Scrumpot

No worries - I've now asked directly in the incidents forum as well. That is what is being SPECULATED - but no, unfortunately as of right now even still - noting definitive. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

What bottom line? I still haven't seen post-1 yet, salient at all to WHAT EVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED HERE. - Have you? Of course all the "channel noise" about being 17, or 35 - or whatever age, at this point has no doubt drown it all out. Did she release 1 toggle herself, and not the other one? Have a "toggle fire", and not respond to it? Some sort of other equipment issue? Or maybe it was no equipment issue at all of any sort, and it was all some sort of "pilot error" (or 'freaking-out" maybe, if you want to believe it is all totally just attributable to her being just a babbling hapless 17yr old as the root cause)? If I've missed it somewhere in these total of 100+ some-odd posts, my apologies. Otherwise, I've not seen any info come out yet at all, as to what - has actually happened here. Let alone a "bottom line". Anyone have any REAL info or details forthcoming out of this incident? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

How do you go from a badly spinning, AFF Level-5... from there - directly to coaching jumps? what is it I either don't understand or am (apparently) missing here? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

By-the-way... I've still not seen ANYTHING at all anywhere - coming out from within the mainstream media here on this story. I'm hard pressed to even really find very much either - even when I go out to actively search, and actually look for it either. OTOH - that 2-out of a 35-year-old into trees story, coming out of Pepperell, was just AGAIN shown on my local television newscast broadcast here in Baltimore. Just FWIW. EDIT TO ADD: Maybe DB, you just haven't "alerted that mainstream media" quite vociferously enough yet, to get it to effectively catch on? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Uh-oh. ...There goes this perfectly good () thread now, probably right down the proverbial toilet. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

LOL - Krisanne!! - You beat me to it!!! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Here is what we do at one of the dropzones/skydiving schools I instruct at, that I think works particularly well: - Each instructor carries an FRS radio with him (her) - uniquely frequency-matched to the student we are taking. We have a certain set #, or "blocks" if you will, of standard fixed frequencies (and matching radio-sets, all set in advance) pre-established, to choose from. - Radios are selected, and matched (and tested/verified) between the students & their instructors as a part of their gearing-up pre-boarding routine. - Main-side instructor (for 2-instructor level jumps) is usually designated as primary radio operator for the student. - Student is advised that they will not hear ANY radio commands, immediately upon their opening (the JM's/instructors have to 1st get down themselves) - So IT IS THEIR JOB / FULL EXPECTATION once they have deployed - to do their canopy control checks, as they have been trained, then locate the airport/LZ, and fly to their pre-flight-planned, designated holding "playground" area. - When instructors land, we expect to find our student either in, or around that holding area. (doesn't always work that way - obviously, but that still does not affect really, this protocol for purposes we are discussing here in any way at all). - We can then identify our student via their known canopy color, further confirmed with an affirmative command response solicited. For instance: "Okay Joe... Radio check just to be sure you can hear me okay - - let's give me a good solid right turn" (or left turn, whichever might be most appropriate) ...and have them hold that turn as long as needed for you to feel comfortable they are following your instruction. This can also be followed by a sequence of commands if needed, etc. Voila! ...Each individual student identified - and direct, individual radio communications established! Each of them, on their own UNIQUE frequency, and each of them also matched-up to their own AFF instructor(s) too! I've found this "system" - at least for purposes of establishing the effective radio communication protocol - works very well. Just to give one particular example of radio communications protocol used at one center I happen to have experience with, that I feel effectively works very well. Using this "system" also eliminates all that multiple students all on the same frequency potential confusion, &/or needing to be "juggled" between them, attempting to be "managed" by only one, single (and single-frequency) ground-radio operator. Again - in my experience... ...Is a "system" that seems to be effective, and in practice, actually really works, very VERY well. FWIW. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Really? Where / when? Seems to me that there is a lot more going on there, and to be actually ACTIVELY concerned with - than whether or not instructors intend to shout their cutaway commands into a (not-to-be-relied-upon-in-the-1st-place) radio. For sure. Remember, I did "hedge" too, just a bit. I suppose if I saw one of my students under a 2-out canopy scenario, and they were clearly screaming at the ground as a "clean" downplane under it - and... I was 100% SURE, no doubts AT ALL it was my student - AND... I had direct (independent channel) exclusive radio communications to them - I might (okay, well probably would) scream "cutaway" into the radio at them, under THAT particular extreme circumstance. But I still would not have advance told ANY of my students, EVER - that I was going to do this, or even indicate in any way, any differently than what I've already posted. Fair enough? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

BTW too - I've heard a lot LESS (in fact, other than DZ.com, I've actually heard independently on this one, absolutely NOTHING) on this incident, out of/from the mainstream media - - than what I've heard, read and now seen (on even my local 6o'clock news here in Baltimore AND CNN!) - on the guy with the 2-out landing in trees incident that happened just yesterday up in Pepperell. And that guy is (reported to be) "in his 30's". I'm just sayin'... FWIW. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

At the risk of tainting my own poll results with my reply - I personally take great care to instruct my students, on the ground - either during the FJC, or during my gearing them up/ground-prep with them if I was not the instructor in the FJC - that they should never count on, nor expect explicit 'command' instructions over the radio - Let alone that the radio will even work or be relied upon for anything. I remind them (and yes even refresh them, if needed) that they have (or should have been already) fully trained on their canopy opening assessment and check/control procedures, establishing (and then I review it with them again - make THEM SHOW ME): Their intended flight-pattern/plan, and EP's /confirming decision altitudes. I make it clear that they are pilots in command of their own parachutes once they have opened, and that if they have any misgivings, or doubts about their abilities to handle that in that regard before they go up - that they should NOT. In short, I make it abundantly clear that cut-away/EP/non-cutaway decisions under canopy are SOLELY theirs. I want NO DOUBT that when (if) any of my students ever find themselves in a "situation" or decision-making scenario is upon them - that their minds could even remotely possibly be clouded or hesitant/reliant upon "I should wait till I hear my instructor command me". What if I am/would be wrong even too? As I cannot (clearly) see whatever is causing their problem (spiralling, in your example) absolutely, and definitively from the ground anyway. I AM NOT THERE. What if cutting away in the situation THEY ARE DEALING WITH (presumably) or have at-hand, would actually WORSEN their situation? Therefore, it HAS TO BE their decision. And fully understood (and accepted) up front. Before they even go up. I can see no other way. Telling students "we will tell you what to do" sets a stage and an in my mind, a very BAD premise/scenario for lack of judgment while under canopy. No, I will NOT yell an instruction to a student via ground radio, under nearly any circumstance that I can at least think of as of this very moment (never say ABSOLUTE NEVER, I suppose - right? ) to "CUTAWAY"! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I had thought that the whole reason this incident happened, or its root cause - at least according to you (see your post in the related incidents thread HERE) was because the instructor on the ground radio was negligent?

In a recent incident thread, it is being suggested that an AFF Instructor is "incorrectly trained", if he/she is not capable of, or able to give CUT-AWAY COMMANDS to students in the air, via ground radio. Instructors only please - do you agree with this? Or not? Feel free to post narrative to further explain or elaborate on your position on this as well. I am very interested and curious as to seasoned instructors perspectives, as I am a relatively new (2 seasons) AFF Instructor myself - so this position/perspective has now indeed piqued my interest. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Within the article, it states that "According to Newsom, a skydiving accident that injured a 17-year-old girl Sunday is being investigated by the company and the Federal Aviation Administration." *(emphasis added by me) Does anybody know if this statement, or quote, is accurate? Is THE FAA really, and indeed - directly now, actively investigating this incident? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

When is her 18th birthday due? ...Next week? ...Next month? ...More nearly a full year away? And then regardless - please explain how with any answer you may give, this mitigates her chance of injury one way or the other really, in any way at all. Or maybe I just misunderstand totally, your statement and the point you are trying to make with it here, entirely? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I personally buy into more, #5. Just FWIW... coitus non circum - Moab Stone

On another note entirely, related to this incident... Does anyone have any update as to this girl's condition, how she is doing, and/or what her prognosis for a full and complete recovery from her injuries may be? Sending my VERY BEST WISHES and THOUGHTS to the injured, as well as all those affected and concerned now too, by her mishap. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

No you weren't. you were VERY specific: Now you don't wan't to explain? - Typical. That is not what I said. You are now twisting my words. You are trying to deflect the entire point of this conversation. That is not what I said at all. What I said in my post to you was: The exuberance I am referring to was evident (and still is) in your for whatever reason - feeling the need to post ...although clearly, by your own admittance now, you obviously know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about! Yet you come on here, to an open and PUBLIC forum and you make a VERY DEFINITIVE statement - which the above most clearly, certainly and inarguably is. A statement you are incapable of, and have absolutely nothing ...no manner of substance, background or experience apparently at all, to back up. I am calling you out to back it up. Either you can, or you cannot. Apparently - You cannot. So rather now, you instead decide to (only now) upon reply to someone "calling you out", state: There you go. Get it? Maybe you should take your own words and "advice" that exists in only that very last statement you have finally made there, and THINK a little bit 1st, the next time before you post. ...Or, give "expert advice" to newbies around the dropzone as well for instance, -or whuffo's that are asking questions about jumping/jump operations, etc. - THAT is the exuberance to which I am referring to. Some of us "old timers" over the years have seen plenty of exuberant neophytes, whose exuberance can get the best of them. THIS is what I said, and am now trying to HELP you out with (I truly am... whether you can see that for yourself right now at this very moment or not). I have a feeling you are "one of those". Think about what both the implications, and the ramifications of your "expert" statements may be, BEFORE you make them! Again, your quote - top, center and MOST PROMINENT, from your original post: I asked you what makes you qualified to come on here, out into an open and public forum - and spout out such statement? Apparently, nothing. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

By the way - even after over 10 years here, and 15 active in this sport, just "for what it's worth"... I still have lower post #'s than actual jumps. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Does my edit now make my point maybe just a bit more clear for you, perhaps? back atcha! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

And you are qualified to state this, as you have - how? You also realize that with this above statement, you are DIAMETRICALLY opposed, and in direct conflict (i.e. calling into question, severely) the meat of your then very next statement, here: Okay then, so - - - which is it? If someone completely untrained, and "unqualified" (as your profile at least indicates you are neither a skydiving instructor, nor specialized/trained psychiatrist maybe, etc.) could apparently recognize this FJC Student's clear and obvious dis-qualifiers from (or should have been disqualified from being allowed to) skydiving - what, do you really think in essence, you are saying about her instruction/instructors then? I realize that you are "new", and maybe you just don't "get" the implications / ramifications of your statements (posts) here. Sheer newby exuberance to post in public places saying (in essence) "ooh, ooh - look at me, and what I KNOW" can (and has) gotten at times, to the best of us. So I will give you a chance to explain. So then - okay, here's your chance... Please do... Elaborate / EXPLAIN! If you've got something more specific, enlightening, or possibly learned to share with us all, well then (again) - please do. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I've used mine for an in-air situation 1 time in 15 years. It was an AFF Instructional jump, where as one of the instructors where this particular jump took place - we carry (FRS) student radios with us, in our jumpsuits during the jump. I had chosen to have mine hang around my neck (again tucked-in under my jumpsuit), attached via a shoestring lanyard. Well, apparently, sometime during the course of this jump (that got just a little "wild" ) the lanyard found a way to work its way out a bit from under my collar, and was "catching" in the relative wind. Upon deployment - the lanyard actually got snagged in one of my 3-rings, and was cutting across my neck! At 1st, I thought I had a line across my neck, or a riser somehow or some sort of other "normal" malfunction. Try as I might, with all the tension on it, (and it slowly choking me out) - I could not manually get it free / clear, so I cut it free with my hook knife. My Lesson learned? Now, rather than carrying my radio via a lanyard around my neck to have it with me - instead, I simply zip it inside my inside jumpsuit pocket where it can do no (similar) harm. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I exited last, out of a trail-otter on a 200-way record dive. Swooped effortlessly into last-whacker glory-slot, officially getting the record set, within only 20 seconds total working time, so the 2nd point could be turned by 35, also making it and sanctioning it as a sequential record as well. Then, after holding the record for another 15 seconds, was a part of the 1st break-off / tracking wave, that tracked horizontally for @1.5mi - so that I could deploy my Xaos74 to descend to the national canopy speed/distance swooping meet taking place at the neighboring dropzone - where I also took 1st place for both speed and distance during the pond swooping event being concurrently held there. I have mad skillz! There. I just wanted to (finally, after all this time) just get all that off my chest. LOL. Actually, IIRC - I think I pretty much just "hung out". All by myself, for @ 60 sec of completely peaceful, solo freefall, dong pretty much "nothing" at all. - Might have turned a few slow, easy "360's" and I just thoroughly enjoyed the ride! Enjoy yours! Don't ever let the wonderment of it all slip away from you. Your "journey" (no matter what disciplines & activities path you choose) has now truly just begun. - WELCOME! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

So, Jan - "Exhibit 454", which is referenced via clicking-through to your link: "full and complete testimony of Jan Meyer" upon your website: funjumper.com/skyride ... ...Is that full exhibit itself also now, publicly available somewhere? And if so, can you please possibly provide either a resource, or a direct-link for us, to obtain / view that particular document now as well? coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Looking for opinions on this from those who may have it in theirs. Effective? Cooler in summer, warmer in winter? Add any "bulk"? Advantages? Disadvantages? Any & all info and experiences, feedback with this appreciated. TIA & BLUE SKIES! -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Is that where it would be anchored when set in the rig? Looks to me like you were pretty quick - and may have actually gotten it moving at least too, before that little (what - maybe 8" or so - "little" in some peoples books ) lanyard ended up getting it for ya too. What kind of gear and set-up for this jump? You say the chop was from a heatwave, but I note your profile indicates some other type canopy is your usual main. So, just wondering about updated details more pertinent to this jump? Good job assessing, and reacting to (then taking action appropriate to) your situation! coitus non circum - Moab Stone