Zenister

i guess you havent heard the reports of rigs being CUT OPEN by ignorant TSA personnel when checked as baggage?? how does being "patient, polite, and willing to work with the agents" help when you never see the people who damaged the equipment you trust your life too? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i've had pretty good experiences with the TSA so far thru SEATAC, ONT & PHX no one really even blinked...almost sounds like you should pay them for entertainment costs

which, if true, and i do not doubt because i dont know means barnstorming and the mindset that sees its value is completely dead. to me that is a sad thing. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

well the strawberrry fest was near epic...with some really interesting jumps into as well..quote well lit at the moment and off to bed to dream of pulling drawstrings and blue skies... Jeffro is raising hell in the PNW as well this weej so look out freaks cause it is alll on.........if you dont know youd better ask somebody.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

well yes...will do..but are the planes flying there yet??? please tell me all the blue holes that were over here this afternoon are now over there....30 min and counting... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

kinda gives new meaning for the term "sticking the spot" ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

to bad..it makes some really interesting claims... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

no it means that his boss is an idiot and a dumbass because he didnt implement basic training procedures and ensure that all his employees know to ask questions and request assistance BEFORE their actions possibly damage someone else’s property, particularly in the cases where said property is a life saving device.. its not as if the USPA & various container manufactures are hiding the info about how things work and how the look under xray..there isnt ANY good reason why they should have to open a container..it can be x-rayed (and compared to standard drawings of AADs) and swabbed for explosives all without ever pulling any handles or cutting anything at all.. what it requires is the TSA supervisors to do their job and ensure that the lower paid goons understand their responsibilities and dont take the "easy" way out... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i can see a few blue holes over here on Lewis..with any luck i'll be at the DZ in about an hour...with a little more luck all the blue holes will converge over there too... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

ALRIGHT finally a ruler i can really get behind.. my boss is going to love my resignation letter.. "Sorry got this job offer on Venus see...and the view and the benefits just cant be matched" ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Yes, it's true. As the Empress of the Universe, I felt as if Sebazz could implement my vision of this planet, so I appointed him ruler of the world. Please send your congratulations to Sebazz. Please remember that there are other job opportunities available - Ruler of Pluto and Janitor of Jupiter. I am accepting applications. i'll take a cushy spot on Venus near a DZ with internet access please!

Your condescending tone is not appreciated and not helping this debate. understood but when i see the same argument misapplied again and again and with some nice condescention shots as well "its your body right?" i tend to argue in kind.. do you know if this is because to the proxmity to the ground (ie could you practice such manuevers over your own large private property?) or because to the large crowd of potential "victims" if you make a mistake. much the same as our current Demo regs? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

isnt he in it too? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

not even close....your spotting skills are worse than Skreamers.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

nice site.. i dont know HH i would expect a partial refund at least...you paid for something not delivered.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

are you sure you dont need someone strapped to your back to arch for you??? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

people should not touch live saving devices they dont understand..if thay have a question about anyones baggage they should GO GET THE PASSENGER.. frickin idiots.. its not that hard to screen the baggage BEFORE it leaves the check in area... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

My point? Many of us have seen far too many landing accidents. They aren't pretty whether they result in death or "only" injuries. Seems like many of those who haven't seen a few people fuck themselves up are more likely to protest the idea of mandatory training to fly more aggressive canopy types and wingloadings. if you live at the race track your likely to have seen a few more car wrecks. Witnessing an accident (in any environment) is a lesson that death and pain are a part of life and that education and training can help prevent it from happening to you..if you cant get that lesson from your life experience, then to bad, but that is a poor excuse to regulate those who can... everyone focuses on the failures..how many successes are there? how many people are currently or were before successfully jumping canopies "ahead of the curve" without incidents? even of those who had incidents while ahead of the proposed restrictions how many can be attributed to simple mistakes (that can and will happen to anyone) and how many are attributable to "insufficient experience under that wing"? where are the real, solid numbers that can be used to support the position that more people under 500 jumps are dying at high WL than are flying them successfully? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Don't most states have a seperate permit for motorcycles? Why? Because people were getting killed on them. And the tandem argument is very good....Why don't you guys bitch about the 500 jump and 3 years for them? Or the 6 hrs of freefall for AFF? Or the 500 jumps to get a PRO? Or the D to do larger demo's Or Pull altitudes? After all its your body right? uh duh..no thanks for building the straw pile larger.. all of those involve passengers, students and/or specators, other peoples lives you are assuming responsibility for..just like the bus motorcycles have a license because it a different skill set than an automobile but once you get your license for that vehicle you can ride ANY SIZE you wish... can we put the strawman on the fire now?? hes done.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

And what part of YOU CAN TEST OUT IF YOU CAN PROVE YOU HAVE THE SKILL TO HANDLE IT don't you get? all of it.. define test. demostrate ability to the ST&A? how? specific skills? (flat turns uphill, downhill, crosswind etc) PRO test? gates? swoop pond? "I've seen you fly your ok"? will this test be seperate from any licenses? or incorprated into the skills checks? who can sign you off as passed? again. I am all for guidlines..but let the people on the ground make the decisions about who is qualified and who is dangerous, just as the have been (should be) doing all along.. people will still die when they make mistakes.. Because you can't learn to fly a canopy by watching a video, or reading a book. no you can only learn to fly a canopy by flying it, but you can learn quite alot about the principles of canopy flight from such sources, just as you do from talking to coaches, visualization and mental preparation are an important component of any kind of training...isnt part of the point to make people (who apparently dont get it already) understand that you can die if you make a mistake?? and encourage them to get further education? it certainly wont solve the whole issue, but it would put the information out there for them to decide to ignore or not... caps lock stuck?? rather than yelling turn up the hearing aid instead ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

You calling me skinny? Wait a cottin pickin minute. You jump in the same air I do. What you jump IS important to me since you could collide with me if it is beyond your ability to control yourself. It absolute IS my business. so is what i drive..but i can go get that huge SUV, my dodge or a Ferrari and drive right next to you in the interstate without the additional licenses you need to be driving the school kids...its not a commercial enterprise. apples and oranges.. again recent unfortunate incidents aside, do the math and figure out what the % chance is of you being injured by another jumper on landing for any single jump... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

well since its another thread i'll switch tacks.. I'm all for a BSR that encourages canopy control classes. One that offers guidelines for ST&A's & DZOs to use in determining if the jumpers under their supervision are flying within acceptable risk levels..however the final determination of who can and should fly what canopy should be made on the ground, by the people who are enabling you to get in the air in the first place, not by an overreaching authority that never sees any individual jumper. if the jumpers on your DZ are so unsafe why arent they being talked to and/or grounded? unless the incident is the result of an obvious mistake and mistakes happen to everyone shouldnt it be pretty obvious who is landing safely and who is a potential meat bomb? there must be a pattern of behavior that is being ignored for this "trend" to have started in the first place... all i see so far is alot of relatively arbitrary jump numbers & WL restrictions, where are the "test out" portions of this proposal?? What skills should a jumper be able to demonstrate before being signed off into the holy mantel of "skydiving adult" (otherwise bestowed at 500 jumps) per this BSR? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

and of course thats another issue. shouldnt we be wary of passing a rule that you dont want applied to EVERYONE? why is someone with 400 jumps @ 1.8 OK now but after the proposed BSR the next guy to get 400 jumps isnt?? what if the rule were written so that it applied to EVERYONE? ie Mr. 12,000 jumps has to pass the same skills test that mr 300 does to fly the same wingloading?? would everyone still be for it??..even though it meant that they might take away the "toys" you feel its your right to fly by virtue of jump numbers alone?? what if the rule says ANY significant change of wing type requires testing??? after all your 800 jumps on that lightly loaded spectre might not have taught you much about flying the VX88 you just bought... but when you make a mistake, and lots of people make mistakes 1000s of jumps or no.. and hook it in trying a turn you havent practiced enough under a wing your no where near current on....your in the "its ok incidents" because with 800 jumps your a skydiving adult?? theres another straw man again.. TM's have passengers, airlines have passengers, buses have passengers, all are commercial enterprises and so are and should be regulated differently from a sport particularly in ascpects that really only involve a single participant.. IE what you fly ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

absolutely hands on the winner! ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

that tour was EPIC...only one to compare since was Seventh Son.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.