nigel99

yeah sorry, should have copied the pic. For those who havent seen the original, the person being gripped has recently passed away in a skydiving accident and this picture is from a media article about him. I don't like doing rw with people who dont have grippers, although I recently found that it was a good challange keeping an open palm grip on a tight freefly suit during an 8 way. i genuinely enjoyed having to 'fly' my slot to maintain good contact. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

THEY say it can't fire.... They also thought these units were perfectly fine - Till they were not. Simple fact is that they are making a guess based on a problem that they didn't know they created. I'd say being aware that they might also not know what else might happen is a very valid position. Blind faith is foolish. They said that the unit cannot fire because of this problem. Not that that it will be 100% error free once this has been fixed. Besides, statistically, I'd say that they are correct as we have not seen any unit fire in freefall caused by ESD even though millions of jumps being made. What is your agenda really? You do realize that there has been hundreds of saves by these 'faulty' devices and perhaps 20 deaths that could have been prevented if the person had an AAD in their rigg? The FUD you are spreading isn't exactly making skydiving safer. Statistically speaking that is. Ron made the point early on that he does alot of team jumps and the 'fix' of remembering to press a button prior to every jump is not nice. It results in him having to change his procedures that have been ingrained over 6000 odd jumps. So I see Rons agenda as simply being a disapointed and probably angry customer. Ron has always promoted safety here, and I don't for a moment think he is suggesting people stop using AADs. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I got my knuckles rapped when I was learning to pack tandems, because I missed that on a rig. It's a good point to consider as IF it is possible, it could result in a broken riser or inability to cutaway. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

In the recent news photo of the Aussie fatality, on a belly jump, a jumper is using the 3 rings as a grip and actucally twisting it quite far. This photo is UNRELATED to the fatality, but it got me thinking. Does it simply not feel right and is actually safe? I would be worried about the cutaway cable being dislodged or pulled back through. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I'd rather say you carefully read the information provided by the manufacturer instead of blustering in the forum, huh? The information is provided, and if ya read it: Freezing is what MIGHT happen; firing won't. EOT ok i had read that before and the article that 0eter %hapman posted by Airtek on their ESD testing procedure. In the ESD testing document they state the reason for high levels of static DURING deployment. Which statment is correct, as these statments directly conflict each other? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

when it comes to equipment like harnesses, reserves and AAD's I think it is a good idea to put brand loyalty aside and consciously question the data. The worst that can happen is significantly more than 'just freezes'. I'd say no AAD manufacturer would knowingly mislead people, but there is tremendous pressure by the community to release information and fixes quickly. That can result in incomplete or even completely inaccurate information being released. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

does that mean that they are having trouble turning it ON ? seriously ? Yes I've experienced a few rigs that it is more difficult/temperamental to turn the AAD on (both Vigil and Cypres). The plastic on the rig itself is not very pliable and requires more force than normal. That can mean 2 or 3 attempts to get it to turn on as the timing gets screwed. I'm not implying that they require 10 minutes of fiddling and messing around. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

well you can try, but you will be quickly categorized as a liar... If it doesn't flash, the display still shows 0v , and is like "frozen" on a normal ON display. If it turns OFF, it is not frozen well on a reasonable number of rigs it is genuinely difficult to press the button through the plastic and get a response. The SB tells you if it doesn't flash it is faulty. My guess is that many people will genuinely worry at the lack of response in these circumstances and send the unit in. Doesnt mean they are lying, simply cautious. As normal with jumpers every single one of these incidents will be classified as failures. So i expect to see the reported failures rise dramatically over the next few months. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

State big way attempt? so when are they holding the warm up trials/camps? and where is the attempt gazetted? I havent seen any State council announcement of it. I've been trying to find out more detail from Shirley. It keeps being dropped into conversations regarding the Easter boogie. Also look at her comments on the 16 way FB event. I don't know anything more than that! Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

March is going to be great, other than my wallet and wife are going to hate me! 2nd March - 4 way scrambles 9th March - CRW coaching by the recent Bronze medal winner in Dubai. 16th March - 16 way coaching by Australian 8 way champion 23rd March - hosting a sports accuracy competition 30th March - Easter Boogie and state big way attempt! Western Australia where skydiving happens

Some pilots/drop zones won't give you a go around due to the wasted money and time. You either get out where you are, or ride the plane down and waste your jump ticket. That's an unacceptable choice. The DZO needs to have a serious talk with them about cooperating for everyone's good. My point still stands. You can choose to ride the plane down. Nobody forces you to have a long spot. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

it sucks when people have a bad attititude and spoil your fun. If it is a national team, send a polite profanity free email to their embassy or sports ministry. Nobody wants their country portrayed badly. My only other comment is, only YOU are resposible for your spot. If they have screwed it, a go around or stay in if you aren't happy. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

A quick question for you. Why do you feel that an open rig is more vulnerable than a closed rig? The Cypres control box is in the reserve pack (at least in every rig I have seen). My control box is actually against the side of my reserve pack tray and you can see the outline. The display head/human interface on most rigs doesn't appear to be more or less protected with a packed or unpacked rig. I'm not trying to be a smart arse. I think earlier in the thread Billvon also implied that the packing mat is where it is vulnerable. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Make sure you remove all the Nylon from your rig. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Hey William, my point is that discharging 16kV (approximately) of static is not pleasant! You certainly notice it, when you build up static on a carpet and discharge into a door knob or whatever. Regardless the ESD testing of products is normally pretty rigorous and at levels that make you flinch Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Agree completely NO AAD is perfect and I wish people would remember that and not swallow the marketing hype. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

As the issue is ESD related, once the unit has locked up, it will not fire some time later. That is why they are saying that it wont fire in the plane or mid air. When the rigg is closed, the unit is much better protected from ESD. It would require a discharge of over 50 kV for the discharge to reach the Cypres. You will be kicking and screaming in pain long before that happens. I understand that you are frustrated that you cannot always get what you want but you really need to learn some of the basics around this issue before you claim that your world is crushing down due to this. I disagree. Firstly in many (most) instances higher level of integration on an ASIC (Application SPECIFIC integrated circuit) is done to save cost. So speculatively Airtec went to cut production costs and their testing was inadequate - leaving their customers screwed. Unless they are using ASIC for a general purpose IC, the ASIC is probably specific to them and changes would have been commissioned or approved by them. Interesting to see them blame the manufacturer. If the issue is genuinely ESD related, and it would be interesting to know the facts on this, then it is probably in an unstable state. You can't predict HOW it will react, which is why 10% of the faulty units MISFIRED (1 in 14 units). If you've ever done ESD testing, for something like a Cypres it will be an air discharge of 8-16kV typically. If people were experiencing that level of ESD while packing we would know about it - it is not pleasant. I feel for them, but part of selling products like this is having good follow up customer service and contingencies for a major product recall. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Actually despite my jokes and Squeaks concern, my views concerning tandems have changed enormously over the past few months. I'm not a TI, but I do work as ground crew helping gear up passengers. I find it striking how many people are jumping for really life changing reasons. Previously I only saw it through the spectrum of carnival ride or student. But while it is a carnival ride for some, and others are genuine students, the 'milestoners' usually touch my heart. We had a woman in her late 60's recently on holiday from Japan. She had wanted to jump for over 20 years and struggled to find the courage. Her husband was so scared he went to play golf and only wanted to hear when she was safe. Another recent guy was your stereotypical dweep type character. He had lost over 30kg and had reached his goal of 100kg. He was terrified of jumping, but had promised himself that if he achieved his goal he would jump. He loved it and set himself the goal of coming for another jump at 90kg. I loved seeing his self confidence grow, from having the courage to follow through. So all told, Greg may come across badly. From his online persona I doubt he'd fit in with regular jumpers, but if he'd like to do a tandem good on him. And if Wokka uses the fifth attachment point, I'm sure other TI's would oblige Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Peter, I agree that it is the software and electronics that are most likely to fail. That said, if someone came into the market with a Class 3 medical device background, or specific areas of safety critical design in a mainstream regulated industry, or specific aspects of military design (not all military design is hi-reliability). Personal experience is that everyone is an expert UNTIL they have to actually do it. Then they discover all the tradeoffs and just how difficult it actually is. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

12-14 team jumps in a day.... Yes, having to change my routine that I have had for 6k jumps to make up for a device that was supposed to be "set and forgotten" IS a big deal. Then there is also nothing to prevent it from turning off AFTER I did the prejump check..... Static buildup does not just happen on packing mats. And it seems you didn't read the SB: "In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon." I think it is pretty enlightening how many people simply do not understand the gravity of the situation. You've got a good point, after 6000 jumps, you have to learn a new procedure. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Isn't that a huge leap? The fact is that the problem is FOUND on the packing mat. Who really checks an AAD at other times? I don't believe many(any?) people are pressing CYPRES buttons on jump run. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

It's unknown how many non-working CYPRES 2s there are out there, but seriously... this has been a problem for 4 years. How many "unexplained" CYPRES fires have there been in that time? None? Are you *really* that afraid that you'll have a reserve out because of this? Well there has been at least one 'unexplained' CYPRES fire - it is in their own service bulletin! It is also a stretch for them to claim the problem happened AFTER it was placed on the packing mat. The truth is that it FIRED on the packing mat, nobody knows when it became unstable. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

you say you check, but do you press the button to make sure it is still responding, or do you simply look at the display? I jump a Vigil and check the display after every jump - I don't press the button to verify that it hasnt turmed into a brick though.At this point I don't intend to change my procedures for my gear. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Come to the west coast and do a Tandem. We have some great instructors... Please dont wish that on us Nigel Dodgy Tommo will set him straight, that and me gearing him up You've seen the granny video, we make make a WA version Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Come to the west coast and do a Tandem. We have some great instructors... Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.