listo

I am suprised that nobody has mentioned riser length. This is just my humble opinion, but I find it a lot easier to reach all the way up to the point that my toggles are tight against my brake ring. I had the problem of being 6'4 and having long monkey arms. I needed longer risers to be able to reach where I needed to without being restricted. I am using 22" in risers and they are still too short for me. I am getting some 24 inchers to see if that works better for me. Either way, you will feel more secure and in more control if you are spread out (pushing out on the risers) front and rear instead of pulling them to your chest. Again, this is just my personal opinion. Find what ever works best for yourself and go with it as long as it is safe. You will most certainly find yourself changing little things here and there over time no matter what approach you take initially. Live today as tomorrow may not come

St. George, South Carolina I am going to talk to Jack about maybe flying some hop-n-pop loads on that friday before, for anyone that may want to come get used to our "tight","little" ......DZ. If anyone is interested, let me know. Live today as tomorrow may not come

Count on me and Papachulo being there as well! Spence, how about some barefoot electric 8-ways!???

I have known the folks at Blue Sky Adventures for over 4 years. Everyone is always friendly and willing to make a jump with anyone regardless of their experience. The camper sites and showers are always kept clean and functioning. An RV park is located 1/4 mile from the DZ if all slots are taken at the DZ. On clear days, the Atlantic is clearly visible. Close surrounding areas include "Shreks Swamp" which is highly visible and there are plenty of outs located around the surrounding 3 mile area. Cross country canopy flights happen at least twice a month. The RW scene is highly progressive with numerous regulars that possess awards and medals. Quite often, the RW teams there are in competitions. The Free Flying scene is a lot of fun with everyone always willing to try what ever! The swoop scene is up and coming with positive work towards a new swoop pond. Careless swoop activities are always adressed in a polite manner to ensure the safety of all involved. Overall, BSA is a very safe DZ yet they are willing to let it all hang out! It hosts the Harvest Moon Boogie (one of the most politically incorrect boogies in the USA) every October. It is definitely a place that you will remember as a lot of fun with a laid back friendly atmosphere.

This subject has a wide variance of answers. First of all a 180 is no different than a 270 in respect to altitude when both are flown correctly. Personally I fly a Velocity 111 loaded @ 2.1-1. My hooks range from 450-850. It depends on how much the wind is blowing. In lighter winds I tend to make my turn a little higher and vice versa for higher winds. My rate of turn is dictated by how high I am. If I am lower, then I have to increase my turn rate, but at the same time analyzing my altitude vs. my canopy attitude in case I have to "bail". Just a thought... maybe you could do a paper on how many people that are swooping are actually flying their hook turns or just snatching them and then dealing with what they just got themselves into. Blue Skies, Sam EXTREME EVOLUTION SCHOOL of CANOPY FLIGHT

I have found that there is a huge gap in the description of what exactly a carving turn is. Honestly, there are two viable and accurate descriptions. FIRST there is a flat carving turn. SECOND there is a diving carve. I have found personally that the diving carve allows you to enter the hook at a much higher altitude. By adding harness input, I can maintain my rate of turn based off of the altitude that I have allowed for myself. The added altitude is where you can build up the energy needed to power through the plane out phase of the swoop. It is entirely possible to dive vertically without having to wrench the canopies heading in an extreme radical manuever. If anything, a snap hook seems to me to really kill any distance. Where as the high, long, smooth carve from heaven seems to deliver the most devine elements of speed and distance. peace out! Listo

Just one more point to consider..... is there ever a swoop that was exactly like the last one. Once in a blue moon but not likely. There is always going to be a little different wind or lighting or altitude or something that will be different. The point is to fly each swoop to its potential. The mechanics of swooping is much better understood if the focus is concentrated on flying each flight based off of what the situation is presenting rather than trying to fly a set procedure. I think procedures tend to cause more close calls and injuries than the hook turns themself cause. Just a thought Listo

I have to agree. A nice, solid, smooth 270 from around 650-700 agl on my velocity 111 is resulting in some incredibly long and fast swoops. My WL is 2.1:1 and even in 10 mph winds, I have been acheiving those self satisfying speeds and distances. The 180's are fun and they have their own little bah-zzing about them, but they don't afford the time or mechanics of a 270. With a 270, it seems like ............ahhhhhhhh ....yeahhhhh baby! SpEeD KiLLs! ...... so Do StD's Listo

LMAO.....don't take advice from me, I almost killed myself on jump # 156 by flying @ 1.7 on a viper 120. I think that what JGarcia has said makes pretty good sense. You need to evaluate for yourself if you are ready for something. You can always take into account what others have to offer, but you are the one that has to get yourself on the ground safely. As much as advice and suggestions can help, there is no excuse or safety net that will save you from poor judgement. I would say that if you can land your current canopy in any given scenario and you are 100% confident in your ability beyond any shadow of a doubt, then demo a X-brace. This is what I did. I have demo'd a velocity and a VX and both of them to be highly exciting rides. The main thing that I noticed right off of the bat was that jumping from 2.0 on a stiletto to 2.3 on a velocity was one hell of a radical difference. Even the same when I jumped the VX @ 2.2. When you downsize, you will not only have to learn how to handle a completely different canopy, you also have to learn how to handle the increased wing loading. After talking to a few highly knowledgable swoopers, I learned that the Xaos27's peak handling wing loading falls in around 2.1. From what I hear a VX is right around the same, maybe just a little higher. I can't say much for the Velocity as my research was geared mostly towards the 27 cell planforms. Personally, I am ordering a Xaos27 "custom sized" to fit the exact wing loading that I desire. Having jumped the higher wing loadings I know what my capabilities and limits are now. The best thing you can do is to get with some highly experienced cross braced pilots somewhere (preferrably a canopy school), let them assess your skill level and help to guide you to your selection. There is a lot of talent to learn from out there in regard to X-braced canopies. In this day in time, there really isn't any need for anyone to try to be a pioneer anymore. The way I look at things is this....you can take your time to make a good decision and regret the rest of your life how long it took to make it....or.... you can make a rash decision and spend the rest of your life regretting how little time you took to make it....its up to you. Common sense and vigilance will keep you healthy. Remember, spring fever is hitting everyone right now. Don't let it get the best of you. Good luck brother, be safe ......and HAVE FUN! Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

You bring up a very valid point. The best swoopers have indeed been in the sport for a while, which not only means a lot of practice, but also being around a very wide assortment of experience. For someone to try to classify a student training progression as a good means for canopy skills is a fallacy. Different instructors with different abilities can teach different things at different places. I would suggest to anyone that is even possibly thinking about HP flight to get to a skills camp and go to as many DZs with reputable HP canopy pilots as possible. More often than not, if a person restricts their skills to only one DZ, then they are not going to be nearly as good as they could be by going elsewhere and observing the truly wide range of methods and techniques. Just my .02 Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

Brother, I am really scared for you right now. Just remember this, it takes even the best canopy pilots well over 100 jumps to "master" any canopy. I would suggest putting that canopy in a safe with a lock that requires proof of jumps and experience to open it. Your chances of getting hurt on a 135 are really high if you jump it with less than a total of 100 jumps even at your wing loading. It doesn't matter what your wing loading is. Smaller square footage canopies are higher performance regardless of wing loadings. Please keep this in mind. A triathlon 135 @ 1.0 will respond faster than a triathlon 150 @ 1.0. Unfortunately there tends to be a great misconception that wing loading vs experience is the only thing that needs to be considered when a person is considering down sizing. Some of the things you need to consider are: Dropzone altitude-altitude above sea level (MSL altitude) Safe alternate landing areas around the DZ or any DZ you may be jumping at. Hazards around your DZ or any DZ you may find yourself jumping at. Wing loading experience. Controlability of what you are currently flying. (If you can't land it downwind or crosswind in 15 mph winds, you don't need to downsize) DO NOT GO OUT AND ATTEMPT DOWNWIND LANDINGS Accuracy with your current canopy- Being able to land it ON TARGET every time. If you can't, then you don't need to downsize. Please put that "weapon" away and don't let it tempt you until you are WAY PAST READY TO JUMP IT. If you jump it "when you are ready", you might get hurt. It is common knowledge that jumpers with less than 300 jumps are the most dangerous not only to themselves, but to others as well. Canopies can turn into weapons in less than a second. Be smart and stay healthy/alive. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

I have limited experience swooping over water. I would like to hear some views on this from people who actually have experience doing it. What are some of the dangers of this? Please leave speculative posts out of this for right now unless you are an experienced pond swooper. Thanks, Listo

Well, one thing for sure that will stop a spin is a canopy in the wind. If that canopy goes to the crapper because of a terrible line twist, at least you weren't in free fall anymore. A speeding canopy is nowhere nearly as fast as a human in free fall. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

If I were on a bigway, I might be inclined to wave off and track when everyone else did. By bigway, I am referring to at least 8 people. I might also try to get a glimpse of someone elses alti. "If in doubt, whip it out!" If I were on a solo jump, I would wave off really big for about 5 seconds at a height that I knew was higher than normal pull altitude. I would also make sure that I was tracking away from jump run. I would dump high just to ensure safety. No need to go lower for extra free fall if you know that your alti is failing. Common sense applies here.......use it and stay alive. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

Uh oh, another one of us walterboro guys chiming in here. I have to say that it really doesn't matter which method of training a person goes through. Canopy skills are something that people differ in ability of as much as the difference of a lot of people out there with 500 jumps will differ from each other in ability. I am not sure that made sense....but I think I get my point across. Walterboro is truly a wonderful place to learn canopy skills. It is hugely wide open. That wide open place offers tons of outs for those of us who wanted to expand our skill level for HP flight. There aren't many DZ's out there on the East Coast that are that open. I consider myself fortunate to have lived only 45 min from there when I started skydiving. The experienced people that I learned from were always friendly and willing to offer advice or a critique. I really haven't been to many other places that work together like that, instead of "I am a bad ass and wanna stay that way, so I ain't gonna teach ya sheeeeeet". People with that attitude make me laugh. Insecurity is hillarious to me. Good advice is always a good thing for everyone. Live today as tomorrow may not come

dont forget to mention that the bungee cord collapsibles are also dangerous because they can re-inflate during canopy flight, especially on higher loaded canopies with faster forward speeds. Those things are just bad Ju Ju waiting to happen. Modern gear is always a plus, after all, the gear is getting more and more safe and reliable everyday. Why not stay up to date? Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

OMG, who forgot to cock their pilot chute That is like forgetting to stow your brakes. Do it once and I bet you won't ever forget it again. Most Kill-line pilot chutes have a window somewhere on the bridle that indicates whether or not it is cocked. Obviously this person didn't get a "pin check" or proper "gear check" before getting on the plane. Otherwise, it would have been noticed. I personally check my PC while I am doing my pin checks before I ever put my rig on. I have never had a problem like that. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

You wouldn't be pushing for an Icarus sponsorship would ya? I can't wait to get my Xaos 27. I like the heavy front riser pressure of the VX in turbulence, but I have yet to see a VX that opened as nice as a Xaos. If that guy is jumping a camera set up as heavy as he is talking about, he won't care much for a VX if he ever jumps a Xaos. Xaos openings are just out of this world, it is the only canopy I have ever seen that opens better than a crossfire. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

Oh boy! Here we go! To NOVA, or not to NOVA? Personally, I have always jumped 9 cell planforms, except for my ONE reserve ride. I just think that 9 cell canopies tend to have a higher performance range. The 7 cell planforms tend to typically have a slower forward speed while having an increased vertical speed. The 7 cell planforms are much better accuracy canopies. Both canopies have their own type of flare so they really aren't comparible there. Horizontal distance ability is somewhat different for the two types of planforms. Typically, the 9 cell canopies can fly further. However, both canopies are capable of impressive cross country distance when flown correctly. Some canopies fly better distances when flown in rear risers and others fly better in brakes. That is something that has to be worked out on what ever you are jumping. When it comes to cross braced canopies, there are some 21 cell (7 cell planform) that can out fly certain other 27 cell (9 cell planform) canopies when in the right hands. The truth is......both canopy types are good. It is just a matter of what you want to do with a canopy that makes one better than another. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

uhhhhhhhhh......well........uhmmmmmm. Nevermind, I don't care to discuss this. Both have their good points. However, I feel like AFF is the better way to go. Please don't ask for my reasons why. I won't tell because I don't want people jumping down my throat about it. Just my .02 Listo

100% correct! You make a very valid point. I commend you for saying in one paragraph what is has been taking me pages to do. Thank you. Live today as tomorrow may not come

I agree that every jumper out there needs to be able to use visual referrences for altitude awareness. However, I disagree that jumping without an altimeter is the best way to acheive this. I tell all of my students that they shouldn't trust their alti 100% all of the time. I suggest this in conjunction with giving advice on how to learn to use their eyes. I tell my students to make an educated guess on their altitude and then cross ref with their alti. I tell them to do this at least 5 times from the time they leave the airplane, with at least 3 of those being while under canopy. The reasoning for more times under canopy is because it is the lower altitudes and those altitudes are the most important. Especially if "you" are still in free fall the next time instead of being under canopy. "Altimeters can and do fail from time to time" is what I tell them the reasoning is behind it. More often that not, altimeters DO NOT fail. Not only is an altimeter a good means for altitude awarness, it is also one heck of darn good training device for visual accuity. There is not one arguement otherwise if common sense is applied, and it should be. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

I wasn't trying to say that he was jumping at a less than par DZ. I was just suggesting some alternatives. I also wasn't saying that he should do what I said, just throwing some options out there. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

First of all, static line progression isn't outdated, but there are other options. If one training method isn't working for you, then I would suggest trying a different one. After all, it is your money that you are spending to learn something that you seem to really enjoy. Don't let frustration get the best of you. Take you time and don't forget to enjoy it. I would also suggest going to a wind tunnel if there is one nearby. You can learn ten times more in 5 minutes in a tunnel than you can on 5 jumps, body positioning wise anyway. The other great thing about a wind tunnel is that you don't have to save your life. You can learn without pressure. I have sent 3 of my students to a tunnel that were doomed to failure. All three of them are now really hot skydivers. Granted wind tunnels are few and extremely far in between, but it is worth the drive for the experience and confidence you will gain by doing so. The other thing to consider is this. A C-182 has a really low exit speed. This slow air can make you feel like it is taking forever to correct something. If there is a DZ nearby that has a larger airplane, go try that. The faster air might help you to have more control from the exit vs. having to wait for the wind speed to build up. I am in no way saying the C-182 DZ's are harder to learn at. I am just saying that it might be easier for someone to explore their options a little bit. Listo Live today as tomorrow may not come

Well said Liemberg! Dayle, as for my feelings on alti use, well, I believe that you are correct that someone needs to be able to see if they are low or not. However, I don' t know any first time jumpers or people with less than 50 jumps that could recognize the difference between 3,500 and 2,500. Hopefully, if they are like me, when they even get close to that altitude without an alti, they will pull instead of taking it lower just to get a few more seconds of free fall. After all, altitude is everyone's friend. The more you have, the safer you are because you will have more time to fix something gone wrong. My point is this, sure, you don't really need an alti for a ten second jump, but that 10 second jump isn't over once the ten seconds is over, there is still a canopy ride to deal with, patterns to be set up ect... Now, if you are referring to someone learning visual altitude awareness, well there isn't one person that is going to learn that in one jump my friend. That has to be learned from repeated jumps while incoporating the "practice" of learning visual accuity. It is much safer to teach this by doing a visual guess and then cross ref'ing with a visual alti. Suggesting otherwise is simply ignorant and closed minded. Lets say that a student or low timer is under a low wing loaded canopy (usually most of the time, or should be). Visual altitude awarness is used for timing purposes, to see where you are vs. where you want to be at a given time (given time: altitude, ground location, relativness to other canopies ect...) Ok, this happens to be a hot summer day and the thermals are kicking like crazy, that low wing loaded canopy might float for a while. Isnt' this going to make the jumper feel like they might have misjudged their altitude since it is taking longer to get down than they thought it would have been. Wouldn't it be better for that jumper to be able to see that they aren't coming down as fast as they thought they were or the opposite of that....what if they are coming down faster than normal? How can anyone say that jumping without an altimeter is a viable way to learn visual accuity? It is a huge fallacy. Human beings have horrible depth perception. If someone gets to 3,500 and their alti locks up, then five seconds later if it is still reading 3,500, something is wrong and pulling would be a good idea Here is something to think about. If you will notice, all birds have their eyes located on the side of their head. This is for two reasons. First it is so that they can see more of what is around them. The second thing is this. Depth perception is attained from peripheral vision. A bird's peripheral vision is directly in front of them, unlike a human being's which is at the sides. As humans we learn that we have to look where we are going so we don't run into things. How many low time jumpers do you know that are going to concentrate on their peripheral vision, not many. They are going to look at the ground or a spot on the horizon. While looking at the horizon helps to use peripheral, it still isn't as good as solely using peripheral vision to judge altitude. The other thing, how is a low time jumper going to know what "picture" to see. After all, they haven't been doing it long enough to really know what that picture is supposed to look like. The other thing, what if that jumper is at a different DZ where the picture is different? You say that you jump all of the time with an alti. Why is that? You say that you don't jump with an alti on ten second delays. Why is that? I am going to suggest that your mental clock is something you trust. I don't trust a low time jumper's mental clock personally. Low timers are just that, low timers. After all, it is common knowledge that a person's first 200 skydives are their most dangerous. It is because they don't have the knowledge and experience that us more experienced jumpers have. Lets not increase the risk of them getting hurt by having them guess at altitude. After all, altitude is the one thing that keeps us from dieing on every jump. If we lose altitude, it won't matter if we have a good canopy over our head or not. It sucks when someone presents a point that differs from what we believe. It sucks more to have to change our views that we believe in because someone else presents a better and safer way of doing something. Leave the ego on the ground and help our students live longer, after all, they are the life blood of our sport.