Zenister

the ARMY?!?! or your local commander? different things..IIRC the local commander has the authority to decide what risks are acceptible for property under his control... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

sugar or vingar? depends on what you are after... i think changing the culture by an emphasis on demonstrable skills and training will go alot farther than "handing down the law from above', but to do it will require lots of input and public expressions from swoop competitors, manufacturers, and instructors..more qualified people need to "hang out shingles" advertising their willingness to take time to teach, most i've met certainly are but the opportunity needs to be more public to get widespread acceptance.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

all of which could also be done thru AFF and you meet most standards for 'skydiver' right away, since you did it all for yourself, with instructional assistance only if you brainlocked... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

ah but vitrolic flames are more entertaining than melodramatic tear jerker farewells ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

not quite how you can be "wrong" about what you enjoy or not, she doent enjoy tandems because they are pretty much on an amusement ride (unless its a step to say AFP) what exactly is the tandem passenger doing for the TM? (other than paying his or her bills) what is the TM doing for the passenger? umm just EVERYTHING! tandem passengers are paying cargo. desire and ability are very important drive factors, but if you havent exited an aircraft with a parachute on YOUR back, so that you are the one person responsible for your fate.... well IMO your not a skydiver...yet, and that doesnt mean you cant be.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

hopefully i'll be in the air in a few hours... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

find your free bag yet?? i think its that blue thing in the lake... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

now that would be cool, but they need two katanas...rodenta swoop joust! ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

or just get a thicker skin...ethernet words should in no way affect who you are or what you do, or how you feel about yourself, why worry about what anyone says? its only entertainment... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i dont think it was marines..i was told it was GA NG ROTC cadets...same result however. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

they cant be listening! i have aluminum foil on my head! ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

my 02. until you have made a freefall jump where you are the sole person responsible for your survival, your still cargo "just along for the ride" after all does riding in a plane make you a pilot?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

this is a sort of distractor, as it depends how many jumps are being made every weekend. how many car accidents are there per day? how many boating fatalities per weekend? at some point you have to accept that large numbers of people (the more popular skydiving becomes or the more time spent at larger dz's) will have a number of accidents that are simply not attributable to lack of skil or trainingl.. the question is how many is acceptable? 1 landing injury per 100? per 1000? per 10K? have landing injuries over the last ten years increased out of proportion to total jumps made? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

what makes you believe your not? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

oh yeah...risk is nice, but the joy of freefall isnt in the risk, its in the flight.. move the planet and let me fly forever (no risk of impact if theres nothing to hit) and i would still step into the sky ever chance i could... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

How about the simple fact that the number of fatalities of a certain type in an experience group is growing, while the number of the same type of fatalities is much less in other experience groups? depends on how large that experience group is and how fast its growing in proportion to the fatality rate.. ie we need more numbers to draw a real conclusion. no what i'm trying to do is get a better grasp of the picture, so that we take the best course (ie most effective) not the easiest. if we have 10 fatalities out of 200 jumpers (with less than 500 jumps) flying high wingloadings ("ahead of the curve") thats one thing if we have 10 fatalities with 20000 jumpers flying "ahead of the curve" thats something else. We should have a better idea of how many people we are causing increased and possible unnessesary restrictions in order to save how many lives. Its important to accurately define the problem/question before looking for answers to it. people are making the claim that the current educational/peer preasure enviroment isnt working..how can you say that with any reliability when you cant tell me how many people are successfully flying "ahead of the curve"? you cant tell if any educational system is a failure unless you know the number of people that actuallly passed too...obviously some (many?) people have been flying ahead of the proposed BSR.. why did they succeed where others failed? is the difference in the DZ? the coaching? natural ability? better inital training? ongoing classes? "over the shoulder" instruction by buddies? what worked for everyone who wasnt an incident report? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

understand, however what i'm asking is how many people WOULD ( & would have affected before they were above the 500 jump #) this affect if it was enforced to everyone right now. how many people would now be required to prove that they can land the canopies they have been (and did) all along, inorder to possibly save the brain trusts who couldnt or didnt learn without it being a requirement. just looking at the numbers we have, we are not talking about a large number of fatalities and we dont have good injury numbers, i'm trying to quantify the "freedom' you'd curtail by 'inspecting' everyone whether they need it or not.. having an ST&A sign off isnt that large of an annoyance, but how many people would have had to have this done before? would the number of people asking affect who got signed off? how many people might be denied simply because of the volume of requests?? how much unnecessary (for those who can & did progress ahead of the curve without formal requirements) 'annoyance' and 'inconvenience' is a reduced fatality rate worth? there are alot more statistics that really need some measure before we can find the best answer,. I think we agree there is a problem, but it need better definition. Until you can answer the question about how many people are/have been successfully flying in the 'danger zone' you cant really say that a specific number of injuries is to many, or to few.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

isnt it? honestly with the data we have (very little) how many people are or have been flying canopies "ahead of the curve" without incident? or with 'random' incidents that could have happened under any wingloading.. i guess the thrust of the question is how many jumpers would be /would have been affected if this BSR was already in effect? how many successful jumps would be 'illegal' under the new standard, and how does that compare to injury/fatality rates? are there enough injuries that could have been conceivably prevented to justify "taking away" the canopy flights and time from everyone who can & did fly their canopy successfully "ahead of the curve"? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

most def..dusty is one awesome coach and wonderful dude. i miss tracking with him every chance we got.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Nioce, very nioce!! ordered online thrusday 6/19 shows up TODAY! 6/23..very very cool got my beer and off to the player i go... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

heal fast and well viiiiibesss come play in the blue skies soon.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Well, it was night and part of her lawsuit, according to the newspaper accounts, is that the area wasn't lit properly. So, I'm assuming she had never been there before during the day? cant tell from the article if she walked into the prop of the plane she got out of or another one?? still not much excuse for anyone whos been on an airfield once in their life not to know what moves aircraft around, day or night.. i guess theres no help for those that assume the loud spinning blades that kept you flying all day just disappear at night?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

is the "bridal window" where the wedding party hangs out to ensure the marriage has been consummated? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i think the TSAs efforts have very little to do with the fact that hasnt happened again, nor is anything they are doing really helping to prevent it either.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

6 am and the skies are clear overhead now...hopefully they stay that way, if the clouds stay away i'll be at the dz all day today.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.