Cooper jumped? the-first-step-would-be-re-doing-the-path-to-make-sure-the-minutes-are-as-they-have-them-on-the-map-if-this-is-incorrect-you-will-never-know-where-he-jumped. now you admit he could of jumped somewhere else, but don't think checking the path is a good idea because there is no solid evidence? you are very negative about a lot of things, tell me, how is it you can be so positive about KC? you must have some solid evidence? the most logical start would be from point A of a problem, not point E, F or G. you must start at the begining in order to conclude any facts. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I meant nautical miles, for some reason I always put KM....should be NM..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

_______________________________________________ I think even Mr. H has acknowledges that the FBI had it wrong -- the search area. Only one iota of anything was ever found (no parachute, no streamer, no briefcase, no moneybag, no loafers -- just the aft door placard) in the search area, and it's been said more than once, "You'd think something would have turned up by now." This is evidence (that's right, the lack of it) that Cooper most likely didn't jump here. Whatever algorithm or procedure was used to determine the jump zone, it was wrong. So, something is amiss. Moreover, the money find at Tena Bar might also indicate the calculations were off -- like maybe by quite a bit way off. Might Cooper have ended up more south and more east than what was originally estimated? Did we get faked out by that pressure bump? Entirely possible...... MeyerLouie Correct, I was just saying that to Blevins since he thought everyone knew everything about where Cooper jumped. if we have a skew in the time frames we can narrow things down. many think he went into the water, perhaps he did if something is wrong somewhere in the path. I just don't know at this moment. I can tell you that if I take off at 7:36:33 and the wind and temps are set properly and I follow exactly as they did leveling at 7,000 with flaps at 30, speed 160, then continue a while until I start the climb to 10,000 back at 15 flaps and around 170. I arrive at Toledo at 7:59. I have flown this part of the path dozens of times. I'm working on other parts of the leg following Toledo. I also get blown off course just as Rat explained. the hard part is being the pilot, co-pilot and engineer all at the same time, watching my speed, course, time, fuel etc. not easy my friend. I need a co-pilot with me keep in mind the place card was found some 25 KM from the supposed LZ...... _____________________________________________ Good information, Mrshutter45. Sounds like you need a couple of more hands. Your work is fascinating, it just may help answer some of those burning questions. You've already mentioned getting blown off course. That in itself could be significant. I don't have map in front of me right now, but I'm wondering just how close you are to the Columbia River gorge (the stretch of the River directly east of the Portland/Washougal area for several miles along the river, going east). I was in the Gorge that night, the wind was fierce. I'm wondering if 305 could have been close enough to the start of the Gorge to have been affected by the severe winds that were blowing through there that night. Might that have affected the flight path? I don't know how close an aircraft would have to be to the Columbia River Gorge to be affected by its severe side winds and wind shears. If so, then it might mean 305 was further south and further east than was originally thought. I do have to make one more point -- just because we haven't found a body or a parachute or a briefcase does not mean they're not there. And just because we have not found any of the Cooper stuff does not mean the flight path or jump zone was all wrong. Since none of the Cooper goods were found, it may be evidence, or a possible indication anyway, that something is amiss. That's all I'm saying. I think your work may very well help us get to the bottom of it. I wish you well, and if there's anything I could possibly do to help, please do not hesitate to ask. MeyerLouie Thanks Meyer, the main problem I have is the timing, while busy flying I'm watching the altitude, speed etc. and forget to climb to a point, or speed up, even though I have notes in front of me, it's a lot to keep track of. I was thinking of having a phone patch put thru the sim, this way I could have someone on the phone to fly with. the pause button works, but I have to hit the timer on the yoke plus stop the sim. it's just little things that I have to adjust too. the weather system I now have on it is very complicated, or I'm making it complicated (haven't decided) the system is off by a certain amount of degrees after I input the information. I've contacted the company and they are guiding me thru my error's. I believe I turn west away from the area you speak of, lots of zig zags from Merwin down to Portland. this whole area is not very big once you view it from above, I can see Portland while passing over the Lewis river (if I have no cloud coverage) I can see the highway with no problem, you can do a lot of "dead reckoning' flying in this area with the highway, lake Vancouver, Battleground etc. as for the body, chute and briefcase, all I can say is it's possible he could be out there or gone into the water, or just walked away........me don't know "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

If Cooper was relying on ground signals, why did he pick a night with bad weather? what does the place card 25 KM away have to do with the jump? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

_______________________________________________ I think even Mr. H has acknowledges that the FBI had it wrong -- the search area. Only one iota of anything was ever found (no parachute, no streamer, no briefcase, no moneybag, no loafers -- just the aft door placard) in the search area, and it's been said more than once, "You'd think something would have turned up by now." This is evidence (that's right, the lack of it) that Cooper most likely didn't jump here. Whatever algorithm or procedure was used to determine the jump zone, it was wrong. So, something is amiss. Moreover, the money find at Tena Bar might also indicate the calculations were off -- like maybe by quite a bit way off. Might Cooper have ended up more south and more east than what was originally estimated? Did we get faked out by that pressure bump? Entirely possible...... MeyerLouie Correct, I was just saying that to Blevins since he thought everyone knew everything about where Cooper jumped. if we have a skew in the time frames we can narrow things down. many think he went into the water, perhaps he did if something is wrong somewhere in the path. I just don't know at this moment. I can tell you that if I take off at 7:36:33 and the wind and temps are set properly and I follow exactly as they did leveling at 7,000 with flaps at 30, speed 160, then continue a while until I start the climb to 10,000 back at 15 flaps and around 170. I arrive at Toledo at 7:59. I have flown this part of the path dozens of times. I'm working on other parts of the leg following Toledo. I also get blown off course just as Rat explained. the hard part is being the pilot, co-pilot and engineer all at the same time, watching my speed, course, time, fuel etc. not easy my friend. I need a co-pilot with me keep in mind the place card was found some 25 KM from the supposed LZ...... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"JUST exactly HOW man minute pasted AFTER Tina went to the front of the plane and when Cooper supposedly jumped." see photo attached "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Sounds like one entry of the transcript was an add-on. The typist added in an additional message from the crew. Now...in articles written about the event, those time estimates might have been written up by the reporters. Rataczak has been interviewed many times, and it seems natural over the years that he might tell reporters rounded-off figures. For example, saying 7:45 for an entry, when in reality the event happened at 7:43. The only trustworthy record would be the transcript, in my opinion. But the time stamps are also tricky because there would be some delay between the crew's actual radio contact and the time the typist enters the information. Sounds as if the 8:10 entry was the add-on somehow. Maybe the typist is trying to narrow down the time the crew actually reported the stairs were causing an occillation. It is difficult to decipher. I don't know. Four or five minutes, twelve to fifteen miles, that's a lot of search area. It's possible that Cooper jumped a bit further south than the Lake Merwin area, but that begs one point and another question: If the people working on the jump point had access to the transcript and saw these things, and were speaking to the crew, (during and after the flight) how did they decide to pick the search area that they did? See...this is a question for the FBI I think. Or the people who decided the search area from the data. Douggarr says in part: I'll bet you are the same Doug who doesn't like the idea of rebuilding the school building in Woodinville. I'm with you on this. They should just hire more cops and stop being so secretive on some of the information regarding Cossey. The Woodinville police chief classified it as a burglary at the last City Council meeting but would give no other details. My opinion is that people in Cossey's neighborhood might appreciate knowing whether or not there is a burglar in the neighborhood who has now graduated to murder. I hope they find Cossey's killer soon. I mixed two different transcripts. now, as you read this it can get very confusing fast if you don't know what is going on or if you are reading the right transcript. I learned this very early on from people you argue with on this thread. I don't argue with them, I learn from them.... Rataczak claimed 10-15 minutes after the oscillation, but the transcript said the jump area was at 8:10, not 10 or 15 minutes past the 8:05 mark? the map shows a different story as to where they searched. we got numbers flying all over the place. so how is it a bad thing to run the path and see if it matches? I'm not setting out to discredit anything, but we have issues here that don't seem to fall into place. the best thing I can think of is to rerun the flight path.....no? does the FBI still believe in the original search area? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI