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I know you have to address this situation Bill, but I really don't mind this individual at all. In fact I find it incredibly hillarious. If you will go look at his/her profile, you will see that he/she only has one post to their credit. It was someone that obviously I have pissed off so they went and created a new "handle" just to come talk trash. Imaturity at its finest, this person didn't even have the gumption to say it from a stand point of who they really are. I find this amazingly immature and a definite quality of someone that can't handle pressure in the least. On another note, I agree with what you are saying about the AFFI ratings. I have just been getting tired of hearing a bunch of people saying that we need to lessen the standards, make it cheaper to get ratings all just so we can have more instructors. I have been the devil's advocate and chosen to take the extreme side of things. I have worked really hard to attain all of my ratings and I don't plan on slowing down anytime soon. I believe that anything that a person wants bad enough is worth working towards. As for the difficulty of any rating program out there. Personally I think that they are pretty good, but to lessen them in any way would be a disservice not only to our sport as a whole, but to any new and upcoming students as well. I am tired of posting on this thread anyway. I have stated my views and opinions. I have received knowledgable replies as well as varied opinions. When it comes down to the point that people start making personal attacks......well I know that I must have struck a nerve somewhere. I no longer wish to irritate anyone, nor did I ever have the intention of doing so in the first place. My personal goals are to make our sport stronger and safer for all invlolved, whether they are experienced or up and coming newbies. Mr. J T Flick, whoever you are.....I am sorry that I offended you, but personal attacks are the wrong way to go man. Lets keep things on the ADULT level. .......and yes, by the way, I do pay rent. Thank your for you concern Live today as tomorrow may not come

Just some advice for spinning line twists. Hopefully you wont ever have them again, but chances are you will. If altitude allows for this, look up to see which riser set is higher. Either left or right. Then bounce on the leg strap of the high side to get it down even with the other side and your canopy will stop spinning. This makes it a lot easier to kick out too. I learned this while flying a viper 120 one time. I had a wicked line twist (4) that was diving like a bat out of hell. I tried to chop it, but I didn't have hard housings in my risers and my cutaway cords were bound up so I couldn't chop it. I look up at my canopy everytime on opening so luckily my head wasn't pinned down by the risers. I evened out my harness and risers and after having me horizontal with the canopy, it came out of the spin like a champ. I then proceeded to clear my line twists and didn't have to chop anything after all. If I had a hook knife, I would have been cutting risers. Instead I used my head, stayed alive and learned something. I have since used this technique 2 other times and one friend of mine has used it as well. Keep in mind that altitude is key here. I would suggest to cut-away if below 2,000. I always pull @ 3,500 though. I like not having any reserve rides to my credit. Just a thought and a shared experience. Live today as tomorrow may not come

I am going to jump in and interject here for a second before this gets ugly. I think what skybytch is saying is that the cost of the course keeps a lot of people from just going out and getting a rating for the heck of it. I agree with her on this point as well. I really don't think that anyone is going to ever put you or anyone else down for working your butt off to get to where you are financially. I personally commend you on your achievments. It is still a fact that Tandem and AFF ratings are pricie. For one, they are that way for the reasons I just stated above in my reply to phreezone. The other thing is that the cost of these things kind of helps to keep just anyone from going out and getting a rating because it is easily affordable. The last thing is this. There are a lot of people that skydive full time and are really poor because of it, like me for instance. I personally, like others have had to put in a lot of blood, sweat and tears to physically earn the money to get our ratings. I don't think in any way did Skybytch try to imply that she would respect you less because you are financially more stable than a lot of people who are skydiving. Dang, all of a sudden I feel like a moderator I hope that I cleared things up before they went too far. Live today as tomorrow may not come

Well, I personally think you are doing yourself a great justice with that decision. From my calculations, you will still be flying a 150 @ 1:1. Just remember that no matter what you get, you need to always ask questions and be open to advice. I have just under 700 jumps and I frequently ask questions to people that know more than I do. Just ask Jim Slaton or Chuck Blue, I have bugged those guys to death. Good luck brother and remember to keep that canopy over your head for at least another 200 jumps..........it keeps the scalp from getting sunburned Live today as tomorrow may not come

I agree 100% Ian. Caution will lead to a long life with fewer broken bones or messed up backs. Live today as tomorrow may not come

ok, but then you have to figure in the cost of gear rental, most tandem candidates don't own their own tandem rigs and DZ's don't let people jump them for free. Then, lets figure in the cost of the Phase II jumps as well, but don't forget to figure in $40 for both slots and the usuall $25 for gear rental on the tandem. So lets see, that is $65 per jump......times at least 5 jumps.......so if my math is correct that is another $325 added to that $500 you paid just for the course and Phase I's. I believe that total comes to about $825.00. My course alone was $350, I then had to pay gear rental and double slots for ten jumps, $650. That total comes up to $1,000.00 bub, get your facts on everything. A tandem rating isn't just a course and your slot man, it is a lot more than that. For AFF, you can look to spend about a third more when you include all of your practice jumps and pre-course jumps and then your course and eval jumps. It aint cheap and further more, I ain't bitchin! I am just working hard to get it done! Crybabies need to stay home if they can't handle it! This sport is for adults. I don't have a rich mommie or daddie to pay for my stuff, I work and earn it with a smile. I suggest that everyone else out there do the same. Do I wish that skydiving wasn't so darn expensive.....Hell Yeah!, but it is and we have to deal with it. If someone has a problem with the cost of things, go out and talk to the insurance companies, fuel companies, aircraft owners and airport committees as well as hangar costs. Oh yeah, let raise hell with Ted Strong or Vector for their tandem rigs costing so much and see what they tell you. You might learn how much those guys have put into their R&D as well as insurance and manufacturing costs. I agree that there are a lot of people out there that would make damn good instructors that can't afford the ratings and yes that disheartens me a little bit, but that is the price we have to pay. Things just aren't cheap in skydiving, if they were, then more people would be getting hurt because of faulty equipment and poor instruction. Tandem and AFF are both really demanding disciplines and I am personally really happy that their is a high price to pay because it keeps just any ole joe schmoe from going out and getting a rating. It helps restrict things to people who are really dedicated and who don't care about the cost of what it takes to get there. On average, most DZ's spend a lot more to keep things open than they make in profit. There are a few dropzones out there that are making money, but for the most part it is for the love of the sport. Live today as tomorrow may not come

Well another thing you need to consider here too. You jump in a place that can jump year round. This guy is up north and has had a lot of time in between jumps AND he has really low jump numbers. I don't care what the wing loading, nobody under 50 jumps needs to be flying anything smaller than a 150 in a zero-p canopy. It is just an unneccessary risk. Take the time to learn on the big stuff while you can. Your life and canopy skills will greatly increase because of it. I don't know what kind of math is being done here, but this guy weighing 115 is going to be over 1:1 on a 135. The last time I checked, the gear he is talking about weighs about 25 pounds and I seriously doubt he is going to jump shoeless and nude. In fact, using the handy dandy wing load calculator, I am finding that this individual would be loading this canopy @ 1.111:1. This being that the rig weighs 25 pounds and his clothes, helmet, altimeter, goggles and shoes all weigh less than 10 pounds making for 35 pounds of gear. This would make his exit weight more like 150 pounds. Yeah, lets put a low timer with under 75 jumps on a 135 with an exit weight of 150. Gimme a break! Think about what you are saying people and consider where this guy is jumping as well as keep his frequency in mind. RozeAY, all of this post was not directed completely at you so please don't feel like I am jumping on you here......ok. I am responding in general to all of the posts I have read on this thread. Live today as tomorrow may not come

So are you implying that a sabre 135 @ 1:1 is going to fly exactly the same as a sabre 170 @ 1:1? I sincerely hope not, because they won't. The smaller canopy will dive faster and turn much faster. This is a really popular misconception, that is why I ask. Live today as tomorrow may not come

The only thing I can see that an airplane pilot could bring to the table for canopy skills would be that they might be a little more used to the depth perception issues from the air. Other than that, I don't think an airplane pilot has diddly squat of experience to offer for canopy flight. It is a completely different world, no way comparible. I have been flying airplanes for 14 years. I never used my airplane skills when flying a canopy because there is not one cross referrance. Just one more ignorant fallacy in my opinion. Live today as tomorrow may not come

Uh oh.....I guess team extreme better get out there and start practicing now. I have a feeling Clawson has his work cut out for him now Has Atair decided on anyone to join Eric? Live today as tomorrow may not come

This would be a good time to tell you what you should have done. If you weren't going to cut-away, you should have retrieved that reserve pilot chute. Personally, I would have tried to speed up to get the thing out and then would have done a transfer. On the other hand, if I were above 500, I would have chopped that sucker and here is why. On jump number 76 I was still flying student gear. I was under a Pisa Skymaster 200 loaded at 1:1. I cranked out a hard spiral at about 850 feet. As I was planing out from my spiral I felt something like turbulence and then something pulling on me. I looked back to see the reserve slowly snivelling behind me. In the time I took to glance at the reserve it opened and my main instanly went straight down in front of me. I was in a down plane in less than 3 seconds. My student cypres had fired under a good canopy. Screaming at the ground with increasing speed I knew I had to chop the main. I did at about 650 feet. I had enough time to make a 270 degree turn just in time to set up for final. If you have a reserve pilot chute in the wind, I would suggest either getting the reserve bridle in your hand if possible or speeding up ASAP to get that thing in the air and chopping the main as fast as you can. If I had fired that cypres at about 300 feet, I might not have had time to recover from it. Anything lower than 300 feet and I would probably be dead or close to it. FOOD FOR THOUGHT Live today as tomorrow may not come

I don't know what dream world you are in pal, but a tandem rating cost more than my camera set up. It took me 2.5 months to work it off. Honestly, I don't care if someone can afford a rating or not. If they really want it badly enough, they will find a way to make it happen. I know that I did. All I do is skydiving. I am poor as hell, but I am willing to get in, pack my butt off, shoot vids, do tandems, pick up trash, wash airplanes or whatever else I need to do to get where I want to be. I am not going to sit back and whine because rating is too expensive. It is expensive because the guys who are giving the course have paid their dues, worked their butts off and accomplished something rather than sitting back whining about it. They really care about what goes on in the sport and are willing to make the needed sacrifices to get it done. I really wish that skydiving was free, we all do, but it isn't. In fact, it is expensive as hell. I have never been more poor in my life. I would love to go out to a nice dinner once a week or live in a 4 bedroom house and drive a sports car, but the fact is, I love skydiving more than all of that and my dedication to student training supercedes all else I do in my life. I skydive for fun maybe one out of every 10 jumps and then that is usually just a hop-n-hook so I can stay current on my little rocket. I don't feel sorry for anyone that says they can't afford a rating these days. There are ways it can be attained, all you have to do is work for it. Live today as tomorrow may not come

uh...............did someone say "FIRST" .....and did it involve free flying........I think that means........GOOD BEER Live today as tomorrow may not come

I want to see that damn purple monkey too. That SOB stole my firewire Live today as tomorrow may not come

It is hard for me to completely understand what you are saying here. Can you explain what you are saying a little better for me? Live today as tomorrow may not come

well I believe that the common ground is to allow the sport to grow into what ever it can grow into then. I agree that training and safety need to go hand in hand. I don't want to see anyone get hurt needlessly, but at the same time, I don't want to hold the sport back because someone might make a bad decision one day and hurt themself. When the day comes that we hold ourself back from competitions on TV or high publicity competitions in general because some moron out there would discover our sport and join it only to kill themself, then I say we are doing ourself an injustice. From the first time anyone comes to the DZ to learn to skydive they are taugh the seriousness and dangers of what we do. Especially where swooping is concerned. More often than not, I see whuffos see a swoop for the first time and they think they are about to see someone go "splat" because that swooper is diving like a bat out of hell towards the ground. We can't select who is going to learn to skydive, just like we can't select who is going to learn to swoop and try high risk activities in skydiving. I honestly believe that having swooping in the world games would be great for the sport because it would show the general public that modern parachutes can be flown with really high precision, accuracy and safety. Now, if the swoop competitions involved someone dieing every other jump, then yes I would agree with you, that would be bad for the sport. However, for the most part, swooping doesn't have that happening. Sure, accidents are going to happen from time to time, but wouldn't it be justice for the sport of swooping to be able to show the general public how many safe jumps there are compared to how few injuries or deaths there are in comparison. Quite honestly, I really believe that having a huge spectative audience would make the swoopers fly a little safer. We don't want to give our sport of skydiving a bad reputation. It is already bad enough. We just want to compete and have fun. If there is a chance for us to take what we do to the Olympics and World Games, then great. Would it make you feel better if competition swoopers decided to name our sport something different and try to tell people that it is something completely un-associated with skydiving? After all, we aren't really skydiving. We are just hopping from a high platform into a fluid in which we deploy an inflatable wing so that we can come down and scream across the ground. I don't mean that with sarcasm, I am being serious here. Would that make you feel better? A lot of swoopers do only swooping. Personally, there are days where I do nothing but Hop-n-Hooks. Live today as tomorrow may not come

Did you know that a Sabre is actually faster than a stiletto? Overall, a sabre is a faster canopy. The forward speeds are the same but the sabre has a faster vertical speed than the stiletto which makes it a little faster. To say that a sabre is not a HP canopy is kind of wrong. If a sabre is wing loaded high enough, it is quite capable of doing the same things that a stiletto is. I have never owned a sabre, but I do know people who do and they swoop those things just like they are elipticals. The sabre is a Zero-P canopy that is a square, but never under estimate its potential! It will kill you just as quick as any eliptical out there. Maybe even quicker because people think that they aren't HP. Live today as tomorrow may not come

Congratulations on your retirement and thank you for your service to our great country. Now, whats up with this PD thing? Live today as tomorrow may not come

I used to have a slider that would never stay collapsed during a high speed dive and it would always get caught up on my helmet as well. What I did was replace the original "pull up" keeper lines with ones that had a much larger and heavier "stub" for retention. The next thing I had to deal with was that the ends of the slider kept inflating and causing the thing to ride up against my helmet again. My solution for that was to sew on some velcro "keepers" on the ends of the slider, front and back. After I would pull the keeper cords, I would mate up the velcro. This would keep the slider held together and would not let it slide up the risers to spread out and inflate. All together, it would take about 10 seconds total to stow everything and I didn't have anything attached to any flaps or myself in any way and the slider would stay put where I wanted it to. If I can find my old tapes from some of those jumps I will snatch a still from the video and send it to you so you and your rigger can see exactly what I was doing. I had to sew a piece of velcro in line with the HOOK side of the velcro so it didn't cause any un-needed wear on any part of the canopy or slider during deployment. I would just unstick that part and then wrap it around the whole slider and remate it. All total the velcro was about 3 inches long on each side. I also used industrial velcro. The hooks weren't as small and pointy. (less abrasive to the touch) This seemed to hold better too. Just make sure that the "hook" side is the one sewn completely to the slider with the "loop" side being the one that wraps around the slider. Makes for easier replacement when needed. If you don't have a collapsable slider, I could see where three of these velcro holders would do the trick quite nicely. Talk to your rigger about it. It is a ten minute sew job and really cheap to maintain and a lot safer than having anything attached to the rig or yourself. Live today as tomorrow may not come

I believe that shutting down any DZ is the wrong answer. I say we address the situation and correct it. If the problem persists, then put the DZ out of business and put the person responsible for the dangerous activity in jail for gross negligance to human life. As for publicity....lets keep our family problems to ourselves and remedy the problem from within. We already have a bad enough reputation just because we jump out of airplanes. We don't need to make it worse by publisizing someone's stupidity! Live today as tomorrow may not come

Well, the first thing that I totally agree with you on is that the student needs to be taught how to control themself in free fall as well as when and how to enact emergency procedures. There is no replacement or option in the world that is more important than that. Ok, this brings up my point that our instructors should have a more strict "in flight" evaluation process. Personally, I can accellerate to 200+ mph in a sustained and controlled dive. What you say about a student in a flat spin is quite correct, it isn't a very fast situation at all. One of the things that an AFF JM is taught to do is to catch a student, fly in and stop the spin and get them on their belly if need be. At least any practice AFF eval jump I have ever seen incorporated this. My point being is that our standards for instructors/JMs needs to be higher and not lowered for the sake of having more instructors. Please forgive me for picking apart your post on this, but I have a difference of opinion here as well. I believe that the main responsibilities of learning is the student's. It is up to the student to take in and enact the training that is done on the ground. There is no arguement there. The thing I slightly disagree with is that you put the instructor/JM and an AAD as the secondary means for life support. I think that the AAD should never be trusted to save a life. This is a huge fallacy in my opinion in the sport of skydiving as a whole. An AAD was developed as a "really good idea" for increasing a persons chance of survival. If you read the warnings on the owner's manual of any AAD you will find that it explicitly says that it is not to be used solely as a deployment device. This means that it could mess up and not work. Personally, I am going to take my students high enough to have time to fix anything that might go wrong. I am going to pay attention to altitude along with my students performance and if my student becomes unstable at 5,000 feet, well they are going to have one hell of a long ride down to think about why I "pulled" them. It is NOT an option for me to have one of my students have an AAD fire. The only time one of my students is going to have an AAD fire is when I am unconcious and have one myself. I don't believe in taking a student out at a low altitude and trying to "beat the clock". Altitude is mine and your friend. Our airplanes go to double digit thousands or close to it and I think that we need to utilize this for training instead of hoping that our student learned everything and more importantly, hoping they are going to do it right. Letting an AAD be a secondary life saving device is poor instructorship in my opinion. However, as a last resort, it is a damn good idea. It is just my opinion that altitude along with a competent instructor should be the secondary means with the primary means being the students responsibility. After all, aren't three options always better than two. I am really glad that my instructors didn't have this attitude. I might not be alive right now if they had. It is not an option for one of MY students to get hurt if I can help it. One student fatality is NOT an option for me. Altitude, flying in with my arms up protecting my head, a good helmet, and an AAD all in conjunction with a good flying ability will save any student from deploying while on his/her back. To say that it is ok for a student to deploy on their back is ludicrous. I have seen the broken bones and near death experiences that come from attitudes like that and I don't find it to be acceptable in the least. I couldn't agree more with that statement, however, I do disagree with an instructor using an AAD as a secondary means for stability. This is just my opinion here, but I tend to follow these rules in my head on a student dive: 1st: teach a thorough and accurate ground school and make sure the student understands it thoroughly by repeated demonstration. (repeated demonstration also builds muscle memory) 2nd:Do everything in my power to assure that my student has a really good skydiving experience by keeping him/her safe on the dive. I do this by allowing enough altitude for recovery if things get out of control. I would much rather tell a student that they failed the dive because of instability than visit them in the hospital to tell them they failed and I am sorry that they have broken bones because I couldn't fly well enough to save them from themselves in conjunction that I didn't take them as high as we could have gone which would have made things easier. A deployment while on your back leads to a 50/50 chance of an entanglement of legs and suspension lines. This is going to break bones or kill most people and probably lead to the individual never skydiving again. I know that if I were on student status and had to land on my head because one of my instructors opted to let my AAD fire while I was on my back instead of him getting in to help me......well, I would never come back and I would end up bad mouthing skydiving for the rest of my life.....if I was even able to talk. Live today as tomorrow may not come

An old skydiver that was part of the first RW jumps in Texas. I don't care one bit how much new revenue is brought into skydiving. Skydiving for me has never been about making money. It's been about skydiving skydiving is moving faster than training can keep up, and it's killing people. If you want to improve skydiving, work on teaching people how to live through the experience - don't push them to be on TV. Quote Nobody is pushing anyone to be on TV in any way what so ever. If an individual wants to improve their personal talent level to a certain point, then so be it. If that individual is going to be a moron and try to do it all in one weekend and not go on the advice of the people who actually know about it and then he kills himself while doing it, then I am not going to feel sorry for him one bit. There is an order of progression and safe ways of doing things. If that leads to the World Games or Olympics for a person then I am going to be the first to congratulate them. Competition swooping is no different from competition RW in the fact that regulations for competition don't affect regular skydiving ops. If a goof ball goes out and does a downwinder into the middle of a crowd of normal jumpers landing into the wind......well that indidvidual needs to be grounded for the weekend to think about it, if it was done intentionally. Keeping any form of our sport from growing in any way is communism in my opinion. Live today as tomorrow may not come

i did misread what he had wrote first of all and the fact that a rear riser landing will stall at a higher speed. I apologize, I was half asleep the other night when I posted that one, sorry However, I think that it needs to be stressed that practicing rear riser landings doesn't need to involve the ground. Students can practice rear riser landings up high very easily. I also encourage the constant use and practice of flying a canopy with all four risers on every jump, but to lower jump numbered students I encourage them to fly "normal" below 1,000 feet unless an emergency is present. Sure, a student loaded at 1:1 is more than likely going to be just fine doing a rear riser landing, but I feel like this should only be done in an emergency. If you have toggles for landing, why not use them? Isn't that why they are there. I say practice up high and land like normal, but be prepared to use alternate means if needed. Live today as tomorrow may not come

Ok, I understand your point as well as a few other people in here concerning the fact that a static line JM's main focus it to teach and observe. However I feel like this is a fallacy. Pretty much anyone with a lick of sense can teach a FJC and then go watch a whuffo jump from a plane. What I am saying is that I personally feel that any free fall instructor, whether SL or AFF, should have to be able to chase, stabilize and pull an out of control student. What happens when you have a 7 jump static line wonder that decides to go stupid on his 2nd 10 second delay jump and flip on his back and spin like crazy. How many SLIs would be able to chase and stabilize that student and then deploy them if need be? This is my point here. I have seen plenty of students do just fine on the static line only to go out and flip like crazy as well as go into some wild spins on their first 5 second delay. What happens when this first time free faller gets tangled up in his suspension lines because he was on a low dive and by himself, although he had demonstrated a great body position and form on the static line. Do you just sit back and say........"well, the student screwed up!" BS!!! In my opinion the 5 and 10 second delays need to be abolished, the free fall JMs need to be able to do things right and a first time free fall needs to be high enough that an instructor would have time to get in and fix a problem. Leaving it up to the student is as outdated as a round is for sport jumping. These are just my opinions, but I feel very strongly about them! Live today as tomorrow may not come

I really feel that the concerns are un-founded fear of something that has no relavance over skydiving in general. It was said by someone earlier that other countries have canopy restrictions. I really believe that if the USPA tried to do something like that, they would see a drastic number of current members not renewing their memberships. The USPA is a self govering body and contrary to belief, the FAA really stays out of what we do other than instruction regulations for things like tandem. Actually, the FAA has even said that Tandem Skydiving now has a permanent waiver to do so instead of the temporary waiver that was in place for a while. Live today as tomorrow may not come