Scrumpot

Understanding how to pack one, can be a beneficial thing too, eh Darren? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Looks to me, like it ALL in there! However, if your looking to possibly JUST insert only the "updated" pages.... ...???? Hmmmm.... coitus non circum - Moab Stone

More than 1 per every 100 jumps?? WOW! Ever consider a remedial packing class maybe?? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Yeah, you're right. I had to scan all the way across to the end of your sentence (the 2nd "PDF" mention) to find it! THANKS! -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I guess where this is a Cypres (entitled) thread, that is fair. And in actuality, I have no argument with the Cypres being available, as a potentially life-saving device at all. In fact, I myself have one in my very own rig. Will I still jump without one however? Yes, I will, and have. My comments regarding having a tangible respect for ones own actions, and their potential consequences, applies (again) instead to the event that lead up to (causing) the cypres fire in the first place! Am I glad the Cypres was there? - YES Am I glad that it actually WORKED too? - ABSOLUTELY! However, and as we've even seen as clearly evidenced in several of these threads is the attitude of "let's just leave it at that". ...And THAT professor, is what I am saying is WRONG (a disservice I think is what my earlier word was). Do you disagree with that? What if next time the automatic activation DEVICE fails?? ---Or is not turned on, or is not even there (for those that choose to jump without). Taking away from the event KNOWLEDGE to potentially prevent this event's recurrance in the 1st place, in COMBINATION with understanding the reasonings behind one's own personal CHOICE to have an AAD (or not) is what I am striving for. ...Unreasonable? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Because she was saved by her Cypres (not a bad thing ...and I am NOT disparaging that, before anybody jumps on me!) ...and now as a result, that is ALL anybody wants to apparently talk about. Forget about learning (and maybe hopefully either her, or somebody else in the future maybe AVOIDING this scenario/potential incident altogether). Even bring it up, and get accused of being "critical" of the jumper for even being saved in the first place!! Peolpe need to learn how to separate the 2. Being "critical" and examining the actions which led up to the event, are how we (and others) LEARN from it. Otherwise, this jumper (and others) would not be allowed to even have that OPPORTUNITY at all (oh -ooh ...don't say anything to her ...so, she was saved by her Cypres ---so long as she wasn't a danger to others -also arguable btw- who cares? I think was the paraphrase), which in reality would be the biggest DISSERVICE OF ALL IMHO. Blue Skies all, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

In real terms actually, I see quite a few skydivers who I do NOT think consider the consequences of their actions at all. Sure, we all "know" that if we don't pull we're goin' in (unless you have one of those fancy doo-dad Cypres thingy's on your back ready to go FOR YOU that is ). So many have tried to make it all, if not in reality, then in their minds at least somehow "antiseptic". How many young jumpers do you hear around the DZ today saying things to their whuffo friends who they've brought out, things like: "what I'm about to do is SAFER than our drive home afterwards is gonna be" (etc.)? BULLSHIT! Our sport is an "extreme" one, with very dire consequences looming for those that don't respect it & fuck up -PERIOD. Too many people lately it seems have indeed lost a REAL grasp on that, and way too often the glossing-over attitudes of "it always happens to the other guy, it will never happen to me" shove it down, supress it, rather than FACE IT & DEAL WITH IT seems to prevail. A real, tangible respect for what they are doing? Actually, that's precisely my point J.E. No sir, I see plenty of jumpers out here today who in fact do NOT have that at all. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Speaking of "whoring" ...(and here I go replying to my own post).... When the heck did I suddenly transition to an "old hand" in here?? Shit, I gotta put this keyboard down for a while I guess! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I can tell you a story about a guy who did 38 (or something very seriously like that) static lines before he finally somehow "got it". He stuck it out, has well over 1,000 jumps now, and is a well respected SKYDIVER still now, around these parts. Stick with it & don't quit. I hope you find whatever it is with you, that helps make everything else just fall into place! Best of wishes and BLUE SKIES, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Neither of which were even a gleem in the eye of their pappy the wonderhog at the time of this picture's taking, there whippersnapper!! If you're a plannin' to post-whore there Darren, why don't you instead take it to "meets 'n greets" or somethin? --DOH! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Most definitely get NON-BIFOCALS for use while jumping! The bottom (reading) portion can indeed interfere with your perception of the ground, which if you are are approaching your landing flare altitude with the proper head orientation (looking forward towards the horizon and NOT directly towards just the ground underneath you), SHOULD BE IN YOUR LOWER PERIFERAL VISION. This vision range will be USELESS (or worse) with bifocals on during this time. It absolutely can be a component of your current landing woes! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Do you think, J.E. ...That on the other hand, that instead of an airbag sitting there on their steering wheels though, that let's say several razor-sharp tines were protruding, just waiting to skewer/impale them instead, that some of these errant and otherwise distracted drivers might actually instead, drive just a little more attentively & CAREFULLY maybe even?? Sometimes a more imminent and imposing, downright intimate knowledge of the absolute dire consequences of one's actions, unprotected, can be a better control and potential deterrent than that certainly of better "insurance" and "protection". Just some devils advocate food for thought. Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

How long were you at the "new" dz before you went up for the jump? ...Doesn't the Cypres re-calibrate itself (unless manually over-ridden for LZ MSL differences from the take-off point) every few minutes? ---As long as it said "0" on the ground, at the CURRENT take-off point on inspection (assumed with your pre-boarding gear-check), why would you have a concern? Glad to see that you are able to make a jump "without" one though! Neither do I, necessarily. Especially when taken into consideration OVER debating and potentially examining (what is getting ignored by most otherwise) the root cause to the incident (a tail-strike on an EMERGENCY BAIL OUT -or what SHOULD HAVE BEEN handled as such) that initiated all this anyway! On this, for the most part we agree. It's the radical "militants" on either side of the debate, that say you either HAVE TO have one, or you SHOULDN'T; on something that has always been taught to me, that except for student status, is a personal comfort, and yes safety CONSIDERATION ..."CHOICE". coitus non circum - Moab Stone

By all means, ...HAVE ONE! It's your CHOICE (it's mine too, BTW). But just don't forget, or neglect to EXAMINE (when an incident does occur) the other RELEVANT safety considerations (or issues) otherwise JUST BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE ONE!! ...They are ONLY a device, and devices CAN fail. Practice good judgement, obtained either through experience, or good training plus consideration and PRACTICE ...and also exhaust ALL your options (either before, or to prevent) accidents in the first place and/or even going in! One (having a Cypres) is definitely not an acceptable substitute for the other, is all I am saying. Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I really do hate it when my bootie blows out on the step too! ...It's usually right before that hot 4-way I was gonna turn 18+ points on, that turned into only 8 or 9 as a result too gall-darn it!! Now if only my Cypres was on.... DOH! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Thanks Wendy. You don't think you've influenced Freaky's answer now any though, do you? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

So, riddle me this one ...just for "yucks". You're on jumprun, getting a final pin-check before exit. The person checking your pin(s) also has access to your Cypres window & notices it is OFF. "...Oops, your Cypres is not turned on!" Are you staying with the plane? ---Or are you still making the jump? Doing &/or thinking anything DIFFERENT now if you do "go" as a result? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

That's not "judging" anyone Steve. That's merely examining the ROOT CAUSE of the incident at hand!! If you can not objectively examine the root cause and attempt to come to an understanding of what caused the incident itself ----(which had NOTHING TO DO with whether she had the Cypres or not), you will have no basis for potentially LEARNING SOMETHING FROM IT either. So, we are to ignore what happened and what can potentially be leraned from it JUST BECAUSE the Cypres saved her too? See where I am going with this? I don't think that examining the events themselves which lead to this Cypres fire necessarily need to be looked at as "BASHING" at all? Why do you? It is OTHERS who turned this into a Cypres debate ...On that we (apparently) agree. If she didn't hit the tail in the 1st place we probably wouldn't even be talking about her Cypres here at all, right? I think it is all the Cypres debate that is in reality instead what is demeaning to this jumper, because you are then doing her (and others) NO GOOD, by saying merely ..."Oh good ---you were saved by your Cypres -now go forth & jump in bliss some more." Without learning something! ---What if next time her Cypres FAILS??? ---Avoid (or learn to reduce the chances of) the INCIDENT (the tail strike) first, or doom yourself to potentially just repeat it. Maybe next time without the same FORTUNATE outcome!! Then, who Steve, by saying NOTHING does THAT (respectfully) serve?? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

This statement, if you had stuck with just THIS, is precisely the attitude that worries me (greatly) about SOME new jumpers I'm seeing today. If you even remotely agree with the above, as it is, then you need to reconsider skydiving in TOTAL, IMHO!! Think about it. Why would you NOT do these things ANYWAY? ...And yes, I've actually heard jumpers saying quite the similar! But thank goodness Derrick you went on to say (or I'd have to be otherwise jumping all over you here! ): I don't think it does either Derrick. So THANK YOU, for posting YOUR post as well, from your perspective too. You've restored my faith, just one little bit here maybe. Blue Skies! -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Maybe ...if again on that opposite side of the spectrum that is the only reason you are jumping (linda like the ol' fashioned "look ma, no hands trick" I'm sure we all know from when we were kids). However, let's say you arive at the DZ, go to power up your Cypres, it errors-out repeatedly & shuts down. Are you grounding yourself? Or on jumprun someone realizes you didn't turn your Cypres on. You staying in the plane? Choosing to go ahead & make your jumps under those scenarios (or not for that matter) is not necessarily "bravado" at all ...just simple personal choice, that's all. Either decision is not "stupid" so long as properly reasoned, and measured against the individual's own PERSONAL tolerance or acceptability of risk & perception and further personal practice of risk management. If you do not feel like you even have that CHOICE (ie: no Cypres, no skydive) YOU ARE DEPENDENT. It is just that plain & simple. Period. My opinion: Cypres' should be a choice. I am free to make mine, you are free to make yours. ---At least until further notice coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Did anyone ever subsequently talk to this skydiver to determine WHY he never initiated any emergency procedures?? ...I for one, would sure like to hear/learn more from this event! ---Please do share, if you know. THANKS! -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Terminal deployments without a bag at all?... Interesting. What sort of canopy folding method would you use (I assume something just a bit different than your standard "PRO pack") so as to assure that the main did not come to a quick & full inflation prior to it having the capability of pulling the lines to some sort of tension/stretch? ...Now THAT (inflated before stretch) otherwise I would think, would certainly HURT! I had heard of somebody doing this with some sort of single rubber band around the folded canopy. As the pc pulled the (held in one single-wrapped band) canopy to line stretch, and as the nose began to catch air, the band either broke or was forced off the canopy & voila! ...Nice smooth deployment. Excess top-skin wear I think, was the death of that method. What canopy folding/securing method did you use? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I stand corrected as to my techical terminology. mia culpa. Thanks swoop! -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Maybe not the opening behavior of the canopy itself, considered in isolation, but considered as an entire sequence and it's affect on your opening shock, it sure can! ...Ever heard of LINE-DUMP before?? I agree, that PC size, aside from the relative speed it may get your d-bag to line stretch, will in reality have NO affect on your canopy's opening speed (or shock in this instance) ...but if your lines are not entirely stowed, or otherwise "dump" before you have come to full line stretch ...when that canpoy leaves the bag, I gauran-f'ing-tee you it's gonna HURT (at the very least)! And Mike.... THAT does indeed happen BEFORE the canopy leaves the bag. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I think we were covering that, albeit only briefly, when we were discussing why she chose to take a "poised" exit in the 1st place (and what her considerations may have been) in an otherwise"emergency" situation. I think it was my observation that she had treated this as nothing more than a simple "hop-n-pop", perhaps without giving the situation a better consideration. That is before this thread got completely single-tracked into only one component of the event ...and that was/is the Cypres! I too would like us to go back and maybe more fully discuss/consider the decision/considerations which caused this event to actually occur in the first place. What could have been done differently to have maybe even potentially AVOIDED this?? Still glad that Caryn (sp?) was using a Cypres, and that it was on, and further that it WORKED (never "rely" on this! -of course. ...let's move on) so that she can be here to now share all of this with us! What say we all that we now take more full advantage of that aspect too now accordingly? ---(to discuss and learn from the TAIL STRIKE on exit, which IMHO is the real incident here!) coitus non circum - Moab Stone