TomAiello

Wouldn't it be funnier if it was Ted Kennedy who had to dive into the water, trying to recover something, and coming up empty? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I dunno. I went to a fairly substandard American public school, and I remember that stuff. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

That's pretty much how it's taught in American schools. Franz Ferdinand definitely figures prominently, as does Gavril Princip (sp?). Most American schoolchildren would probably tell you that WWI was a military response to a political assassination. I don't think anyone over here is teaching that the Germans started that war. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Sounds to me like the guy ought to have had his license yanked a long time ago. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I thought fowl language had you chewing on feathers? Sorry, couldn't resist. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

And if you can do that 30 times a day, you know what we call you? A moderator. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

That's pretty much exactly what I did, and then everyone started questioning me. I'm just trying to answer your questions. Um, you could have actually listed the information that didn't appear, rather than holding it back until an opportune moment to fire it into the middle of a debate. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

You could have just made your first post in this thread something along the lines of: "The article missed some important information. Here's some things I know from following the case..." Most of us aren't going to doubt that you are familiar with something local to you. Well, most of us except for Ron, who, given the way you incessantly bait him, may be justified in doubting every word you post. Regardless, I think I'm done worrying about this until I actually have more facts. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Dude. You just keep pulling out extra pieces of information as they support your case. While that may be an effective way of "winning" an argument, it's pretty pointless. Why not just share all the extra information up front, instead of getting people worked up to argue with you, then revealing that you've worked them up without giving them all the information? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Again, I see no mention of a jury anywhere in the article. Obviously, you have more information than we do about this. Why not just share the information, instead of revealing it piecemeal to "score points" in an argument? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I don't think so. I think that they (the hypothetical mistake-admitters) are. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Um, it says that they are pragmatic and realistic? Or perhaps that they are Winston Churchill? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

It sounds to me like your changing the scenario in midstream here. I didn't see anywhere in the article that it said he had any knowledge of any kind that the firearms would be resold. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

If they are liable for not doing so, then de facto, they must do so. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Actually, in a peripheral way some of them did. Some of those present were members of the jumping club which runs a service ferrying jumpers to the top of the hill (in a van), and back from the landing area (in a boat). Why would that make a difference? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I don't believe they ought to be held legally liable. A few years ago, I had a friend die BASE jumping in Norway. He was trying to outfly (in a wingsuit) a ledge that was around 400 feet below the exit. 20 or 30 people told him it was impossible. He wanted to try anyway. With a dozen people standing around watching, he tried it--and bounced off the ledge. Do you think those bystanders were responsible for his death? They _knew_ he would die if he tried that. The could have restrained him, and dragged him off the exit point. There comes a time when you must accept responsibility for your own actions. And let others take responsibility for theirs. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I've got to go with Ron here. Holding the gun dealer liable is a bit like holding a bartender liable if you drive drunk when you leave the bar. I don't agree with that, either (yes, I know it's happened). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

So, with no google (just for you)... Honestly, I'd say that the events resulting from the first world war were more significant from those leading up to it. Previously, European wars (and most other wars) were fought as "gentleman's conflicts". No real mass armies (although that had it's roots in the Napoleonic wars, particularly with the Levee En Mass), repatriation of officers and nobles at wars end, very minor territorial concessions, etc. But the end of WWI was completely different. Entire nations were dismembered and forgotten (such was the fate of the Austro-Hungarian empire). Largely, I'd blame the American influence on the peacemakers in Paris for this (remember Wilson's "prisonhouse of peoples" comment?). Still, this idea that the map not only could, but _ought_ to be redrawn along ethnic lines had massive consequences leading up to the second world war. It's fairly easy to see the ideas beginning with Wilson's misguided attempt to "free" the minorities in the Austro-Hungarian territory leading almost inevitably to Hitler's attempts to "unify" the ethnic germans into a greater Germany in WWII. I'll stop rambling and admit that I don't really understand your question. Which events leading up to the first world war are you thinking about? Why is it that people always assume your using google to find things, when there really are people who have knowledge still stored the old fashioned way--in their brains? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I don't have to. How many people do you know (not just Americans) outside of Hungary who can tell you what the Treaty of Trianon even _was_? But I'm sort of cheating, having spent a year of my university time in Budapest, I've had several courses on Hapsburg history. BTW, Austria didn't fight in WWI. By that time (post 1867, if I recall correctly), it was the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Would you like a short discourse on the transformation of the Habsburg empire into the dual monarchy? Or perhaps a dissertation on the Treaty of Trianon and it's effects? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I doubt it. Picture a hypothetical war scenario involving attacks on the US by Chinese forces. Do you really think our NATO allies would sit around and refuse to help? I don't. Same as I'd expect us to rally to the defense of european territory were it invaded. The fact that we yell at each other on these boards does not mean that our leaders are foolish enough to abandon our alliances. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I, for one, believe they would. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Hey, who needs personal responsibility when you've got lawyers? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

There are several posters here who jumped with him. I'm assuming this is knowledge shared amongst "us" that isn't publicized on his political site (because it's not real relevant there). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

"Beware of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors, and miss." - Robert Heinlein -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com