TomAiello

I think that JT is right, and that drawing law enforcement further into this little family quarrel is the wrong way to go. The more we can regulate ourselves, the less likely that the authorities will want to regulate us. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

And here's JT's response from BLiNC -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I got this via email from JT, who is apparently having trouble logging in here (I'll see if we can work out the login issue so he can post for himself). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Precisely. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Here are some of my thoughts on this: I'm actually a lot less worried about Shane putting some guys off for an "amusement park" jump than if he were actually trying to teach people with no skydives to BASE jump. Admittedly, he's done the latter before (when he taught JT to BASE jump), but that was not the case here. Continuing to do the things that the sheriff asked them not to was really very bad. Doing it with a TV crew there so the sheriff was certain to find out that jumpers were disregarding his requests was even worse. If Don called the sheriff that was probably the wrong thing to do. Keeping this kind of thing "in the family" is definitely a good idea. I'll email this link to Shane and JT and see if they want to comment. Let's try to avoid turning this into a flame fest. I'll keep a close watch on how this thread develops. Discussion of ethics and commentary on the ethics of the situation are acceptable. Name calling and pointless yelling are not. Thanks! -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

OK, I just got back from the bridge. Here are some facts, presented in as unbiased a manner as I can manage. Shane McConkey, JT Holmes and Miles Dasher were jumping. They had several videographers and photographers with them, apparently doing some kind of PR/magazine/video thing for use with various sponsors. I believe that the PR folks were mostly there tagging along with Shane. They were jumping from the top of the rail, which is a violation of one of the very few rules here. Shane admits this was wrong, and apologized for it. JT was jumping with a pair of waterskis on. Shane reports that he put two of the camera guys off the bridge on his gear. He called them his "deathcampers." He emphasized that they were not his students, and would probably be unlikely to jump again. The sheriff came out to talk to them. I'm not certain what brought the sheriff out. Shane reports that the sheriff told them that Don Mayes (the boat driver) had called the sheriff's office. I didn't get a chance to ask Don if this was the case. The sheriff asked them not to stand on the rail. The sheriff asked them not to jump with the waterskis on. I am uncertain as to the degree of confrontation between the jumpers and the sheriff. Don reports that the conversation had a certain "we'll do what we want" tone from the jumpers. I did not ask Shane about this. After the sheriff had left, the jumpers continued to jump. They continued to jump from the top of the rail. JT also continued to jump with his waterskis on. After the sheriff had left, two TV news crews came out to film the jumpers. They were there by arrangement with the jumpers. I am uncertain if this arrangement was made before or after the conversation with the sheriff. The news crews filmed the jumpers, standing on the top rail and jumping with waterskis. The spot was on the evening news here in Twin Falls. I'm reasonably confident that at least someone at the sheriff's office will have seen the footage, and be aware that the jumpers disregarded the sheriff's requests. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Bridge Day "First Jump Course" is totally different than a real FJC. It's intended to get as many folks as possible off that one jump as safely as possible, on that one day. Don't confuse the two. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

One of the reasons I agreed to help moderate this forum was to provide a more "balanced" liberal/conservative spectrum in the moderation. I agree with you, generally, on the war and the service issues. I agree with Bill that you are having trouble telling what is a personal attack. This isn't about who the moderators agree with/are friends with/etc. Be warned. Bill seems quite hesitant to ban you on this issue. I'm not. It's time to drop it and move on. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Where did you go to school? I think that this kind of thing mostly happens at public schools (I went to the University of California). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Many people have made their first jump at Bridge Day. It's one of the safer ways to go. The safest way to go is still to take a real First Jump Course, because then there is direct guidance every step of the way. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Many Universities turn merit based awards into very small "honorariums" based on "need" (i.e. how much your parents earn, regardless of whether or not they are helping you foot the bill). Where I went to school, the merit scholarships that gave a full ride became a $500/yr honorarium if your parents combined made more than about $40,000/yr. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I just got this error when trying to post: I imagine it's a "too many people" type error, but I dunno. Figured you'd want to know. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I guess that makes you a Lemming, then. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Probably the draftee. He'd be fighting for his own survival, and for the man next to him (in other words, me). I don't tend to trust True Believers of any stripe. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

As far as I know they are not. They are supposed to have your picture on them, and there is a background check of some kind, so it'd be hard to transfer that stuff. Maybe if you sold it far enough in advance for the background stuff to be done on the new person. I'm sure Jason will let you know when he gets a chance. I imagine right now he's a bit busy. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

OK, here's the names: Shane McConkey, JT Holmes. Possibly a third jumper (I'm sure we can all guess who the possible is, but let me check and see if he was there). Comments from Shane or JT? I'll try to chat with Shane tonight and see if I can post an update. In reference to the Felix thread: Interesting that this crew is also sponsored by Red Bull. Perhaps it's time to organize a more effective anti-Red Bull campaign? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

After the first jump with the water skis the police asked them not to do it again. After that, they repeated the water ski jump with the local TV news cameras present. That's the problem. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Hmmm. 20% off S3's? Wonder what's coming down the pipe... Still, I think I'll hold out and order a Phoenix suit. I've had two BM suits, and I'm very happy with them, but I can't wait to see what Robi has up his sleeve (up his wing?). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Rescue costs are borne by the government, mostly. But if the government has to bear too much of them, they'll just stop the jumping, I'd think. Hence, having a jumpers group contributing to rescue costs is (a) very good PR, and (b) a major proactive step in maintaining site access. I'll pay the fees to the Stavanger folks, thanks. I think if you worked out how much they make for each hour they've put in, you'd find they're making something very negative (right now), and something like a dollar an hour (in the long term). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I've experienced both emergency and routine health care in the US, Italy, Czech Republic, Switzerland, and Malaysia. US health care was, for me, by far the best of these. I really think it's a case of "you get what you pay for." I'll take the best, thanks. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

This makes me laugh every time I see it. Have you ever seen the series of BASE videos called "Lemmings"? Seriously, though, carrying over arguments from one thread to another will tend to make all threads you post in devolve back to the same argument. Maybe try to leave that argument in the thread where it started? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I travel alot. I still keep the things I have at home. It'd be silly to go thrusting my American attitudes on everyone just because I was travelling. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Train to Stavanger, then ferry to Lysebotn. I took the train from Oslo to Stavanger last summer. It cost me about 40 US dollars (but exchange rate was much better then). It took quite a while, but I was on the scenic train. I think there is a more express train as well. There's a train station pretty much at the Oslo airport, so it's not hard to catch the train from there. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I'd just leave my guns locked up somewhere in the States. I certainly wouldn't get rid of them just because I was leaving the country for a while. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Ron and Kev, You guys both need to ease down a bit. Maybe take a few days off from Speaker's Corner, or something. What do you think? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com