doughboyshred

OK - so that should be the cap for the interstate healthcare then. not the interstates that sneak in illegally from the mexican border ! You mean the ones that we pay to come here. Let em die. fuck em. Right?

Not true - the people that I am forced to support because of their inadequacies are not driven on. In fact if I used them the same way I would hve to go to jail. So, no. it is not the same. Yeah, actually it is. It's all about the common good. A lot of people do not use the interstate system, but we all pay for it, because having a good one is good for the community as a whole. Having a healthy populace is also good for the community as a whole.

This is true. Didn't think about that possibility. I doubt many illegals are working the system that way though. Remember their intent is to stay invisible, not end up in jail.

Losing a job is not a choice, and health coverage for a family of four would cost over a thousand dollars a month in most instances. A loss of income due to the financial issues the entire country is facing should not result complete destitution and loss of life. Losing a job is a choice - evidently the person working the job did not work hard enough to make the job important enough to keep. I should not be forced to be responsible for other peoples failures and inadequacies. Insurance costs are not a 1000/mo - BASIC coverage which is what the goverment is touting is only about 300 dollars per month. Less if you only go with major medical. Why should I be forced to give up the money that I worked for to support someone that cannot keep a job? I should not be forced to be responsible for other peoples failures and inadequacies. you're completely out of touch with the realities of todays job market. People are losing their work because of downsizing and closures, not because they didn't work hard enough.

sales tax isn't the mechanism through which they'd be charged if they were to not buy the mandatory insurance package that will be required. they use fake SSN's so if they don't pay their federal income tax, who is the IRS going after? Some poor schmoe who is the victim of identity theft. current law (in TX at least) ensures that the ER cannot turn anyone away. so I'm not saying turn them away, I'm pointing out that they can't be turned away. what insurance options would HCR have provided that couldn't be provided by a private insurance company? so I still ask... if, when mandatory insurance purchases come into effect, an illegal immigrant doesn't purchase their insurance, how are they going to be charged the penalty for that? Through their income taxes that are levied against a fake SSN? Income taxes are withheld from their paychecks. They don't file for refunds. Tax penalty for not obtaining health coverage comes out of the refund, which they are not filing for in the first place.

Losing a job is not a choice, and health coverage for a family of four would cost over a thousand dollars a month in most instances. A loss of income due to the financial issues the entire country is facing should not result complete destitution and loss of life.

So a family with a child that is fighting leukemia should be kicked out on the street to watch their child die, if they lose their job and can't find a new one in 3 months that provides health insurance that will cover their childs pre existing condition? Having a system like you suggest would be horrible for our society. The ranks of the homeless and sick would multiply drastically. The effects on our economy would be staggering.

Nonsense. It's been clearly documented that illegal immigrants pay taxes. Typically they pay the same taxes most employees due but they don't file for refunds. Most undocumented workers use fake ss numbers to get employment, so they are taxed. They are also taxed through sales tax mechanisms, etc.. Suggesting they don't pay taxes is disingenuous. My point, however, is that refusing to treat them is morally wrong, and therefore not an option. Providing them help to obtain insurance is cheaper for the tax payer than providing them with ER care. This doesn't really matter though, because Republicans were able to ensure that the HCR bill didn't provide any insurance options for illegals.

Yes, of course, because ANYONE that isn't in favor of Obamacare is in favor of people being 'left in the street to die'. If that's all you can bring as an argument, you might as well stop now. Reading comprehension, it's a dying art. That comment was in direct response to the concern about illegal immigrants getting health care coverage. They are here, that's not the debate. They either get health care coverage through the emergency room or through insurance, or they are denied health care. Which do you prefer? Which is most economical for the taxpayer? Which is morally reprehensible?

Department of Homeland Security claims 11 million. Census bureau claims less than 45% are uninsured. That's all irrelevant though. This is not a discussion about immigration. It's a discussion about reigning in the cost of health care in this country and how that can be done. Currently immigrants (legal and illegal) without insurance still can get care at the ER. The cost of this is exorbitant and the tax payer typically gets saddled with the cost in some way or another. It seems illogical to me to rant about providing a path for illegals to get health coverage, when that could lower the cost that we pay for their health care. If you believe they should be left in the street to die because they didn't fill out the proper paperwork to be here, then there is nothing worthwile to discuss with you.

Yes, it is a low priority for them, which is why they end up going to the emergency room and getting care which costs the taxpayers much more in the long run. This is why there had to be a mandate for coverage. A lot of people, especially the young, don't think about health coverage until they need it. Wow! More illegal immigrants are uninsured than there are in the country. Amazing. It's not a matter of desiring a socialist utopia. It's a matter of common sense financial reality.

That would do nothing to help the uninsured, and would have little to no effect on rising health care costs. It would also do nothing to affect rising health insurance premiums. It's a nice politically convenient sound bite though. http://washingtonindependent.com/55535/tort-reform-unlikely-to-cut-health-care-costs

Pretty much. A public option would have forced insurance companies to keep prices in check. Instead they now have a mandate that provides them with a bunch of new customers, while they can essentially raise prices as drastically as they would like (within a loosely regulated framework). The HCR bill was far from perfect, but doing nothing (as the republicans have proposed) would have been much worse, and still we would see health insurance premiums rising dramatically as they have every year for as long as I can remember. Do you right wingers actually think that your premiums will go down if the Republicans manage to implement their farcical pledge to america? btw, I have grey hairs and am a licensed general contractor. So, I'm not young, and I do pay taxes.

Lack of price controls, which the right fought tooth and nail, and would not have been an issue with a single payer system.

Not far enough. And, in some ways too far. Some aspects of the bill leave a bad taste in my mouth. (requirement to purchase health coverage, 1099 reporting, etc.) Most of those could have been avoided by going to a single payer system, though. They also could have been avoided if the repubes had been willing to come to the table and discuss real reform, instead of simply screaming NO and using everything they could to their political advantage. Nobody should have to worry about losing everything they and their family have worked for due to an illness or injury. This is a real concern with our current system, which before the various reforms come in to play still allows insurance companies to rescind coverage after an occurrence with no cause. Simple question: If a stranger was injured in front of your house would you help them? I believe any decent person would answer yes. Health care reform is simply taking this scenario to a national level.

I'm right there with you. Fun shit, ain't it?

All of our experiences, good and bad. lead us to where we are. If at any point you are marveling at how happy you are and how wonderful your life is, you owe it to all of your previous experiences. Including the bad ones.

I guess different courses are different, but I've been taught, reach thousand, pull thousand, check thousand, arch thousand, two thousand, three thousand, four thousand, five thousand, canopy check, The first check is just a quick look over the shoulder to break the burble.

have fun! The more the better IMO. Get as much fun as you can.

That's what fucked me up on my last jump. I wasn't prepared to stick my head out of the plane and look down. It messed up my head. So, I can say for certain that at Snohomish they are teaching us to spot.

watched it again, and said, oh, holy shit. I didn't realize how bad it was diving to the ground, or how low he was at that point. Thanks for pointing that out.

My heart stopped watching that. Scary.

I admittedly don't know shit, but I had worse line twists than that on my first jump. I grabbed the risers and pulled them apart as hard as I freaking could while kicking and it took care of it in seconds. It didn't look like you even tried to pull your risers apart. Is this because of your elevation, you just didn't feel like you had time to deal with it? Or did you feel like you were spinning in to more line twists? Good work staying alive.

I thought 2011, but they must have meant 2012.

A friend works in banking and overheard the other day that financing is on track, and they are still shooting for a January opening.