CanuckInUSA

You need to realize that swooping isn't doing a 180 or 270. Swooping is when someone induces speed for their landing (to swoop across the ground). When jumping a small canopy, all I need to do is lean in my harness without even pulling on a front riser on something like a 90 degree turn (just as Stu mentioned in his post a while back) and I'll be coming in faster than someone who made a bigger turn on a bigger canopy. Swooping is not the turn, it's inducing speed for your landing. When I was learning to swoop (shit I'm still learning) on larger canopies, swooping in traffic wasn't as big of an issue since I wasn't generating the speed I can now that I'm on a small pocket rocket. But now that I'm flying the ultra-high performance swooping machines, swooping in traffic is scary. I'm on your guys side in that respect. But take swooping away from the responsible swoopers and where does that leave us? I'm sorry but being a big-way belly flier doesn't interest me. I find big-ways to be just as scary as swooping in traffic. What's the common denominator here? Not swooping but people doing stupid things in traffic while under a perfectly functional canopy. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

The future of swooping is on the line here. I am not arguing that ripping a big turn in traffic is not rolling the dice. So if DZs want to cut down on the risk, banning the big turns on normal loads is not out of the question. So what are the alternatives, a seperate landing areas is one, but not all DZs have that luxury. Low passes or high pulls is another, but now here we have an industry leader saying that low passes are not economically viable for their business (they've got to be one of if not the most lucrative DZ in the world). What are we to do when more DZs follow SDAZ's model? I have already seen some DZs modifying their hop n' pop policies to the point where getting on a hop n' pop is like pulling your teeth. So where is this sport going? Some DZs are catering to tandems and students and some DZs are only catering to big ways and teams. How are the future jumpers expected to gain the experience to become the future TMs and AFFIs when they are being discouraged from jumping. To some people, I am doing nothing but whinning and in all reality since I am not young who knows how long I'll be around? But look in the mirror and ask yourself where do you want to see this sport 10-20-30 years from now and ask yourself where are the innovations of this sport occuring? We're all going to be a bunch of "Doe-Doe" birds if knee-jerk solutions are adopted. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Why is there always an assumption that hop n' poppers need the pilot to level off, slow down etc, etc, etc. This is all needed for big way groups when people are hanging off of the airplane waiting for everyone else to get set, but a hop n' popper only needs a certain amount of altitude. Slowing down a little exiting from a King Air is not a bad ideal, but slowing down in a Cessna, Otter or Porter? Please ... the airplane can still be climbing when we exit. There is no need to level off for hop n' poppers ... plus it also gives us a greater opportunity for vertical seperation (assuming the people following the first person out follow the planned deployment delays). Now if I can just get those old fart accuracy guys to realize that I need more than 2k (more like 3.5k) when I'm doing a hop n' pop with them. Oh and by the way, to some people I too would qualify as an old fart (what with myself being a POPS member ... thank you very much Mar), I'm just an old fart who refuses to play my age since swooping keeps me young (in spirit). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Don't confuse the zoo'ish multiple aircrafts on jump run of the Holiday Boogie with your normal average day at Eloy. No Hop n' pops during the Holiday Boogie is understandable. No hop n' pops on an average day is not. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

If I knew what you were talking about maybe I could splain some'thung to ya. But I don't know shit. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

You already have ... hell at times I want to ban Canada. But I better not go there otherwise I'll get this thread moved into the Speakers Corner. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

If you want to swoop the small pocket rocket, you must first learn to swoop the large canopy. I'm not so sure I would call them swoops, but my first double front riser landings were on a Triathlon 220 and my first front riser turns to landings were on a Sabre2 190. But what does this have to do with this thread? Nothing ... I guess I'm still in shock for reading that hop n' pops are not economically viable at SDAZ so I guess you won't be seeing my sorry ass in AZ very much anymore. Let's just hope that this attitude doesn't spread to more DZs. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Miss you too K except if you were referring to this Steve [me] when you speak of Colorado, well I'm not there anymore. I'm up in Calgary Alberta tending to 9 years of renters abuse on my house here (with ambitious top-to-bottom reno plans). Alberta has a lot in common with Colorado, but I will say that IMHO Colorado is better mainly because it has better weather and better jumping opportunities. But western Canada is a beautiful place that people should visit if they've never been there. Speaking of boogies ... Not surprisingly last summer in BC I attended two local boogies where Otters were brought in and people from all over BC and Alberta (and even some WA State peeps) got together for the fun. This is predictable, but when you get a group of people who are only used to jumping out of small airplanes, it’s not surprising for chaos to erupt under canopy when all of a sudden 22 other canopies share the sky with them. Fortunately nothing bad happened (except for the inevitable alcohol abuse at night), but boogies are a time for people to slow down instead of rush into all of those cool, fun zoo’ish style jumps. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

The first thing we must do is kill all the lawyers. The second thing is to ban all the Turtles. After all they are slow and often very very very old. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Can I ammend this statement by saying: Doing stupid things under a perfectly functional canopy in any airspace is a dumb thing to do. Then swoopers won't feel so defensive towards the anti-swooping boogie man. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Asshole ... I'll "Allah Akbar" you the next time I see you. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Smiley you beat me to the punch. PS: I won't be giving you the luxury of beating me in a swoop comp this coming season ever since I moved away from the "Wet" PAC-NW. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Holy #### batman, for a second I thought you were talking about how redicilous it is to bad 270s while thinking 180s were safer. But then I realized you thought this thread was actually about something else. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Hopefully you realize you're telling someone with 5000+ skydives on "how not to die" in this sport. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

And boogies ... don't forget the boobies and boogies. They definitely kill people ... along with the guns and the 270s. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Especially now that some greenie decided to move the thread into the Bonfire. I guess boobies will be next ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

This makes about as much sense as banning 270s. Maybe that was JP's point? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Agreed ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

LOL ... just ask one of my CO friends who got into a night time drunken golf cart accident back in '03 when he drove his cart into a fire hydrant hidden by some vegitation. He broke some ribs, a girl in the front seat apparently broke her wrist and two dudes sitting on the back of the golf cart got a bad case of whip lash. The WFFC was not a safe event. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Looks like the WFFC has been banned and that was one always good for a fatality/year. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Well it sounds like these other jumpers are just being dicks then. Any worthy canopy pilot should be able to do what is required (ie: hang in brakes or choose an alternate lane) in order to let someone else below them pass especially when we're talking about a big open field and not talking about a dedicated swoop course. I find it funny that a wing suiter would be beating the instructors down? Tandems yes, but Instructors? Are you sucking it low? Just kidding, your pull altitudes are none of my business and has nothing to do with this thread. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Oh I've had that muttered/said/yelled at me a few times. Cause I fly a big-ass spectre 135 after a wingsuit jump and I fly a standard student-type pattern around the field (900 ft, 600ft, 250 ft or so, with no s-turns etc), I sometimes get "in the way" of some of our AFF instructors who want to swoop. Is this a generic main landing area you speak of that is supposed to accommodate the entire load? If yes, then those people are dicks for yelling at you. As the lower less maneuverable canopy, you should have the right of way and those people have no business yelling at you if they have to abort their swoop. But if you’re over-flying a dedicated swooping area, well I’m sorry but you are the one who is showing poor canopy control. These other people still need to abort their swoops, but they have every right to be mad at you if you’re over-flying a place that you shouldn’t be in the first place. It’s one thing for a student to make a mistake and put themselves where they shouldn’t be. But it’s another thing for an experience person. So what is it? Generic main landing area? Or a high performance swoop lane? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Not sure why you’re coming to some of your conclusions? Where are all these evil swoopers who are blaming you non-swoopers coming from? Some of us swoopers do think that pulling the big turn in traffic is rolling the dice (and wish more people would use better judgement). But some of us swoopers also know that the same dangers exist in a 180 like the 270, yet some of you non-swoopers seem to think that by banning the 270 you’re all of a sudden going to be flying in your safe “la-la” space. I guess some of us swoopers are more concerned about a knee-jerk reaction and we fear that if more and more DZs will adopt the “you can’t swoop on a regular loads oh and while we’re at it, we don’t think hop n’ pops are economically viable” things we are seeing here, that our discipline of choice will go the way of the Doe-Doe birds. That’s my concern. Give me my hop n’ pops (charging me a fair price for the service) and my dedicated swoop lanes, and I’m a happy camper. I sure as hell don’t want to share the same concurrent airspace with someone else. PS: Yesterday’s fatality in FL had nothing to do with a big turn and everything to do with poor canopy control decisions. People doing stupid things under canopy is the root cause of the problems in this sport and it can happen to anyone who becomes complacent regardless of whether or not they are a swooper or whether or not they have the experience or are some newbie. Complacency Kills … Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Didn't we tar and feather your ass all the way back to New Mexico? Hold on a sec ... maybe that's why I'm back in the frozen tundra (Canad'ia) instead of swooping the pond (where yes it's far far far away from where the old so called main landing area is and where you're faced with a long walk back if you're not lucky enough to have someone drive out to the pond to pick you up). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over