Scrumpot

This is GREAT feedback Tim, and nothing to be embarrassed about at all! This, is indeed just another part of precisely what it is I am looking for here!! You get away from your JM or JM's, you roll over on your back & you see them there now above you, looking down at you. Let's say they are even looking like they are trying to dive down to get to you. ...What are you thinking?? Great input, thank you! How about a few of you who have replied that yes, you feel (or even just "think") that yes, their JM will/would pull for them; ...honestly now, might be thinking in this very position?? Any others of you been there? Thank you again Tim, for providing this insight! Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

And what is it that has made you even think he/she would? Is this something that you were told was a part of your JM's required skillset? Or perhaps (as others have intimated) you just "heard some stories"? At the AFF level, presumably having only 1-2 (or as many as 8-15) jumps only under your belt, obviously by definition makes one a complete and total neophyte. So what I am trying to determine (again in part) is, where would you have come up with that impression? "Counting on it" or not. Thank you for your reply, and input! Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Very observant, grasshopper. Hopefully all will be made clear in good time. In the meantime, thank you for your participation! -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Thanks Laurie, for your perspective. Follow-up question (other than noting: Sheesh, you sure have been an AFF Student for one heck of a long time now! )... At any time during your AFF training though, were you told that if you got into "trouble", that your AFF JM's were there to pull for you? Or did you even think/consider otherwise somehow or get the impression in any way that your JM's would pull for you? This is the recent phenomenon (mindset) that I am trying, in part, with this poll to get to the root of. I'm now "back" after having been away from these boards now for a couple of days. Reading through all these now one at a time, as I go. Lot's of PM's were awaiting me, plus, as it appears, a reasonable amount of participation. So, THANK YOU everybody! I'll post up some of my comments/follow-up (depending whether it may be redundant already in here or not) as, and if it is looks needed. But again, THANK YOU EVERYBODY, for your participation!! Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

No, the question should not have been.... (yada, yada, yada). I know what the question was "supposed to have been" and it is as posted because I POSTED IT! But thanks for participating.

Anybody remember "Big Pat"? ...Now there was a guy who weighed in at gotta be @ 300lb, yet he could jump with ANYBODY ...Even the lightest weight of girlie-girls, when I would instead be struggling to get back up to them! Bless his soul, he is no longer with us (BSBD Pat), but there's gotta be technique to keeping "up" with the slower fallers when you are that big of a guy. ...I've seen it. Figure it out. It CAN be done! Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Yes, this has happened to me on my sport rig in the past. Reflex flying an Icarus Safire, and dual kill-line collapsable slider. However, once I changed out my hard-links to SLinks, and instead now collapse my slider behind my head (instead of leaving above the links) this has not happened since. Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Interesting that this is precisely how I do my 4-ways out of the Otter. "Stretching" the chunk out of the King Air by "pulling it off" with the tail dropping straight down (by my practice ...not just what I've always been told) has instead resulted in the point having a propensity to flip under, due to his back being presented into the wind (prop-blast) by having to "follow". Maybe this entire thread needs to be moved into the R/W section where others might be able to chime in here more specifically on further tips and techniques accordingly. I may have to try/practice more "your way" to see if this can more consistently work. You're right, "my way" indeed took a bit of practice, but I can pretty much guarantee you I can in fact "NAIL IT" every time now as a result, with even various groups, when I am flying point and jumping 4-way this way out of the K/A. Tell me what the point specifically does on your exit then, and I will be most happy to try it too! ...Hopefully all this is at least giving 'kneedragon' some fodder to consider here that he was looking for. If need be, we can take our debate to PM, if we get too individually style-focus convoluted here blaze. I do appreciate hearing your perspective/opinion/offering on this too though. ---THANKS! Blues, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Pre-Cypres jumpers used to "go low" I suppose by this definition relatively ALL THE TIME, J.E. 1,500' AGL would have (and has) been considered a normal/fully acceptable deployment altitude. ...pre-Cypres. Again, I don't think that we are on entirely different pages here. If you read FULLY what I wrote, I said "ONE" could potentially take the opposite position (based on anothers argument FOR the Cypres), not even necessarily that I was. Going "low" was not entirely what almost "cost him his life" however. Pulling at any altitude that affords a full canopy for a safe landing prior to impact is what will save (or not doing, COST) a jumpers life. The Cypres merely influences (and yes it is my assertion that in some cases it can even complicate) those considerations. Losing altitude AWARENESS, and full awareness for his situation is what almost cost him his life. Again, I was merely paraphrasing and playing off anothers (devils advocate) post here. Clarifications understood though and definately noted. -THANK YOU!

I think that's actually precisely what I said in my initial post there, J.E.... Later on, yes indeed I did take some issue with another poster's trying to make this a "BANNER CASE EXAMPLE" in of itself, for Cypres advocacy! I think that Donavan was perhaps answering someone elses post (darn all that cross-reading that has to take place sometimes) when and after he had already hit "Reply" to mine. He cut out and pasted the OTHER posters line quoted within my response when replying to me! Check it out in chronological order. You & I are actually on exactly the same page here! Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I have always started front float 1st, in the way I described (personally) doing this. Maybe not even quite a half-beat. Something more along the lines of a seven-eights for those more musically inclined. So I wouldn't quite call it "peeling" him off. Just further "FYI". As in almost any A/C 4-way exit, the group actually leaving effectively as a unit is usually best. The way to get that to occur is called "technique". Doing it right is called "style". (or is that the other way around?) I can oft times have plenty of the 1st with still nearly NONE as a result, of the latter! FWIW. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

This is precisely the stuff I am looking for! Thank you for your candor! Please, keep it coming. Maybe Brian, if you wouldn't mind you can even expand upon this a little. ...How long would you "wait" for an instructor to get to you, if you felt (as you indicate) he was "coming to get you"? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Not a good analogy. Skydiving is not like russian roulette, where you have FIXED CHANCES (1-in-6 as you say, ...for a six-shooter that is! ) of occurance, each and every time you participate; and you are right, experience in participation does NOT affect your per-participation statistics. However, again skydiving is NOT Russian Roulette!! Experience, training, relative exposure and currency, even including intangible considerations like personal mindset, can indeed all have an affect statistically on the outcome of each and every jump you make. Comparing skydiving to russian roulette, I find personally, offensive and not condusive at all to you making the point I think it is you are trying to make. Either try another analogy, or try another sport. The only way to be absolutely 100% assured that you will not either die or be injured in participating, is to NOT PARTICIPATE! If that is what you are trying to say tieing and comparing skydiving to russian roulette as your true perception here, you need to then hang up (not pick up as you say) not only that six-shooter, but the rig as well. You are conceding yourself up to your own eventual (statistical) doom by this argument otherwise, are you not? Why bother reading anything (fatality/incident reports etc.) at all then? They really don't matter (based upon this argument). Skydiving is not "safe". Crossing the street is not "safe". But steps can be taken to manage the risks, and the risks can indeed be mitigated, so long as they are at least first RECOGNIZED, accepted (granted), and then MANAGED. Not to do so would be irresponsible. I think that is what Ron is trying to say to you here. Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

A line in another thread has caught my curiosity as to some potential current perceptions out there. Please answer honestly if you would. For the poll portion, please, only current (or very recently off of) AFF STUDENT status only, ...PLEASE. Commentary and materially posted input/feedback further from AFF instructors and/or other experienced skydivers is certainly welcome (and indeed solicited!). However, "experienced" input in the poll section may skew desired data. POLL QUESTION: "As an AFF Student, I feel comfortable/reasonably assured that if I get into trouble, my AFF JM will pull for me if necessary." coitus non circum - Moab Stone

When I have flown point out of the King Air, what I have done is bend a lot deeper at the right knee than what I normally do out of the Twin Otter. Instead of looking OVER my right shoulder for exit count (as in most point exits from the T/O) I will be looking UNDER/in from my and the centers armpit. "GO" feels maybe a split second shade earlier and more assertive/aggressive "UP" and out than the T/O too. I am fairly tall (6'1"), so maybe this is just more a function of that, relative to door size, but this is what has worked successfully for me. Also, by bending knee (back stays relatively straight) deeper, it brings you closer to the A/C in the door (similar to Aggie Dave's suggestion), but without being "plastered" body-length long to the fusealage, which I have found instead can weaken your launch/subject your presentation to more hap-hazard net results. Try both & see which works best for you. There was a training tape put out by the knights that addressed individual slot K/A launches too (actually covered several different A/C). Can't remember the name of that or where I put my hands on it, but that can be an invaluable resource if you can find it. Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Okay then, he would have been under his main then at a little under 1k in this scenario instead, thanks for the 'correction' there. But again, please tell me how this illustrates at all then, how his Cypres almost saved him?? Actually though, you don't have to answer that, because you've now "got it" with what you posted here: Which is all I was really looking for. Note that in your earlier response you had completely omitted (your now inserted) letter "b)". Again, I just don't think this particular specific incident was the most appropriate one to whip out as the "poster child" for advocating AAD's. You & I don't disagree. Sorry though that you thought it was otherwise "ragging". Okay, then, in review, maybe it was. ...Just a little Good debate resultant though & points I think very well taken & now gotten accross. Thank you for participating! Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Ahhh, the instant gratification required generation at it's zenith! First things first though... You got all your hot color matching gear yet, and all the fanciest & latest of gizmo's & thing-a-ma-bob's etc. that will not only tell you when to pull, but potentially even pull for you too? Y'know, making cell phone calls while in freefall to the vid shack to be sure your "live" ground-to-air video is all queu'ed up & ready to go the MOMENT you touch down could get distracting. We wouldn't want you to pound in because you happened to miss your fancy-toy's flat-line in all the great excitement! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Puh-leeze, wrong situation/illustration to whip this statement out upon altogether! I don't think that THIS is what is to be learned from this incident at all, and in fact I would submit that one can take precisely the OPPOSITE position on this. Instead, it was a cypres fire here that could have rather COST him his life! Not that the Cypres is "at fault" in EITHER WAY at all in this incident. It is clearly, as the jumper notes himself: his loss off altitude awareness, and his failure to deploy otherwise at the appropriate (Cypres CONSIDERED) altitude. Actually, in this actual (rather than hypothetical ---who ever said he was screaming completely into the ground? ) incident, had this jumper not had a Cypres; instead he would have simply just been open, and under his main at ~1500'! More reasonable possible alternative scenario... because he knows he has a Cypres, and finds himself again in this situation, he dumps directly his reserve. ...(??) One "issue" definitely agreed here though. It is something that should be more completely thought out, and understood when making your Cypres purchase/usage (or NOT) considerations. Using this particular situation though, as the "poster child" for absolute Cypres usage is definitely off base. My .02, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

In January 1998 I fractured (compression fractures of 15-20% a piece) ALL 5 (L1-L5) of my lower lumbar vertebrae. 3 left transverse-process bones were left "floating" as a result as well, although I have been told that is "inconsequential". ...Funny though how it is the "inconsequential" that is the ONLY thing that now from time-to-time gets to me Since 1998 I have still averaged more than 150 jumps per year, with relatively no real concerns or any problems. Nope, you're certainly not the only one out there jumping with healed (again relatively speaking) back injuries! Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Great job, and great story! ...Keep 'em coming!! It's refreshing to read recountings so well written from that point of view. And just remember.... keep on

True. As do we now also offer several options on canopy control classes, both for the beginner as well as the advanced. ...Just some interesting paralells going on there, and observations noted (again), that's all. Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

If the lines are not controlled carefully, by maintaining appropriate tension on them during the "roll" phase, upon opening shock as they are pulled taught before the canopy has yet fully "unrolled" can cause line-burns (and fairly severe ones dependent upon the amount of "slack" allowed inside the roll) to the canopy. Of course this can happen with either pro or flat packing as well, although it is less likely due to the nature of the way tension is held in the lines during "normal" S-folding. If you are using appropriate "normal" care though, this should not be an issue. Due to the damage caused by lax pack-jobs done in this fashion, particularly while psycho packing as witnessed by some, as a result has compelled them into reporting that it is the nature of the pack-job itself to cause the damage, which IMHO is NOT the case. Just my own personal observations/.02 though ...FWIW. Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

An anvil jumping with "screech"! Please, do me a favor, ...on your guys next series of jumps get some vid. Now that's some video I'd like to see! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Any one else observe the same "interesting" parallels as potentially alluded to here? Hmmmm..... From "AvWeb", a bi-weekly Pilots and avation enthusiasts e-newsletter: Bush Pilot Wannabes Push Crash Stats? Idaho officials are wondering what to do about an alarming increase in air crashes, especially fatal ones. In 2003, there have been 50 crashes, eleven of them fatal, and 21 people have died. Compared to the averages over the previous 11 years, that works out to 38 percent more accidents, 57 percent more fatal crashes and 61 percent more fatalities. Government agencies like the NTSB and FAA could offer no explanation for the sharp increase (nor did they seem particularly concerned about it) but a veteran Idaho pilot thinks adventuresome pilots, long on finances but lean on experience, are pushing the numbers up. Gene Mussler said the state's picturesque back-country landing strips are a magnet to moneyed private pilots who lack the experience to fly in the tricky conditions in the mountains. "They're getting out into the mountains and the airstrips that are tricky and dangerous -- and they crash," said Mussler. Bob Martin, of the state's aeronautic division, couldn't agree more. "It's pilot error. We did an analysis," he said. "Guys fly up canyons and find out that they can't fly out, they end up on the side of a hill." Martin said the FAA should free up more money for training and safety programs. ----- Blue Skies all, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

He won't answer you. He never does when it comes right down to backing up something that he apparently has the habit of otherwise just glibly spewing out there, with any sort of meaningful, factual and/or first hand actual knowledge. I wouldn't be holding my breath Andy, if I were you. coitus non circum - Moab Stone