CanuckInUSA

Thanks for the diagram Tim. It’s a totally workable solution and not all that far off from the policy where RiggerRob works except that they had their swoopers coming in from the same direction the other pattern fliers came from (the swoopers just had to fly their base leg patterns a little longer). I like your solution better. In fact I talked to someone at Rob’s DZ last year about getting their swoopers to come in your way. But I got vetoed. Hopefully Rob will show your solution his people. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Wise words my friend ... you never cease to amaze me with the smart things coming out of your keyboard lately. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

You're fooling yourself if you think it is any safer. Not only is it harder for the swooper to be accurate with a 180 over a 270, but it is just as dicey when it comes to potential canopy collisions. Bryan knows this ... any swooper knows this ... it's time that the masses realize that 180s are no safer than the bigger turns. You don't need a camera, many people have experienced the Holiday boogie and know how chaotic it can be at times. Big boogies and/or big loads are not the time to go big and yes people need to speak to those who think otherwise. Cutting people off is never cool, but I'm confused as to why you say people out swooping other people is irresponsible? The fast canopies (even if the pilot does not induce extra speed on their landings) will always out swoop the slower canopies and the people flying the slower canopies should really be asking themselves why they insist on landing in Eloy north landing field? Any competent canopy pilot flying a highly loaded sub 100 foot x-braced canopy will induce more speed by simply leaning into their harness on a 90 degree turn versus someone who's trying to do a bigger front riser turn on a larger traditional canopy. Base on some of the PMs I have been receiving (some of which I refuse to reply to) I know I am sounding like a broken record here. But the root cause of our collective problem is NOT the turn type but the incompatibility of the speed of our canopies (and yes some canopy pilots need an attitude adjustment). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

I think that you just proved that in many respects people living full-time in the skydiving world are not economically viable. Sorry I couldn't resist. Let the market figure itself out. If you charge too much for your services, then you will drive your potential clients away. If you price yourself properly, then you will keep yourself busy. You should be paid a fair wage for your services. But at the same time your clients/students should not be gouged for the lifestyle you choose (oh and this is in reference to the entire industry - not just yourself). But remember if you choose to work full-time in this business and if you can't find a way to support your family, then maybe you should be looking for another way to suppliment your income so that you can support them. I would love to jump full-time. Believe many many many times I have thought about selling my house, cutting away and moving to some DZ and being one of the full-time jumpers. But in the end I think what will I do once I burn through all my money. So I decided to continue to be the weekend warrior. Sure I'm not nearly as good a skydiver as I could be if I was jumping everyday. But I am financially sound and I have choices. With all due respect, yes you should be fairly compensated for your services, but you are preeching to the wrong crowd if you expect us to fund your lifestyle. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Speaking of which, why don't the docile canopy pilots of Eloy use the south landing area more often? That's what it's there for. For conservative canopy pilots. If I am wrong, then please Betsy (or someone else who represents SDAZ's management), please tell us why your south landing area even exists? Maybe that one could become the HP landing area while the main landing area becomes the conservative one. Then again ... Eloy is not my DZ and who am I to make their policies. Let's just hope more DZs don't adopt their stance of low passes not being economically viable. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

I have tons of respect for Bryan Burke. I have been very enlighten to speak to him one-on-one on the few occasions I was privilaged to have his attention. But he's twisting words here just like a politician uses words to make people think they are fixing a problem. Bryan knows (just like all of us swoopers) than 180s are just as dicey in traffic as 270s are. He's challenging people to tell him that 180s are more dangerous than 270s. If he was really serious, he would ban 180s as well. But then I'm pretty sure most of his talent from SDAZ would be moving to another DZ if he did that. No SDAZs policy reminds me of how our politicians treat us with deception to make the masses think they have fixed a problem. The solution to this issue is to segregate slow canopies from the fast ones and wasn't that the purpose behind why Eloy already as 2 (count'em) landing areas. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

How do you feel about someone flying their canopy right at you and then turning a 180 at the last possible moment. Under SDAZ's policies this is an accepted maneuver over their north landing area. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

I don't agree with all of Pitt's policies (I've tried talking to Andreas about it ... and you know Andreas is a reasonable guy ... but he feels he's got it right). Anyway, you may be directing your anger in the wrong direction as in some respects the DZO of Pitt wasn't 100% incorrect and I disagree with your assessment where you think they don't care. I have seen this show boat visiting videographer do things at the other DZ that just made me shake my head. Multiple rotations (in traffic) and then carving his turn on the deck. Sure it would be a cool swoop under controlled conditions. But the way he does them in traffic, it's just an accident waiting to happen. The other DZ's management should be the one dealing with their videographer. But it appears that they let him run free. He is an example of the person that needs to have an attitude change in regards to swooping ... but I don't know him very well and I no longer live in the area. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

No wind chaos can be reduced by having the entire load agree to a landing direction before the plane takes off. Before we adopt knee-jerk solutions, let's start communicating with each other, figure out what people are planning to do and make a plan before the airplane leaves the ground. Plus where possible let's segregate slow canopies from fast ones. Very rarely do you ever see Cessnas landing with the big jets (and when it does happen the Cessna is expect to maintain a higher approach speed than it normally uses). If aviation can come up with rules for slow versus fast wings, why can't we? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

That show was great (Less and his taped office walls) and of course this episode was a classic. A few years ago WKRP was shown in syndication reruns and I caught a number of shows. Thanks for the good memories peeps ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

I see the trash talking is alive and well in the PAC NW ... BTW check the standings at the end of the season national championships comp in CO when it counted. Maybe if you got off of that 9 cell and maybe if hop along Tom would stop hurting himself during the big comp, you two peeps would have finished ahead of me. But you didn't. Oilberta here in Canuckland maybe a wasteland in the winter, but we have a lot of oil to sell to all of you energy consuming chicken #uckers and the value of my house keeps going up and up as you guys consume more and more. Oh and it wasn't the cold that got me all ornery the other day. It was being called "not economically viable". I think as CJ mentioned in his last post, it's fine and dandy if this is a SDAZ only policy. But to start a crusade for more DZs to adopt their rules is reason for concern and reason for more of us to stand up and offer constructive alternatives to the DZs we jump at that will listen. But we have to admit that there is an issue that does need to be addressed. Brad remember that little altercation you had with a certain visiting show boating videographer at the Pitt boogie last summer and I too had my close call at the same boogie with a slow canopy in the dedicate high performance swoop lane (which while I still say was more the other guys fault, I am not innocent). My close call could have been eliminated with segregated landing areas, but yours was a simple conflict of airspace between two swoopers (which I have on video filmed from above in case you didn't know ... DD from Pitt firewired it). Anyway the time to go big is not when everyone else is in the air. That time should be reserved for competition and/or practice assuming more of us aren't deemed as "not economically viable". Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

As long as more DZs don’t “economically viable” us, we swoopers still have options. I have had nothing but positive experiences towards swooping in the last couple of years at Mile-Hi in CO, Perris Valley in CA, Skydive Oregon (well their pond could be cleaner), Kapowsin in WA, Snohomish in WA (well not so sure about Tom, Smiley, Todd, Bryon, Kelly and especially Brad … but everyone else was cool) and of course the two local BCs DZs I jumped at last summer and the one Alberta DZ I visited last October were also positive towards me (plus while I’ve never been there, Lodi has inexpensive hop n’ pops right?). So if SDAZ wants to shun us swoopers, let them shun us. Let’s just hope that the buck stops there. PS: We swoopers do need to clean up our act and swoop more responsibly in traffic otherwise it is hard to defend what we do when we take non-swoopers out. Killing ourselves is one can of worms, but killing other people should not be accepted. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

High pulls are fun and well worth the jump ticket. I know Smiley likes them as well. When they are not ultra busy (like during a big boogie), hopefully SDAZ is open to CReW passes like Perris Valley will do. As long as you follow Perris Valley's don't cross the runway until X altitude, I know they've let me do high pulls at their DZ on a reasonably busy day. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Funny you should say that because while I was there at Perris (I was doing some canopy coaching with Jim Slaton), I had some friends from Colorado (Mary Sant-Angelo to name one of several) who were in those big ways and they said the same thing about my swoops. Choose your poison right. On a side note on one of those jumps, Mike Swanson and Eli (I think) did a sit fly jump in the middle of that 100+ way big-way and it was one of the most bad ass things I have seen. Sure I only saw it on video, but to be able to sit at such a slow speed in such a big group, truly one of the cool moments in this sport. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

That's a no brainer ... Let's say there is an experienced 8-way exiting first, followed by another experienced 4-way and and an inexperienced 4-way. Then the freefly group I am in. Well as I said it's a no brainer. I'm going to let those experienced guys (in both groups) have at the swoop lanes before I ever thing about entering the swoop pattern. But ... Let's say I am immediately following this 8-way and for some bizarre reason we all plan on pulling at the same altitude (not likely but possible), I could still give than 8-way 10 seconds seperation out of the door and be opening simulateously as they are (haven't your ever watched the groups open on jump run ... it's not uncommon for freefliers to be opening at the same time if not before the belly fliers). In this case guess who's closer to the landing area and has a better shot at being first down? But if they plan on taking it lower then me, then once again I'll let them have first shot at the landing area. Once again it's all about knowing who's on the load, what kind of jump they are doing, where they plan on opening and what they want to do under canopy. Know this before the airplane even takes off, have a plan and the adjust the plan based on what actually happens in the air. There are no guarantees that everything will go off as planned, but it's still better than the chaos of not communicating. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Your words ... not mine. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

No!!! I'm saying be aware of what the other groups are doing, what altitudes they plan on opening and what their landing plans are and then plan your entry into the pattern(s) accordingly. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Absolutely not ... but if I'm in that freefly group, I need to be aware of the belly swoopers ... just as they need to be aware of me. You know I might just ask those belly guys what altitude they plan to break off at and pull at. If it's low in the basement, then I'll be more than happy to sequence myself after them. But if we're going to be all pulling at the same altitude and my freefly group follows theirs, there is a good chance that I'll be positioned to land before them. It's all about communicating ahead of time and agreeing on the plan. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

I'm not interested in big-ways but I would say no. Dress for success right ... use the right tool for the job. X-braced canopies are engineered for swooping and since swooping is probably the last thing you want to be doing on a big way, then why use that tool? But what do I know ... I'm nothing but a Homeless "economically viabled" hop n' pop swooper. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

The largest formation I have ever witnessed in person (from the ground of course since big-ways aren't my cup of tea) was a 100+ way out of Perris Valley a few years ago and yes the sound of all those dead men/women in freefall and the crack of their canopies is impressive. I can only imagine what a 400 way would be like. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Also maybe it's time that DZs re-invent the job responsibilities of "load organizer". I know some DZs do a decent job of communicating with each other as to who is planning on doing what before we leave the ground. But maybe more load organizers should be asking people who is planning on doing what under canopy before they even load the airplane. That way there is at least some sort of plan instead of relying on the "big sky" theory and all the potential chaos that comes with it. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Oh contraire my friend. This segregate fast lane I speak of is open to all types of speed inducing turns. But swoopers must always know when to abort their swoop. Plus good swoopers communicate with each before the airplane even leaves the ground. We decide on a landing direction and we decide on order of landing. Obviously what I speak of has no place at a large boogie, but for normal "high" speed fun we can achieve harmony if we comminicate with each other before we even leave the ground. Nothing will ever be perfect. Danger will always exist in such a less than safe sport. But segregating fast canopies from slow ones is a step in the right direction. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

I'm sorry you lost the picture (from the movie "Pushing Tin") If we had segregated landing areas, then fast canopies and slow ones wouldn't be conflicting with each other. Swoopers would not be making the big turns in airspace occupied by people who don't want to be around swoopers. So if more people knew how to handle crosswinds, then they would be less likely to be against bi-directional landing lanes. We would be segregated, then the only conflicts would be between fast canopies and other fast canopies and slow canopies would be conflicting with other slow canopies. I don't know how you see things, but there is always going to be the potential for conflicts. But swoopers (at least those that know what they are doing) know how to handle conflicts with other swoopers and I'm sure if you did a poll the vast majority of us swoopers know the risks we take and accept them. It's just not right for us to be swooping in the same traffic with people who don't want to accept our risks. Oh and a message out to my fellow swoopers. Please if you are learning to swoop and/or learning the bigger turns. Take your training to hop n' pops and/or high pulls (assuming we don't all get "economically viabled"). Normal freefall loads are not the time to be learning new swooping skills. You're only rolling the dice if you think you can have your cake and eat it all at once. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

For the DZs who have the luxury of having tons of land, then sure. Let's split up the so called main landing areas into these segregated bi-directional landing lanes I speak of, while still having a nice big open area for those who wish to follow predictable landing patterns to land into the wind. BTW ... the convergence of the northeast corner of Eloy's two respective landing areas is potential black death as far as I'm concerned when the winds are out of the south and the landing direction of the north area has been set by someone to go west. Hopefully the Eloy regulars (ie: their coaches) who are usually the first ones down are setting the direction go east when the winds are out of the south. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

Excellent ... in fact I think the Scott Miller and Brian Germains of this world should spend less time teaching newbies on how to fly their canopies and teach more experienced people on how to teach people what's in their respective heads. Then there would be more Scott Millers and Brian Germains meaning more qualified canopy coaches available to teach newbies canopy control. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over